Yet another point of view on the New Orleans disaster

[So]

Originally posted by: biostud
The only reason why it happened was because so many people are poor, that's something a real welfare state doesn't have.

It didn't come from their being poor, it came from them being told that they had the right to stuff they didn't earn.

If people came in an orderly fashion and took milk, eggs and bread, that's one thing. Hell, they could have even *gasp* left money for the things they took.

Smashing windows and stealing DVD players -- that's different.

Being poor shouldn't give you a lisence to pull others into poverty.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:beer: SampSon.

And proleteriat, you're not smart for using one of history's most famous quotes.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:roll:

Yes, did you?

I'm sorry I interrupted the circle jerk here.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:roll:

Yes, did you?

I'm sorry I interrupted the circle jerk here.

You always come in with an attitude. Hard to respect your opinion that way.

(edited for restraint)

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:beer: SampSon.

And proleteriat, you're not smart for using one of history's most famous quotes.

I didn't know one had to be a genious to use relatively simple quotes in context.

Retard.

It so perfectly describes all of you here that I had to post it.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:beer: SampSon.

And proleteriat, you're not smart for using one of history's most famous quotes.

I didn't know one had to be a genious to use relatively simple quotes in context.

Retard.

It so perfectly describes all of you here that I had to post it.

So, you believe that anyone who wants or needs anything, has a right to it?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:roll:

Yes, did you?

I'm sorry I interrupted the circle jerk here.

You always come in with an attitude. Hard to respect your opinion that way.

(edited for restraint)

So now its not that I didn't read the article, its that I've come in with an attitude.

Make up your mind.

I'm not looking for respect here, getting respect from the ATOT hive mind is hard to do.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:beer: SampSon.

And proleteriat, you're not smart for using one of history's most famous quotes.

I didn't know one had to be a genious to use relatively simple quotes in context.

Retard.

It so perfectly describes all of you here that I had to post it.

So, you believe that anyone who wants or needs anything, has a right to it?

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Stark
fema wasn't in new york for 72 hours after 9/11, yet you didn't hear about raping and looting in Manhattan.

New Orleans is famous for being a historical human cesspool similar to vegas. Baton Rouge wasn't far behind. Eliminate those two areas and the story is more about natural disaster and less about human depravity.

I talked to a guy yesterday who was down in Mississippi doing relief work. The devestation is worse than anything they're showing on TV. Hundreds of miles of flattened homes. Those people are the victims I want to help. Unfortunately the race-baiters and ratings-focused media don't want to tell those stories.

Yea, because ya know, the Twin Towers were the whole city, and when they were destroyed the entire city's infrastructure somehow miraculously fell apart as well.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So now its not that I didn't read the article, its that I've come in with an attitude.

Make up your mind.

I'm not looking for respect here, getting respect from the ATOT hive mind is hard to do.

You DO seem to have reading comprehension problems. If you check, I didn't accuse you of not reading the article. You seem to not grasp having talked to TWO different people here.

And I love how anyone who disagrees with your INDEPENEDANT, UNBIASED position, is an unthinking assface.

That's why I don't respect you. Because, every argument I've seen you enter into, you start out by attacking your opponent as stupid, because he doesn't see it your way from the start.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Stark
fema wasn't in new york for 72 hours after 9/11, yet you didn't hear about raping and looting in Manhattan.

New Orleans is famous for being a historical human cesspool similar to vegas. Baton Rouge wasn't far behind. Eliminate those two areas and the story is more about natural disaster and less about human depravity.

I talked to a guy yesterday who was down in Mississippi doing relief work. The devestation is worse than anything they're showing on TV. Hundreds of miles of flattened homes. Those people are the victims I want to help. Unfortunately the race-baiters and ratings-focused media don't want to tell those stories.

Yea, because ya know, the Twin Towers were the whole city, and when they were destroyed the entire city's infrastructure somehow miraculously fell apart as well.

You seem to not remember a cloud of dust and the entire south end of the city basically shutting down.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: biostud
The only reason why it happened was because so many people are poor, that's something a real welfare state doesn't have.

It didn't come from their being poor, it came from them being told that they had the right to stuff they didn't earn.

Who told them that? I'm pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing but they don't really have anything too loose do they? They were put in a situation where tehy had everything to win. It's pretty easy to stand on a moral high ground when you're well fed and have a nice life. I'm not saying what they did was right, just that they had life where surviving is more important than morality.

If people came in an orderly fashion and took milk, eggs and bread, that's one thing. Hell, they could have even *gasp* left money for the things they took.

*gasp* These people are the poorest of the poor, they have no money.

Being poor shouldn't give you a lisence to pull others into poverty.

It's about survival. Not that I think it's the best way of redistribute the money available in the society

We don't have any natural catastrophes in Europe of that scale so I can't say how people would have reacted over here. But the fact that it did happen in US, and that you don't have a economical welfare system that is anything close to what we have, makes it very hard to understand how it could be the welfare system (that is virtually non existant) that was the reason for looting.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So now its not that I didn't read the article, its that I've come in with an attitude.

Make up your mind.

I'm not looking for respect here, getting respect from the ATOT hive mind is hard to do.

You DO seem to have reading comprehension problems. If you check, I didn't accuse you of not reading the article. You seem to not grasp having talked to TWO different people here.

And I love how anyone who disagrees with your INDEPENEDANT, UNBIASED position, is an unthinking assface.

That's why I don't respect you. Because, every argument I've seen you enter into, you start out by attacking your opponent as stupid, because he doesn't see it your way from the start.

Are you ok?

You gave a beer to Sampson which pretty much means you agree with his post.

And it was actually yourself who began the 'intelligence' insults. Stop trying to twist things around here.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: biostud
The only reason why it happened was because so many people are poor, that's something a real welfare state doesn't have.

It didn't come from their being poor, it came from them being told that they had the right to stuff they didn't earn.

Who told them that? I'm pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing but they don't really have anything too loose do they? They were put in a situation where tehy had everything to win. It's pretty easy to stand on a moral high ground when you're well fed and have a nice life. I'm not saying what they did was right, just that they had life where surviving is more important than morality.
That's fine, so long as you don't pretend that because they had the need, what they did was right. If you admit that it was wrong to take, but they, being human, had a moment of weakness, that's different. They were told that they had the right to what was not theirs when the government took other people's money and gave it to them.

If people came in an orderly fashion and took milk, eggs and bread, that's one thing. Hell, they could have even *gasp* left money for the things they took.

*gasp* These people are the poorest of the poor, they have no money. Clearly, they had money, or they would have been looting BEFORE the storm

Being poor shouldn't give you a lisence to pull others into poverty.

It's about survival. Not that I think it's the best way of redistribute the money available in the society

We don't have any natural catastrophes in Europe of that scale so I can't say how people would have reacted over here. But the fact that it did happen in US, and that you don't have a economical welfare system that is anything close to what we have, makes it very hard to understand how it could the welfare system (that is virtually non existant) could be the reason for looting.

We do have welfare, it's not as pervasive as Europe, but we do have it, and these people were it's primarty users.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: biostud
The only reason why it happened was because so many people are poor, that's something a real welfare state doesn't have.

It didn't come from their being poor, it came from them being told that they had the right to stuff they didn't earn.

Who told them that? I'm pretty sure they knew exactly what they were doing but they don't really have anything too loose do they? They were put in a situation where tehy had everything to win. It's pretty easy to stand on a moral high ground when you're well fed and have a nice life. I'm not saying what they did was right, just that they had life where surviving is more important than morality.
That's fine, so long as you don't pretend that because they had the need, what they did was right. If you admit that it was wrong to take, but they, being human, had a moment of weakness, that's different. They were told that they had the right to what was not theirs when the government took other people's money and gave it to them.

If people came in an orderly fashion and took milk, eggs and bread, that's one thing. Hell, they could have even *gasp* left money for the things they took.

*gasp* These people are the poorest of the poor, they have no money. Clearly, they had money, or they would have been looting BEFORE the storm

Being poor shouldn't give you a lisence to pull others into poverty.

It's about survival. Not that I think it's the best way of redistribute the money available in the society

We don't have any natural catastrophes in Europe of that scale so I can't say how people would have reacted over here. But the fact that it did happen in US, and that you don't have a economical welfare system that is anything close to what we have, makes it very hard to understand how it could the welfare system (that is virtually non existant) could be the reason for looting.

We do have welfare, it's not as pervasive as Europe, but we do have it, and these people were it's primarty users.

Welfare has so many restrictions its not even funny. Why don't you get outside your hut pick up a modern book or two about welfare and read it and then come back here?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So now its not that I didn't read the article, its that I've come in with an attitude.

Make up your mind.

I'm not looking for respect here, getting respect from the ATOT hive mind is hard to do.

You DO seem to have reading comprehension problems. If you check, I didn't accuse you of not reading the article. You seem to not grasp having talked to TWO different people here.

And I love how anyone who disagrees with your INDEPENEDANT, UNBIASED position, is an unthinking assface.

That's why I don't respect you. Because, every argument I've seen you enter into, you start out by attacking your opponent as stupid, because he doesn't see it your way from the start.

Are you ok?

You gave a beer to Sampson which pretty much means you agree with his post.

And it was actually yourself who began the 'intelligence' insults. Stop trying to twist things around here.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad.

That counts as an insult in my book.

And because I agreed with much of his post doesn't mean I agreed with EVERY word. I agreed with the knee jerk reaction bit.

Now, stop with the personal attacks and make a coherent argument, please.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Welfare has so many restrictions its not even funny. Why don't you get outside your hut pick up a modern book or two about welfare and read it and then come back here?

Again, with the personal attacks, and simply asserting that you are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm not going to argue with you any further, until you learn what a persuasive argument really is.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat
So now its not that I didn't read the article, its that I've come in with an attitude.

Make up your mind.

I'm not looking for respect here, getting respect from the ATOT hive mind is hard to do.

You DO seem to have reading comprehension problems. If you check, I didn't accuse you of not reading the article. You seem to not grasp having talked to TWO different people here.

And I love how anyone who disagrees with your INDEPENEDANT, UNBIASED position, is an unthinking assface.

That's why I don't respect you. Because, every argument I've seen you enter into, you start out by attacking your opponent as stupid, because he doesn't see it your way from the start.

Are you ok?

You gave a beer to Sampson which pretty much means you agree with his post.

And it was actually yourself who began the 'intelligence' insults. Stop trying to twist things around here.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad.

That counts as an insult in my book.

And because I agreed with much of his post doesn't mean I agreed with EVERY word. I agreed with the knee jerk reaction bit.

Now, stop with the personal attacks and make a coherent argument, please.

His post was one line. Are you joking? "Much of his post"? There wasn't much of A post.

I've already put forth my argument, and if you read most of the threads here with an unbiased view you would find it to be quite true. This board is mostly populated by upper-class types with no concept of reality and very conservative views.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Welfare has so many restrictions its not even funny. Why don't you get outside your hut pick up a modern book or two about welfare and read it and then come back here?

Again, with the personal attacks, and simply asserting that you are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm not going to argue with you any further, until you learn what a persuasive argument really is.

:roll:

Whatever man I've long given up actually arguing here. Until my post and to some extent biostuds post there was no opposition to this very right-wing oriented essay. That just gives you a whiff of the atmosphere around here. I'm just ashamed that instead of worrying about why this city is so poor and racially divided, my fellow Americans are attacking some vague governmental program that really isn't even useful anymore.

The amount of money welfare recipients recieve has not changed since the 60's and has not been adjusted for inflation. Do you honestly think these people are living off of welfare?

From wikipedia:

In the United States, welfare refers more specifically to money paid by the government to persons who are in need of financial assistance, but who are unable to work, or whose circumstances mean the income they require for basic needs is in excess of their salary (e.g. tax credits for working mothers). The sum paid usually gives an income well below the poverty line, and it usually also has conditions attached, such as the need to prove one is searching for work or that there is some condition, such as a disability or obligation to care for children, that prevents them from working. In some cases recipients are forced to do work, and this is often known as workfare. Some kind of safety net provision of this kind is made in almost all developed countries.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: So
They were told that they had the right to what was not theirs when the government took other people's money and gave it to them.

I'm not sure if understand you right, but when did government take other peoples money? are you talking taxes? and using these money to use in a welfare system? or am I missing something?

Clearly, they had money, or they would have been looting BEFORE the storm

who say the didn't?
Basically the police would be able to stop them in any normal situation, but because of the chaos created by the storm the were given an "oppertunity".

We do have welfare, it's not as pervasive as Europe, but we do have it, and these people were it's primarty users.

It's the poorest people, if they're not to recieve the welfare would you give it to the richest?
One way to view welfare is to prevent stealing. If you have none whatsoever and as we know only communists countries have 0% un-emplyoment, then you must conclude that a certain percentage of a population are un-employed.
Now since they're un-empliyed the cannot earn money, but these people still need food as a bare minimum existance. A place to live and clothes would be nice too. So how do these people get money to live for?

Still I'm not trying to say that what's going on is fine, I'm just trying to view it from their stand. Trying to imagine what I would do if I didn't have my parents to help me get a good education and so on.

 

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: SampSon

Originally posted by: Proletariat
:roll:

Yea looting when the city is crumbling around you and you have no food and water is caused by welfare.

Maybe its the fact that most of these people have been living in poverty for centuries, maybe its because they feel abandoned because people come to their city every year to party but never see how horrible the situation really is. Maybe its the fact that people dying everywhere around them and no federal aid for 4 days has some effect on your psyche.

No, no this ATOT. You people are sad. You're all relatively well-off, coming from well-off families and you have the audacity to assume that you know anything about these people. Reminds me of the Marie Antoinette quote: "If they have no bread, let them eat cake!".

Did you actually read the article. Or just that knee jerk reaction thing again?

:roll:

Yes, did you?

I'm sorry I interrupted the circle jerk here.

Yes, I read the entire article.

The point is that the welfare community this country has created would be in the same situation had a disaster of that magnitude hit any area with a vast population of very poor people.
The welfare system propagates poverty. It's a huge problem in this country and no one wants to address it. They would rather just keep throwing money at it while doing nothing to actually solve the core issue.

The people are the core issue. Anyone in this country can up and bust their balls working their way into a decent life style. There is no need to be part of a welfare system, unless you put yourself there. Yes, there are extenuating circumstances that arise, and that is what the welfare system was designed for. It was not designed to support the life of poor families who figured out they get paid more if they have more children.

My family is far from well off. When my grandparents came here a handful of decades ago from europe they had -nothing-, not a penny to their name. They worked their asses off in order to make a life for them and their children. They arn't a rags to riches story by any means. They are a rags to working class family story.
I personally grew up poor. Never did my family go to the government for a hand out. They obtained second, third, even fourth jobs in order to make ends meet.

I then went out on my own with next to nothing, I busted and continue to bust my ass everyday in order to make my life. So please, save your asinine little "you're a rich kid and have no idea what it's like to be poor" assumptions.

In the end everything boils down to one thing, a person and their decision. The decision is usually to take some action in their life or not. The proverbial man and his mighty hand holding people down is a huge crock of bs at this point in this countries development.
Amazing how immigrants can come from all over the world, barely speak the language and create a life for themselves, and these people in this country have been here all along and can't do it. There is no one to blame but themselves and a system they run to.

 

[Vic]

The issue there is that Proletariat is the rich kid who has no idea what it's like to be poor. He agonizes over the plight of the poor while spending his trust fund.

 

[biostud]

Originally posted by: SampSon


My family is far from well off. When my grandparents came here a handful of decades ago from europe they had -nothing-, not a penny to their name. They worked their asses off in order to make a life for them and their children. They arn't a rags to riches story by any means. They are a rags to working class family story.
I personally grew up poor. Never did my family go to the government for a hand out. They obtained second, third, even fourth jobs in order to make ends meet.

The problem is that there're few and fewer of these jobs, they go to robots and cheap labor in asia. They would need "an edge" over those competitors.

There is no one to blame but themselves and a system they run to.

Growing up in are where hope is lost, and no-one does anything to inspire hope?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: biostud
Growing up in are where hope is lost, and no-one does anything to inspire hope?

What would you know about that? You live in an all-white self-proclaimed "Christian nation" with a queen and a state religion. Really. WTF makes you think you even have a clue? You don't.

 

The problem is that there're few and fewer of these jobs, they go to robots and cheap labor in asia. They would need "an edge" over those competitors.

Amazing how so many people pour into America and do just fine. One of the problems is that people refuse to do so many jobs. They think it's below them, or that it doesn't pay to their liking. Can't have any bling while working just above minimum wage, right? I truly feel for them.... heh.

Growing up in are where hope is lost, and no-one does anything to inspire hope?

Save the softie rhetoric for someone who doesn't see through that bs.
Hope is far from lost. What has been lost is effort. They feel entitled to things everyone else has, but won't lift a finger to get it.
If it was so bad, why do so many try to illegally immigrate to America in order to work?