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Yet another financial industry scandal - this time with extra Fed

duh? i thought this was old news.... yet you still don't think the federal reserve deserves protesting and dramatic changes?
 
Craig234 said:
I hadn't seen a thread on this, and planned to post the story, then saw this Jon Stewart bit that did very well at telling the story, so I'm going to go with that.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-december-1-2011/america-s-next-tarp-model

Watch the clip, and then comment.

Partial summary: Fed secretly creates $7.7 trillion to loan big banks at zero interest with the story it's to help the economy, banks buy treasuries with money and make interest.
Click to expand...

I hear this nonsense all the time. Borrowing from the Fed at the short term rate and buying Treasuries is NOT free money. You are exposed to risks at both the short and long end of the yield curve and can lose quite a bit of money with this trade.
 
Financial industry scams billions, yawn.

Ann Coulter shockingly says something idiotic, 127 replies and counting.
 
Craig, I just don't think this is new news. Wasn't this posted awhile ago? I'm pretty sure I've known about this for more than a couple weeks now.
 
But our overlords say we need the Fed! Surely they can't be wrong?

This is what happens when you give a private organization monopoly power to create legal tender notes.

We need to start transitioning out of this system of using these green promises for nothing to actual real money.

Until then, this is what you're gonna get.

Welcome to the age of central banking and fiat paper, the age of big government, corruption, debt, war, and inflation. Its only just begun too. You wanted big government, you got it.

Are you actually surprised?
 
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matt0611 said:
But our overlords say we need the Fed! Surely they can't be wrong?

This is what happens when you give a private organization monopoly power to create legal tender notes.

We need to start transitioning out of this system of using these green promises for nothing to actual real money.

Until then, this is what you're gonna get.

Welcome to the age of central banking and fiat paper, the age of big government, corruption, debt, war, and inflation. Its only just begun too. You wanted big government, you got it.
Click to expand...

fiat paper and central banking aren't the issues, it's the perversion of them in our current system that has led to issues. the human element generally fucks many a thing up.
 
bfdd said:
fiat paper and central banking aren't the issues, it's the perversion of them in our current system that has led to issues. the human element generally fucks many a thing up.
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It always will, that's why you don't have them in the first place IMO. You're never gonna have angels running things. Humans will never be able to resist counterfeiting money if its legalized and instutionalized for you, not gonna happen. This is the expected outcome.

Others will buy into their bullshit that we "need" them, its in their best interest for you to believe this, of course.

Do not question our overlords, this is all in your best interest, nothing to see here...
 
matt0611 said:
It always will, that's why you don't have them in the first place IMO. You're never gonna have angels running things. Humans will never be able to resist counterfeiting money if its legalized and instutionalized for you, not gonna happen. This is the expected outcome.

Others will buy into their bullshit that we "need" them, its in their best interest for you to believe this, of course.
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I don't see the problem with a fiat currency. For instance I think our current system with various tweaks to bring the Fed under Governmental control, an amendment which restricts the ability to print money would bring us most of the way there.
 
bfdd said:
I don't see the problem with a fiat currency. For instance I think our current system with various tweaks to bring the Fed under Governmental control, an amendment which restricts the ability to print money would bring us most of the way there.
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Will never happen, the whole point of fiat money is for the state to drain purchasing power away from its citizenry. You're welcome to try to limit it, but they will always find a way around.
 
the DRIZZLE said:
I hear this nonsense all the time. Borrowing from the Fed at the short term rate and buying Treasuries is NOT free money. You are exposed to risks at both the short and long end of the yield curve and can lose quite a bit of money with this trade.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that if you gave my German Shepard money at .01% that he could manage to make a decent profit.

For fucks sake, if you can't make money when someone is loaning you essentially free money you are in the way wrong line of work.
 
DucatiMonster696 said:
Suddenly that guy ====> Ron Paul talking about the abuses of the Federal Reserve doesn't sound all that crazy after all.
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I'm no fan of the people who are zealots about the fed like the it's the illuminati, but this does strengthen the case about problems with the fed.

I'd be more for a major review and overhaul if I didn't think that it was likely to be dominated by Wall Street and make it worse.
 
Craig234 said:
Financial industry scams billions, yawn.

Ann Coulter shockingly says something idiotic, 127 replies and counting.
Click to expand...

Ain't it really fucking sad that what you just said is the absolute truth.

We may disagree on a lot of things but if you and I could agree on how fucked up this is that just about everyone could. For some insane reason, we are both wrong.

Therefore I must go back to the hypothesis I have had for a few years now, we be fucked.
 
A thought on how to reform the discount window system: The Fed is allowed to set a reserve rate, and banks and other institutions bid, ala auction style, on the discounted money.
 
Darwin333 said:
I am pretty sure that if you gave my German Shepard money at .01% that he could manage to make a decent profit.

For fucks sake, if you can't make money when someone is loaning you essentially free money you are in the way wrong line of work.
Click to expand...

MORE meat commodity investments, Fido?
 
Brigandier said:
A thought on how to reform the discount window system: The Fed is allowed to set a reserve rate, and banks and other institutions bid, ala auction style, on the discounted money.
Click to expand...

That sounds worth discussing, the first thing though is discussing how to have any good policies have a chance. That's a political corruption issue.
 
matt0611 said:
Will never happen, the whole point of fiat money is for the state to drain purchasing power away from its citizenry. You're welcome to try to limit it, but they will always find a way around.
Click to expand...

i disagree, but whatevs. the only thing we have to argue on is the fact that people have been fucking over fiat currencies since forever and it's never been to the fault of the fiat currency. just like communism isn't all bad or capitalism, people have perverted them. gold isn't any better a standard. central banking and fiat currency are not the problems, the problem is we've allowed them to be taken control of by people, who have fault, and removed any fear from their hearts for screwing with the masses. this has to do with the common man being more sedated and being told we can peacefully resolve things throughout the years. Peaceful protests simply allow those "in charge" the time to come up with a plan to deceive for longer, lopping off heads makes them come back down to reality.
 
Darwin333 said:
I am pretty sure that if you gave my German Shepard money at .01% that he could manage to make a decent profit.

For fucks sake, if you can't make money when someone is loaning you essentially free money you are in the way wrong line of work.
Click to expand...

It's .01% for a term of one day to several weeks. The Fed could make the rate anything they want tomorrow or not lend it all. You are also going to have to post collateral at the Fed.
 
I have a 0 interest loan coming in a couple weeks, I'll let you guys know how much money I'm capable of making off of it.
 
Craig234 said:
That sounds worth discussing, the first thing though is discussing how to have any good policies have a chance. That's a political corruption issue.
Click to expand...

I have no clue how to introduce rational discussion into political discourse, and that seems to be the major problem with the political system of today.

I too saw this on TDS last night, and I laughed to stop myself from crying. A drug dealer that has a pound or two of dope($2-5k) goes to prison, and institutions defrauding the entire country for billions, gets trillions more. I cannot wrap my tiny primate brain around that.

Richard Bronson, who was on Colbert Report last night, made a great point about companies needing to be responsible, and how Virgin reinvests its profits into new ventures and technology. This only works because the principal agent of Virgin, Sir Rich, doesn't want more money, but there has to be a way to create incentives for long term investment for ordinary corporations.

Until people can talk calmly, with a solution in sight, corporate greed will continue to win out by default.
 
Brigandier said:
I have no clue how to introduce rational discussion into political discourse, and that seems to be the major problem with the political system of today.

I too saw this on TDS last night, and I laughed to stop myself from crying. A drug dealer that has a pound or two of dope($2-5k) goes to prison, and institutions defrauding the entire country for billions, gets trillions more. I cannot wrap my tiny primate brain around that.

Richard Bronson, who was on Colbert Report last night, made a great point about companies needing to be responsible, and how Virgin reinvests its profits into new ventures and technology. This only works because the principal agent of Virgin, Sir Rich, doesn't want more money, but there has to be a way to create incentives for long term investment for ordinary corporations.

Until people can talk calmly, with a solution in sight, corporate greed will continue to win out by default.
Click to expand...

There is. The problem is:

Concentrated money can buy marketing and publicity that overwhelms other things in the marketplace of opinion. Bad policies outsell good policies because of it.

Consider this election, where a 'rational discussion' might see a lot of merit to, say, John Huntsman over a Romney or Gingrich (or Cain).

But the money publicizes the others enough that they get the votes. It doesn't really matter 'how good' Huntsman is.

On the Democratic side, it's not a coincidence that Obama was the annointed one of Wall Street last election, his biggest private donor Goldman Sachs.

Howard Dean didn't get that kind of support in 2004. Didn't go well.

The way it's supposed to work more is that the people prefer better policies and elect people who pass regulations that create the incentives you mention.

But it doesn't happen when money dedicated to special interests dominates the elections.

We have whole industries around propaganda (think tanks, commentators) and media (Fox News being the most obvious) and it's a multi-billion dollar industry.

This is not the democracy our founding fathers were trying to make.

It's more the undoing of democracy, defeating the people getting what's in their interest, while preserving the facade of democracy.

And not to exaggerate, it's not just a facade - things could be a lot worse, there are still some democratic pressures on policies, the people still have some representation.

But Branson is not a solution, he's an anolomy, someone who bucks the system, which is nice but won't help the larger issues.

Save234
 
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Craig234 said:
There is. The problem is:

Concentrated money can buy marketing and publicity that overwhelms other things in the marketplace of opinion. Bad policies outsell good policies because of it.

Consider this election, where a 'rational discussion' might see a lot of merit to, say, John Huntsman over a Romney or Gingrich (or Cain).

But the money publicizes the others enough that they get the votes. It doesn't really matter 'how good' Huntsman is.

On the Democratic side, it's not a coincidence that Obama was the annointed one of Wall Street last election, his biggest private donor Goldman Sachs.

Howard Dean didn't get that kind of support in 2004. Didn't go well.

The way it's supposed to work more is that the people prefer better policies and elect people who pass regulations that create the incentives you mention.

But it doesn't happen when money dedicated to special interests dominates the elections.

We have whole industries around propaganda (think tanks, commentators) and media (Fox News being the most obvious) and it's a multi-billion dollar industry.

This is not the democracy our founding fathers were trying to make.

Save234
Click to expand...

Previously, I have been a devout Objectivist, and did not levy any concerns about the big-business advantage. Lately, however, I have begun to see how mega-corps(any corp that has a decent board interlock with another) manipulate news and information in a way that always supports them. A mainstream Dem and a mainstream Repub may differ on a few issues, but much like the boards of corporations, their overriding interests are for the proliferation of concentrated wealth. The issues are either framed in such a way that if you are against it or for it, you still put wealth in the fattened pockets of the elite, OR the issue is a social issue, where you are either for freedom or against it(Gay marriage, abortion, etc).

I have realized the capitalist I love is a dying breed, and each day the system is stacked more and more against the little guy(real little guy, someone making 20k-50k) that has dreams and aspirations outside of the societal norm. I also realize that the love for that true capitalist has been twisted and distorted by right-wing propaganda for the last 60 years. I have been systemically conditioned to see "successful" business people as the lords of men, regardless of the fact that 99% have come from families with more wealth than my entire family tree.
 
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