Yet another build check request

[Zuddud]

OK, after getting some feedback here and elsewhere, I've finally made the decision on what to get.

Budget: <$600
Overclocking: NO
Purpose: Oblivion, NFS:MW, BF2142, Video Playback, Surfing, some video conversion (DIVX->DVD). Will use for 3-5yrs.
Existing Gear: WD 7200RPM HD, Sony DVD-RW, both IDE, good case with front and rear 120mm fans and a side vent. (Will use on-board sound; headphones only.)
OS: XP-SP2 (at least until SP1-2 for Vista)

Planned purchase:

GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 GeForce 6100 ATX - $79.99
Athlon 64 X2 4200+(65W) Windsor 2.2GHz (using stock fan) - $102.99
Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2-800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel - $108.49
SAPPHIRE 100186L Radeon X1950XT 256MB PCI Express x16 - $189.99
Antec True Power Trio TP3-550 550W PSU - $94.99

Total (not incl tax/shipping): $576.45

My main concerns are RAM and PSU. I'm pretty sold on the other components. Since I won't be overclocking, I don't see the value in going Intel and I'm more comfortable going with a older/more established chipset in the 6100/430. At the moment there don't seem to be any significant advantages with the 550 chipsets. Same goes for DX10.

The main questions:
1) Will this PSU power this RIG (especially the 1950xt)? Is it overkill? Is it not enough? Is there a better PSU in the same price range? (Don't want to go over $100 on PSU if possible.)
2) Is the RAM right for this rig and my needs? Should I go higher voltage? Different brand? Lower speed?

THANKS!!!

 

[conlan]

Looks good...except, why run a Mobo w/ onboard Video and an X1950XT?

 

[Boyo]

The PSU is fine. It will run your system just fine, and your RAM choice is a good one too. BUt I agree to go for a sound card...especially if you're a gamer.

 

[jkresh]

you can probably (almost definitely) get a better deal on ddr2 800 then that kingston (especially if rebates are ok), check the hot deals forum.
If you can find a way to spend around $100 more, you can get an 8800gts 640 (even less for the 320) which will definitely be useful in the long term (since you said you want 3-5 years out of the system a dx10 card for just a little bit more then the x1950 would be advisable).

 

[Zuddud]

Originally posted by: conlan
Looks good...except, why run a Mobo w/ onboard Video and an X1950XT?

On-board sound yes, video, no. I'll disable the onboard video on first boot.

As far as sound goes, since I have no speakers and only a $50 set of headphones, I didn't see the need for a discrete sound card. I'm currently using my Abit NF7s (nforce2) on-board sound and haven't had any complaints. I'm sure if I was using speakers it would be different.

That said, I wouldn't want to spend over MAYBE $50 for sound, and am pretty hesitant to even do that with headphone use only. Would there be enough of an improvement to justify it?

Originally posted by: jkresh
you can probably (almost definitely) get a better deal on ddr2 800 then that kingston (especially if rebates are ok), check the hot deals forum.
If you can find a way to spend around $100 more, you can get an 8800gts 640 (even less for the 320) which will definitely be useful in the long term (since you said you want 3-5 years out of the system a dx10 card for just a little bit more then the x1950 would be advisable).

As far as the video goes, if I find myself in dire need of DX10 in a few years, I'm sure I can upgrade. Right now the cost doesn't seem justifiable. $200 max for a video card. Besides, I don't tend to be on the edge of gaming. As long as I can run the game comfortably I'm ok. I mean, until I saw my wife's 7600GT running Oblivion I was perfectly happy with my Radeon 9600 128mb. I never knew a game could look that good and she's running at 800x600. It's going to look fantastic at 1280x1024 with this 1950xt!!!

I've seen cheaper RAM, that's for sure, but I'm not that solid on brand quality. At 1.8v everyone pointed me to Kingston ValueRam as being the most reliable. Thoughts?

Originally posted by: boyo
The PSU is fine. It will run your system just fine

So the PSU wouldn't be overkill? I've never really spent more than about $50 on a PSU...but that was quite a few years ago. These processors and video cards really eat the amps. I had originally planned on going with this FSP AX450-PN but I got the impression the 1950xt would kill it quick. Or vice-versa.

Keep the comments coming guys! I've built every system over the last 8 years or so based on Anandtech forum recommendations and haven't been steered wrong yet!

 

[Blain]

Very "entry level"... 3.75 out of 10

 

[Zuddud]

LOL...at my budget and with no overclocking, "entry level" is about right. ;-)

 

[jpeyton]

For under $600, I like this a lot better (especially if you're planning on gaming with it for 3 years).

Core 2 Duo E2160 Retail - $99

ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA - $60

Wintec 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 - $60

PNY GeForce 8800GTS 320MB - $270

XClio GoodPower 500W PSU - $50

Total: $539 plus shipping/tax.

 

[Zuddud]

I'd agree IF I was overclocking, which I'm not.

Without overclocking, I don't see the advantage other than the video card. Besides, if going Intel instead of AMD, I see no reason for it unless you overclock or get the 4MB L2 cache. At that point, price becomes the overriding issue. And again, high res top of the line gaming performance is not critical.

Am I wrong? (Because I do that a LOT.)

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zuddud
I'd agree IF I was overclocking, which I'm not.

Even if you don't overclock, the following is true in gaming:

1.8GHz Core 2 Duo + 8800GTS > 2.2GHz Athlon X2 + X1950XT.

The slower clockspeed disadvantage of the Core 2 Duo is also diminished by the fact that it's faster clock-for-clock than the Athlon X2 in things like video encoding.

 

[Zuddud]

Interesting. Do you know of a good benchmark comparison that would show these CPU's lined up? I've only found what's at Tom's and they only list a few of the Core 2's.

I didn't even know there was such a thing as a 2160. Which shows you what I know.

 

[tigersty1e]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
For under $600, I like this a lot better (especially if you're planning on gaming with it for 3 years).

Core 2 Duo E2160 Retail - $99

ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA - $60

Wintec 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 - $60

PNY GeForce 8800GTS 320MB - $270

XClio GoodPower 500W PSU - $50

Total: $539 plus shipping/tax.

Yeah. I would get this. Maybe not the Asrock board (disclaimer: I own one of these) If you're gonna get a pcie card, then get a more capable board.

Overclocking is so easy with the stock fans and such.

 

[Zuddud]

I can't even find the E2160 on Intel's site. I assume it's a generation or two older?

 

[Skeeedunt]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Even if you don't overclock, the following is true in gaming:

1.8GHz Core 2 Duo + 8800GTS > 2.2GHz Athlon X2 + X1950XT.

The slower clockspeed disadvantage of the Core 2 Duo is also diminished by the fact that it's faster clock-for-clock than the Athlon X2 in things like video encoding.

Sounds like a winner.

Originally posted by: Zuddud
Interesting. Do you know of a good benchmark comparison that would show these CPU's lined up? I've only found what's at Tom's and they only list a few of the Core 2's.

I didn't even know there was such a thing as a 2160. Which shows you what I know.

I must be out of it too. e2160 = e4300 with only 1MB cache I guess? You can compare the 4200+ v.s. the e4300 (clocked the same as the 2160) here http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2903&p=6 They're about on par, whereas the 8800 > 1950.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Zuddud
I can't even find the E2160 on Intel's site. I assume it's a generation or two older?

It's brand new; Core 2 Duo with 1MB L2 (which doesn't make a difference in most tasks, and a small difference in a few).

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: tigersty1e

Originally posted by: jpeyton
For under $600, I like this a lot better (especially if you're planning on gaming with it for 3 years).

Core 2 Duo E2160 Retail - $99

ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA - $60

Wintec 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 - $60

PNY GeForce 8800GTS 320MB - $270

XClio GoodPower 500W PSU - $50

Total: $539 plus shipping/tax.

Yeah. I would get this. Maybe not the Asrock board (disclaimer: I own one of these) If you're gonna get a pcie card, then get a more capable board.

Overclocking is so easy with the stock fans and such.

He does have up to $600 to spend; could probably add spend more cash on a quality motherboard (I vote for a $95 Gigabyte 965P-DS3 from Newegg).

But the ASRock will handle everything at stock speeds without a problem (and he doesn't plan on overclocking). It also has 2x PATA for his existing drives.

 

[McCartney]

I agree shell out on the 8800 GTS

Loads better than the now dated x1950XT

AS for motherboard why not get a
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131032 for 35 dollars more?

I know it's really stretching it but this motehrboard is loads and loads better and it's bang for buck one of your better boards.

 

[Zuddud]

It looks like to me that the Intel vs AMD comparison here comes down to more brand loyalty. I've been an AMD guy for quite a while, so for me to hop to Intel I've got to see some MAJOR benefits. Without overclocking or getting a large L2 cache, I can't see Intel having that major of an advantage. A few points here and there, yes, but overall not substantial. Plus, if the 2140 has a smaller L2 than the 4300 then I just can't see it matching up very well with the AMD.

Man, you guys are 8800GTS freaks! I know it's a screamer, but I just can't justify it for the additional cost. I'm just not that hardcore of a gamer. If I were doing a lot FPS online or something I can see it, but as it is, I probably don't game more than a few hours a week. I'm having enough problems justifying $190 let alone $260.

As far as motherboard...I HATE ASUS. Period. They just really pissed me off on my last build. I'd rather go with Gigabyte, MSI, or A-bit. Besides that, I don't need SLI at all. One $200 video card is plenty, 2 is out of the question for my needs.

 

[jpeyton]

"Brand loyalty" isn't really a selling point around here.

If you're not a hardcore gamer, why even bother with an X1950XT? You can get a X1950Pro/GT for under $130.

Overall, your parts list as you have it currently is 'good'. Not 'great', but you'll be happy with it.

 

[Zuddud]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
"Brand loyalty" isn't really a selling point around here.

If you're not a hardcore gamer, why even bother with an X1950XT? You can get a X1950Pro/GT for under $130.

Overall, your parts list as you have it currently is 'good'. Not 'great', but you'll be happy with it.

I guess I'm just missing something on the comparison of the CPU's. I agree that in most cases the e4300 will beat a X2 4200+, but with a smaller L2 cache in the e2160, it's probably going to take enough of a performance hit to put it at the same level or lower than the X2 in most cases.

The XT was a consideration strictly because of the Sapphire rebate on that particular card. Otherwise I was thinking about the pro or an Nvidia card instead. Considering that will allow me to scale back the PSU a bit as well, I may have to give that more thought.

...and that is why I check in here before I buy. You guys always give me things to think about.

 

[McCartney]

I'd still say that a used e4300 or oem 4300 is a better option than an x2

even the 2120 is decent

am2 = dead end, atleast with a 775 interface you dont hinder your ability to upgrade down the road on the 775 core 2 duo chips

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: McCartney
I'd still say that a used e4300 or oem 4300 is a better option than an x2

even the 2120 is decent

am2 = dead end, atleast with a 775 interface you dont hinder your ability to upgrade down the road on the 775 core 2 duo chips

You're absolutely right about the E4300, but dead wrong about AM2.

Multiple sources (besides AMD) have confirmed that Socket AM2 will be supported through 2008/early 2009. Future CPUs in the Socket AM2+ and AM3 format will be backwards compatible in current AM2 motherboards; they just need a BIOS upgrade to work.

At the very least, this gives current AM2 motherboard owners the ability to upgrade to Agena-based Phenom X2/X4 CPUs coming in late 2007/early 2008.

 

[tigersty1e]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: tigersty1e

Originally posted by: jpeyton
For under $600, I like this a lot better (especially if you're planning on gaming with it for 3 years).

Core 2 Duo E2160 Retail - $99

ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA - $60

Wintec 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 - $60

PNY GeForce 8800GTS 320MB - $270

XClio GoodPower 500W PSU - $50

Total: $539 plus shipping/tax.

Yeah. I would get this. Maybe not the Asrock board (disclaimer: I own one of these) If you're gonna get a pcie card, then get a more capable board.

Overclocking is so easy with the stock fans and such.

He does have up to $600 to spend; could probably add spend more cash on a quality motherboard (I vote for a $95 Gigabyte 965P-DS3 from Newegg).

But the ASRock will handle everything at stock speeds without a problem (and he doesn't plan on overclocking). It also has 2x PATA for his existing drives.

yeah, except that the pcie is x4. I haven't seen benchmarks on the 8800 x4 vs x16, but word around here is that the x4 slot bottlenecks the 8800 significantly.

 

[Zuddud]

Alright, time for a new wrinkle or two:

MSI RX1950PRO-VT2D512E X1950PRO 512MB - $159.99
vs.
SAPPHIRE 100186L Radeon X1950XT 256MB - $189.99

Other than the lower price and more RAM, the MSI looks like a better made and better cooled card. Of course I could go with a 7900GS or a 256MB Pro to save even more. I'm really having a tough time with this part of the decision. The 1950 series are much better cards, but require a crapload of power. The 7900 series aren't nearly as fast in most apps, but suck down a lot less power.

To save a little cash, I think this ENERMAX EG495AX-VE FMA 485W PSU will do just fine for any of the cards at $79. I think that Truepower Trio 550w upthread might be overkill considering I won't be overclocking and that I have a pretty basic setup: Not a lot of drives or extra PCI cards.

And as far as Intel vs. AMD, the difference just isn't significant enough to justify the "leap" to Intel for me. I wouldn't call it brand loyalty as much as...well...ok, it's brand loyalty. :roll: Mainly just for the fact that historically AMD always wins in the price/performance arena (without going with obscure vendors, open box, etc.). If price wasn't as critical an issue to me then I might go Intel, but I've always been and always will be very budget minded. No question, Intel's chips are a little faster, but it's just not that dramatic. In addition, I still believe in the long run that AMD will become the price/performance leader again. At least I'm willing to take that chance for now.

 

[gneGne]

As I read you would like to use your computer for DVD/video playback. So I was thinking about maybe considering the 8600x series?