Yet another ACORN voter fraud attempt

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Sure is a nasty web of lazy and dishonest "temps"...

Oooh! It's a "web" now!?! OMG, it's a CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!! :tinfoil;

ROFLMAO!

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Mani
Do you really want to get into a partisan pissing match on voter fraud? The republicans have that market pretty much cornered.

Proof? Links? Anyone ever been convicted? If you got the goods, lay them out on the table.

Too many to list, but start with this one. Plenty in it but pay attention to the exit pollster who "hates democrats" that found a 1 in 600,000 chance that the polls could have been so wrong. Here's an exact quote from him:

When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.'

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence. :roll:

So because POLLS were wrong, there was fraud? Because the MSM got caught AGAIN with it's pants down, it has to be fraud? That's it? No shit that the polls will be wrong in battleground states, the MSM was bending the polls to Kerry's advantage to help him win. Sounds far fetched? No more than an article from Rolling Stone having ANY credibility whatsoever.

Just in case you need it reinforced, some kook's conspiracy theory pblished in Rolling Stone doesnt even have a whif of proof. Try again.

How did i just know someone would come back with "EVIL LIBERAL MEDIA"!

I swear you guys are all the same. Blame the media, shoot down the source, and provide absolutely no credible evidence to the contrary.

What's really priceless is you calling this article a conspiracy while saying the media (including Fox News) was involved in a conspiracy to rig the exit polls to Kerry's advantage. :laugh:

What is this, proving a negative? You gotta show me PROOF, not just speculation, if you want me to waste my time looking for material to refute it. Right now, all I have to refute is your lunatic conspiracy bullcrap. Hell, Mel Gibson had more evidence tha NASA was creating earthquakes from SPACE (movie Consipiracy Theory) than you have that there was Republican voter fraud in the 2004 election.

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Good to see you've already tried and convicted ACORN, even though there's nothing in the story to suggest they are responsible for wrongdoing (as opposed, for example, to the people they're helping to register). I'm sure they're a bunch of slimy communists anyway, what with helping poor people exercise their right to vote.

But hey, speaking of Michigan voter fraud, there's also this story:

Lose your house, lose your vote

Michigan Republicans plan to foreclose African-American voters

The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP?s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.

?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses,? party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.

[ ... Remainder trimmed ... ]

Typical RNC slime. Lie, cheat, and steal, anything to win an election. It's in this thread.

Bowfinger's claims have been proven to be false in the very thread he used as an excuse to divert attention away from this thread.

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Did you think Clinton was proven innocent as soon as he stood up and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"? Yeah, somehow I didn't think so. Yet you view this story through your partisan blinders and immediately conclude it is "proven false" just because the GOP says so. How naive. If every story in P&N were considered "proven false" as soon as someone denied it, pretty much every thread would consist of exactly two posts.

In any case, The Michigan Messenger has issued a rebuttal of its own. It stands by its story:

Messenger rejects GOP plea for retraction
By Jefferson Morley 9/12/08 5:43 PM

The Michigan Republican Party is demanding, via press release, a retraction of the Michigan Messenger story ?Lose your house, lose your vote.?

In the article, Macomb County Republican Party chairman James Carabelli was quoted as saying, ?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses.?

Carabelli contends the quotes as reported by Eartha Jane Melzer were ?fabricated.? State Republican chairman Saul Anuzis charges the story is a ?complete fabrication.?

The story will not be retracted because Carabelli?s and Anuzis? claims are without merit. The quotes were accurately reported. Melzer, the Michigan Messenger and the Center for Independent Media stand behind this story 100 percent.

It is worth noting that Carabelli and Anuzis have yet to send the demand for a retraction to Melzer, the Messenger?s editors or the Center for Independent Media. To make such a far-fetched charge to other media outlets but not to us suggests that their motivation may be more political than factual.

The facts are these:

On Monday afternoon, Eartha Melzer called the Macomb County Republican Party as part of her coverage of preparations for Election Day in Michigan.

Melzer was put in touch with Carabelli and spoke with him around 4 p.m.

Her notes show that she asked him about plans to have election challengers at the polls on Election Day. As they spoke, she typed a question about Republican voter challengers: ?How will they know if the addresses match? How will you know which addresses to check??

Her notes show that Carabelli responded, ?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses.?

Melzer?s notes then show she asked a follow-up question: ?How will you know people are who they say they are??

Carabelli responded, ?I would rather not tell you all the things we are doing.?

Eartha Melzer is a prize-winning journalist. Her string of investigative reports on Sovereign Deed, a private security firm whose founder faked a military record in order to get tax breaks from the state, won honorable mention for the National Press Club?s 2008 Sandy Hume award given for excellence in political journalism.

I edited Melzer?s article. I have been a Washington journalist for 28 years. From 1992 to 2007, I was an editor and reporter for the Sunday Outlook section, the Style section and the Metro Section of the Washington Post, as well as an editor and columnist for washingtonpost.com. Needless to say, I have never reported, edited or published a story that included fabricated quotes.

We are not partisans of the Democratic Party, as alleged in the press release. Case in point: When Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a liberal Democrat, arranged tax breaks for Sovereign Deed, our coverage was critical. As a nonprofit, nonpartisan news organization, we do not favor any party. We favor accountability.

Carabelli?s and Anuzis? unsupported insinuations are unfortunate. We hope they will be withdrawn when the heat of the moment passes.

As for Anuzis? assertion that ?There is no such plan [to use foreclosure lists to challenge voters], and there never will be such a plan,? we hope this is true.

If the Michigan Republican Party truly has no plans to challenge voters based on foreclosure addresses, we are happy to hear it. We agree there is no place for such voter suppression tactics in Michigan or any other state in 2008.

As Ronald Reagan said, ?Trust but verify.? We trust Anuzis? new position, and we will verify it in the weeks to come.

In short, while the story is certainly in question, it has equally certainly not been "proven false."

Let's put aside that people shouldnt be voting from foreclosed addresses... cause they DONT LIVE THERE ANYMORE. What is your point being? Laws broken? Convicctions? Guilty pleas? Anything? Or just more of your pinhead "logic?" Does this diminish the fact that there is a clear pattern of fraud on the part of ACORN employees and at BEST total incompetent on the part of ACORN management and, more than likely, an informal approval by looking the other way? No? Does this change the fact that this is where Barack "The Lord" Obama did his "community orgainizing" bullshit?

Go ahead... deflect and divert. Just makes you look like a typical liberal hack.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
What is this, proving a negative? You gotta show me PROOF, not just speculation, if you want me to waste my time looking for material to refute it. Right now, all I have to refute is your lunatic conspiracy bullcrap. Hell, Mel Gibson had more evidence tha NASA was creating earthquakes from SPACE (movie Consipiracy Theory) than you have that there was Republican voter fraud in the 2004 election.

If you actually had an open and fair mind, you would find there is overwhelming evidence of GOP election shenanigans in precincts all over the U.S., especially in those key battleground states that made the difference. Certainly, there were also occasional examples of Democratic dirty tricks, but they were dwarfed by those on the right.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: BowfingerThere you go again, making assertions not supported by the evidence you've offered. How do you know they've done nothing? Have you ever tried to run an organization of that size? Do you have any management experience at all? I certainly do, and I can tell you they face a difficult challenge with the resources they have. That doesn't mean they aren't trying. It just means they are not yet 100% successful ... nor will they ever be.

You mean the reality that many minimum-wage temps are lazy and dishonest? No shit? Wow, that revelation must surely put you in the running for a Nobel prize in something. (Do they have Nobel prizes for discovering the blindingly obvious?)

Does ACORN need to do a better job? Absolutely. I firmly believe, however, that a reasonable non-partisan would recognize this problem is likely due to the low quality of the people ACORN can afford to hire rather than immediately screeching about corruption. God knows you've been consistently willing to blame the wide spread pattern of BushCo problems on incompetence rather than corruption, in spite of the fact Bush could pick some of the best and brightest people in the country to work for him, at salaries well above minimum wage. If BushCo can't get its act together, why do you demand so much more of ACORN?

Stupid isnt illegal... yet ACORN thugs have pleaded guilty and been convicted in multiple states... and it looks like they are up to it again this year.

But I am sure it is just bad management...

Excuse me, but as I've already pointed out, your links don't support your claims. From the links you provided, exactly one ACORN temp pleaded guilty and was given probation. That story explicitly stated there was no indication this employee acted with any partisan motivation, merely dishonest and lazy. There is nothing in your links suggesting ACORN as an organization has engaged in any intentional voter registration fraud.

Those are the facts based on the links you provided. If you have something more, by all means produce it. Otherwise, you're just blowing partisan smoke.

 

[Bowfinger]

Sorry guys, no more time to play this morning. I need to get to the office before I wind up as an ACORN temp. You probably wouldn't want that, huh?

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
[Uhh... hello? try actually reading what I post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^.
Do you not understand that fake registrations is FRAUD? What about the person who had their registration changed by one of these thugs? That isn't voter fraud to you? It's VOTER REGISTRATION. Anything fraudulent regarding the voting process is VOTER FRAUD.

MEh, people like you will likely never understand...(deleted union thug comment here)

Thugs? These lazy temps are thugs now? Good God, you've gone from drinking the Kool Aid to sucking it in through an IV.

You're right about one thing though. It is fraud, and it should be prosecuted. It is registration fraud, however, not voter fraud, which I believe was Jhhnn's point (if you'd "try actually reading what [others] post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^." If you can show that any of these phony registrations ever turned into votes, then you can talk about voter fraud. (And again, I agree, that should be prosecuted.)

What it also is NOT is proof that ACORN itself is corrupt, which was, of course, your original accusation. Can we assume you've stopped beating that dead horse?

Finally, you would have a lot more credibility if you put even one-tenth the energy and (feigned) outrage you've shown here into blasting the widespread, well-documented instances of various GOP operatives acting to commit voting fraud and disenfranchise certain classes of voters. Strangely enough, the only "fraud" that seems to draw your attention is this penny-ante stuff that might favor Democrats. I wonder why that is.

... from the same party that wants to know what the definition of "is" is, and that getting a hummer in the oval office isnt technically sex. Good on ya boy! At least you are consistent!

Again, for the 40th time... show me proof, convictions, guilty please, etc. to support your claims of Republican voter fraud. If it was that widespread, then SOMEONE should have been convictd or pleaded guilty by now... right? There should be SOME kind of lawsuit filed that made its way to trial and was decided... right? I mean we have that stuff on ACORN, and that is spotty, random stuff done by lazy employees... not a concerted effort. We have guilty pleas and convictions there... should be REALLY easy to nail the guys that have done it over and over, there is clear evidence that it was done, and therefore should be easily prosecuted and the people punished.... right?

No. All you have is the fact that you lost elections to prove there is voter fraud. Power is a liberal birthright. If you dont win, then there must be something wrong... the system doesnt work, there was fraud, etc. etc. I mean, when the 2004 election playbook says "hey, claim fraud and stuff when you dont win, even if it doenst exist," it becomes pretty damn clear.

 

[Jhhnn]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn




from Bowfinger-

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Not in the minds of the Faithful. The moment some repub talking head issues a denial, that's all the "proof" they need. Hell, when Dick Cheney made bogus claims wrt Iraq, they believe the claims and believe the denial all at the same time...

In a different era, the applicable term was "brainwashing"- today, it's "Faith based" thinking. Ever so much nicer, don't you think?

Take your diversions to a different thread.

To paraphrase CSG-

Uhh- wah! uh-waahhh! UUHHH-WWAAAHHH!

The whole "Voter Fraud" meme is just part and parcel of a broader initiative by repub operatives- vote suppression. To quote an old saying, it's lipstick on a pig. Too bad the Faithful only see the lipstick.

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
What is this, proving a negative? You gotta show me PROOF, not just speculation, if you want me to waste my time looking for material to refute it. Right now, all I have to refute is your lunatic conspiracy bullcrap. Hell, Mel Gibson had more evidence tha NASA was creating earthquakes from SPACE (movie Consipiracy Theory) than you have that there was Republican voter fraud in the 2004 election.

If you actually had an open and fair mind, you would find there is overwhelming evidence of GOP election shenanigans in precincts all over the U.S., especially in those key battleground states that made the difference. Certainly, there were also occasional examples of Democratic dirty tricks, but they were dwarfed by those on the right.

I am more than willing to have an open mind, but not so open my brain falls out. Bring me something more than basically, "Well, the polls SAID we should win, and since we didnt, then there must be fraud." Give me something official... an investigation, a lawsuit, court proceedings, a harshly worded letter from someone with an official capacity... ANYTHING.

Go to work, earn some money

 

[351Cleveland]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn




from Bowfinger-

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Not in the minds of the Faithful. The moment some repub talking head issues a denial, that's all the "proof" they need. Hell, when Dick Cheney made bogus claims wrt Iraq, they believe the claims and believe the denial all at the same time...

In a different era, the applicable term was "brainwashing"- today, it's "Faith based" thinking. Ever so much nicer, don't you think?

Take your diversions to a different thread.

To paraphrase CSG-

Uhh- wah! uh-waahhh! UUHHH-WWAAAHHH!

The whole "Voter Fraud" meme is just part and parcel of a broader initiative by repub operatives- vote suppression. To quote an old saying, it's lipstick on a pig. Too bad the Faithful only see the lipstick.

Should people be allowed to vote from addresses that they DONT live at anymore? It is a yes or no question. Really. Should I be able to vote from an address I no longer live at... regardless of the reason? I say no. I read the article from the Michigan "news" paper and that is what I see happening.

My guess... you wont answer that question. You cant. If you do, you effectively negate your ability to spread your bullshit. You will divert in any way you can.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
[Uhh... hello? try actually reading what I post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^.
Do you not understand that fake registrations is FRAUD? What about the person who had their registration changed by one of these thugs? That isn't voter fraud to you? It's VOTER REGISTRATION. Anything fraudulent regarding the voting process is VOTER FRAUD.

MEh, people like you will likely never understand...(deleted union thug comment here)

Thugs? These lazy temps are thugs now? Good God, you've gone from drinking the Kool Aid to sucking it in through an IV.

You're right about one thing though. It is fraud, and it should be prosecuted. It is registration fraud, however, not voter fraud, which I believe was Jhhnn's point (if you'd "try actually reading what [others] post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^." If you can show that any of these phony registrations ever turned into votes, then you can talk about voter fraud. (And again, I agree, that should be prosecuted.)

What it also is NOT is proof that ACORN itself is corrupt, which was, of course, your original accusation. Can we assume you've stopped beating that dead horse?

Finally, you would have a lot more credibility if you put even one-tenth the energy and (feigned) outrage you've shown here into blasting the widespread, well-documented instances of various GOP operatives acting to commit voting fraud and disenfranchise certain classes of voters. Strangely enough, the only "fraud" that seems to draw your attention is this penny-ante stuff that might favor Democrats. I wonder why that is.

:roll: Look at the OP again. Look at the title. This is about fraud. It most certainly is voter fraud when you fake registrations and change REAL voter's information(registration). But yes yes, we know your objective is to downplay the whole thing and suggest it's not a big deal. Typical libs BS...

If you wish to discuss what you think is GOP fraud - go for it - IN A DIFFERENT THREAD. This one is about ACORN.


Also, who brought up dem/Rep? Oh right... that'd be you and jhhnn. F'n trolls.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jhhnn




from Bowfinger-

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Not in the minds of the Faithful. The moment some repub talking head issues a denial, that's all the "proof" they need. Hell, when Dick Cheney made bogus claims wrt Iraq, they believe the claims and believe the denial all at the same time...

In a different era, the applicable term was "brainwashing"- today, it's "Faith based" thinking. Ever so much nicer, don't you think?

Take your diversions to a different thread.

To paraphrase CSG-

Uhh- wah! uh-waahhh! UUHHH-WWAAAHHH!

The whole "Voter Fraud" meme is just part and parcel of a broader initiative by repub operatives- vote suppression. To quote an old saying, it's lipstick on a pig. Too bad the Faithful only see the lipstick.

Uhh... a better paraphrase is "STOP TROLLING".

And no, your attempts to minimize this or divert to some conspiracy by Republicans is nothing but typical lib BS.


Try staying on topic please.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: winnar111
Who said voter fraud is confined to one political party?
If these people can do it, anyone else can, which is why we need to make sure John Smith of 100 main street is actually John Smith of 100 main street?

So three probable cases of voter fraud in six counties with a total population of over 3.5 million is a serious problem. Given 820,000 voters in those counties (if they voted at the same rate as the overall rate for the state), that gives you an approximate rate of 1 fraudulent vote per 273,000 votes, or less than 0.001%. I see the cause of your concern.


edit: late night math skills suck.

With elections being won at .01%, I'd agree. Especially when we don't know and have no way of knowing about the rest of the cases that potentially exist.

 

[Jhhnn]

Accusations of trolling from a master of the genre, CSG?

Read your own thread title-

Yet another ACORN voter fraud attempt

You've failed to establish any intent on the part of ACORN, at all, yet claim they're attempting fraud...

That's a *Classic Troll*, dear sir, and you've been called on it.

And then there's this, from Winnar111-

With elections being won at .01%, I'd agree. Especially when we don't know and have no way of knowing about the rest of the cases that potentially exist.

Boogeyman alert! Quick, check under the bed! Teh ebil libruhls are at it again!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Accusations of trolling from a master of the genre, CSG?

Read your own thread title-

Yet another ACORN voter fraud attempt

You've failed to establish any intent on the part of ACORN, at all, yet claim they're attempting fraud...

That's a *Classic Troll*, dear sir, and you've been called on it.

And then there's this, from Winnar111-

With elections being won at .01%, I'd agree. Especially when we don't know and have no way of knowing about the rest of the cases that potentially exist.

Boogeyman alert! Quick, check under the bed! Teh ebil libruhls are at it again!

Uhh... The title is factually correct. There has been plenty of evidence presented to support a rational opinion that it's institutional - not just some random/rogue employee. But whatever, stay blind like always...

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. "Factually correct", CSG?

You haven't supplied any facts at all- merely innuendo, supposition and accusations...

"plenty of evidence presented to support a rational opinion that it's institutional" isn't a statement of "fact", but rather of rancid and jaundiced opinion masquerading behind an application of lipstick.

What shade will she be wearing today? Do you think a nice mauve would compliment her skintones, or would a deep pink be better?

We'll let you decide- she's your pig, after all...

 

[Mani]

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Mani

Originally posted by: 351Cleveland

Originally posted by: Mani
Do you really want to get into a partisan pissing match on voter fraud? The republicans have that market pretty much cornered.

Proof? Links? Anyone ever been convicted? If you got the goods, lay them out on the table.

Too many to list, but start with this one. Plenty in it but pay attention to the exit pollster who "hates democrats" that found a 1 in 600,000 chance that the polls could have been so wrong. Here's an exact quote from him:

When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.'

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence. :roll:

So because POLLS were wrong, there was fraud? Because the MSM got caught AGAIN with it's pants down, it has to be fraud? That's it? No shit that the polls will be wrong in battleground states, the MSM was bending the polls to Kerry's advantage to help him win. Sounds far fetched? No more than an article from Rolling Stone having ANY credibility whatsoever.

Just in case you need it reinforced, some kook's conspiracy theory pblished in Rolling Stone doesnt even have a whif of proof. Try again.

How did i just know someone would come back with "EVIL LIBERAL MEDIA"!

I swear you guys are all the same. Blame the media, shoot down the source, and provide absolutely no credible evidence to the contrary.

What's really priceless is you calling this article a conspiracy while saying the media (including Fox News) was involved in a conspiracy to rig the exit polls to Kerry's advantage. :laugh:

What is this, proving a negative? You gotta show me PROOF, not just speculation, if you want me to waste my time looking for material to refute it. Right now, all I have to refute is your lunatic conspiracy bullcrap. Hell, Mel Gibson had more evidence tha NASA was creating earthquakes from SPACE (movie Consipiracy Theory) than you have that there was Republican voter fraud in the 2004 election.

Keep running away bud. Discredit the source, call it a conspiracy theory, then claim there's a massive media conspiracy fixing the polls. :laugh: I swear you are so predictable I could write your script for you.