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Yet again Obama screws the middle class

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Wait. Spidey returned to this thread, and still won't own up to being 100% wrong about the whole thing? Priceless.
 
Guys, you're probably thinking of the "median" not the "mean" which generally IS the average (aside from minor tweaks sometimes like tossing outliers).

Not as bad as spidey refusing to fix the OP which he now knows is completely wrong, but you're still making yourselves look bad.
 
DaveSimmons said:
Guys, you're probably thinking of the "median" not the "mean" which generally IS the average (aside from minor tweaks sometimes like tossing outliers).

Not as bad as spidey refusing to fix the OP which he now knows is completely wrong, but you're still making yourselves look bad.
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Obama is in fact screwing the middle class with all his tax increases he just signed into law. The fact that there is an income limit on middle class (that wasn't removed in ARRA) for this deduction can be considered screwing the middle class as well since it's technically correct.
 
DaveSimmons said:
Guys, you're probably thinking of the "median" not the "mean" which generally IS the average (aside from minor tweaks sometimes like tossing outliers).

Not as bad as spidey refusing to fix the OP which he now knows is completely wrong, but you're still making yourselves look bad.
Click to expand...

The word average is just a colloquialism for any number of different things.

The average of the set (1,2,3,4,6,8,10) is correctly represented as either 4, 4.8, or 3.8... it is just in rather poor form to not be specific.
 
spidey07 said:
Obama is in fact screwing the middle class with all his tax increases he just signed into law. The fact that there is an income limit on middle class (that wasn't removed in ARRA) for this deduction can be considered screwing the middle class as well since it's technically correct.
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Your OP is a misleading troll since it implies that Obama added this deduction limit, instead of just leaving Bush's deduction limit in place.

Your ending rhyme claims that "taxes rise" which is clearly false in this case. Taxes are exactly the same (in this case) as under Bush.

Attack Obama for valid increases like the coming bite on capital gains and dividends, but you look bad blaming him for Bush's taxes.
 
JS80 said:
lulz
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LOL Self-pwnage - it's the game everyone can play!

This is why we need the FairTax - government has no business picking winners and losers, setting one person against another, redistributing the wealth of one person's labor to another simply because they are uneven.
 
werepossum said:
LOL Self-pwnage - it's the game everyone can play!

This is why we need the FairTax - government has no business picking winners and losers, setting one person against another, redistributing the wealth of one person's labor to another simply because they are uneven.
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hahahahahah

...

*breath*

hahahahahahahahah

What a contradiction that is. I'm gonna go laugh so more.
 
I despise Politically Correct.
And mean & average are not always exactly the same thing. Though they should be.
Fucking mathematicians!
 
werepossum said:
LOL Self-pwnage - it's the game everyone can play!

This is why we need the FairTax - government has no business picking winners and losers, setting one person against another, redistributing the wealth of one person's labor to another simply because they are uneven.
Click to expand...

I agree, everyone should be required to pay $30,000 in taxes per year, no deductions possible. If they cannot, they get immediatedly deported and all their assets frozen and put back to the federal pot.

IMHO this would be the solution to 90% of our tax wows. Welfare would be unneeded except for those that are temporarily unemployed and have paid in their fair shares. They are limited to collecting only as much in taxes as they contributed though.
 
werepossum said:
Now at least I know who took Moonie's happy pills today. 😀
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I'd rather be Moonbeam than an anti-American. Seriously, I can't think of anything worse than intentionally changing the tax code to absolutely DEVASTATE the lower and middle classes.

The fact is that the FairTax is a huge burden for the working poor (who are much above poverty but living paycheck to paycheck). Because they are living paycheck to paycheck, they consume 100 percent of what they earn to survive and have no money left over for tax-free investments so they are literally in the 100% tax bracket. Because all of their earnings are used to pay bills (consumption) they are taxed by the FairTax at 100 percent. However the FairTax is a huge burden for the middle-class because they spend 80 percent of what they make in consumption (and have about 20 percent or less for tax-free investing), so they are literally in the 80 percent tax bracket. As you might have guessed, the FairTax is only a nuisance for the top one percent. Since they save and invest most of what they get, and can invest all of it tax-free under the FairTax, and also transfer wealth tax-free under the FairTax, they are literally in the 5% tax bracket.

Virtually all mainstream economists will tell you that consumption taxes are the most regressive taxes and hurt the working poor and the middle classes.

This doesn't didn't bring up the whole prebate thing. We are talking about what percentage of consumption is taxed, not individual dollar amounts. We are concerned with what percentage is left over and can be tax free. We are not going to distort this moment of clarity. The working poor, the middle class and the rich all get exactly $187 as a prebate so they all cancel each other out in this comparison.
 
TruePaige said:
I'd rather be Moonbeam than an anti-American. Seriously, I can't think of anything worse than intentionally changing the tax code to absolutely DEVASTATE the lower and middle classes.

The fact is that the FairTax is a huge burden for the working poor (who are much above poverty but living paycheck to paycheck). Because they are living paycheck to paycheck, they consume 100 percent of what they earn to survive and have no money left over for tax-free investments so they are literally in the 100% tax bracket. Because all of their earnings are used to pay bills (consumption) they are taxed by the FairTax at 100 percent. However the FairTax is a huge burden for the middle-class because they spend 80 percent of what they make in consumption (and have about 20 percent or less for tax-free investing), so they are literally in the 80 percent tax bracket. As you might have guessed, the FairTax is only a nuisance for the top one percent. Since they save and invest most of what they get, and can invest all of it tax-free under the FairTax, and also transfer wealth tax-free under the FairTax, they are literally in the 5% tax bracket.

Virtually all mainstream economists will tell you that consumption taxes are the most regressive taxes and hurt the working poor and the middle classes.

This doesn't didn't bring up the whole prebate thing. We are talking about what percentage of consumption is taxed, not individual dollar amounts. We are concerned with what percentage is left over and can be tax free. We are not going to distort this moment of clarity. The working poor, the middle class and the rich all get exactly $187 as a prebate so they all cancel each other out in this comparison.
Click to expand...

The working poor are by definition not much above the poverty line - that's what the poverty line is, the line at which you are considered poor. (Poverty - the state of being poor.) Those spending 100% of their paycheck are making a conscious decision to do so, but no one is being taxed at 100% or even 80% of income because of the prebate AND because the payroll taxes, which are quite regressive, go away. It's sad to think that anti-American now means to some people the notion that government might not control how much of your income you are allowed to keep and punish or reward you depending on how you choose to spend what government decides to leave you.
 
shortylickens said:
I despise Politically Correct.
And mean & average are not always exactly the same thing. Though they should be.
Fucking mathematicians!
Click to expand...

😛 we resent that.

Why would we need two words to describe the same thing? An average is not always mean.. but mean is always an average. Do you have a better word to describe the set of ways ones can take an 'average' since it is clear everyone wants to steal the meaning of that word 😛.

How about instead of using the word average I say "reducify" and you guys can keep average as a true synonym for arithmetic mean 😛. As mean is also a word to describe another set 😉. Isn't it grand!
 
werepossum said:
The working poor are by definition not much above the poverty line - that's what the poverty line is, the line at which you are considered poor. (Poverty - the state of being poor.) Those spending 100% of their paycheck are making a conscious decision to do so, but no one is being taxed at 100% or even 80% of income because of the prebate AND because the payroll taxes, which are quite regressive, go away. It's sad to think that anti-American now means to some people the notion that government might not control how much of your income you are allowed to keep and punish or reward you depending on how you choose to spend what government decides to leave you.
Click to expand...

The fairtax involves punishing the poor by definition!

It allows those with high disposable incomes to reap huge benefits without paying tax on them while the poor, who do not have this ability stagnate in wealth growth and it destroys the middle class.

If you can't see this you are blind. This is one of the subjects people should shut their hole on unless they have a basic knowledge of economics / finance / accounting because they just make themselves look dumb.

Fucking teabaggers.
 
TruePaige said:
The fairtax involves punishing the poor by definition!

It allows those with high disposable incomes to reap huge benefits without paying tax on them while the poor, who do not have this ability stagnate in wealth growth and it destroys the middle class.

If you can't see this you are blind. This is one of the subjects people should shut their hole on unless they have a basic knowledge of economics / finance / accounting because they just make themselves look dumb.

Fucking teabaggers.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm certainly not an economist, and had only taken a cursory look at what the Fairtax system really was about, so I asked an acquaintance once who teaches economics at a university about it and he laid out the huge burden it would place on the lower and middle classes. It was eye opening for me, and definitely another example of letting people who know what they're talking about make those decisions.
 
alkemyst said:
I agree, everyone should be required to pay $30,000 in taxes per year, no deductions possible. If they cannot, they get immediatedly deported and all their assets frozen and put back to the federal pot.

IMHO this would be the solution to 90% of our tax wows. Welfare would be unneeded except for those that are temporarily unemployed and have paid in their fair shares. They are limited to collecting only as much in taxes as they contributed though.
Click to expand...
My sarcasm meter is in the shop so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt with this one :\
 
Slick5150 said:
I agree. I'm certainly not an economist, and had only taken a cursory look at what the Fairtax system really was about, so I asked an acquaintance once who teaches economics at a university about it and he laid out the huge burden it would place on the lower and middle classes. It was eye opening for me, and definitely another example of letting people who know what they're talking about make those decisions.
Click to expand...

47% of America doesn't pay income taxes or get a tax credit. There is a huge burden being placed on the middle and upper classes right now.
 
Slick5150 said:
I agree. I'm certainly not an economist, and had only taken a cursory look at what the Fairtax system really was about, so I asked an acquaintance once who teaches economics at a university about it and he laid out the huge burden it would place on the lower and middle classes. It was eye opening for me, and definitely another example of letting people who know what they're talking about make those decisions.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

They try to wrap it in a nice "sounding" package to fool people into thinking "Yeah! We'll show those richies, we'll level the playing field!" but then when you look at what is really taxed and (more importantly) what IS NO LONGER TAXED it shows the true burden shifts primarily onto the middle class while still managing to further damage the lower class, only taking some of the burden off the true upper class.
 
Daedalus685 said:
😛 we resent that.

Why would we need two words to describe the same thing? An average is not always mean.. but mean is always an average. Do you have a better word to describe the set of ways ones can take an 'average' since it is clear everyone wants to steal the meaning of that word 😛.

How about instead of using the word average I say "reducify" and you guys can keep average as a true synonym for arithmetic mean 😛. As mean is also a word to describe another set 😉. Isn't it grand!
Click to expand...
Stop being so mean to the non-mathematicians
atotsmile.png
 
TruePaige said:
Exactly.

They try to wrap it in a nice "sounding" package to fool people into thinking "Yeah! We'll show those richies, we'll level the playing field!" but then when you look at what is really taxed and (more importantly) what IS NO LONGER TAXED it shows the true burden shifts primarily onto the middle class while still managing to further damage the lower class, only taking some of the burden off the true upper class.
Click to expand...

You could confiscate 100% of the income of the "rich" and still not be able to cover the deficits created under Obama.
 
We should base our economic policies on geometric mean. :downs:

I agree. I'm certainly not an economist, and had only taken a cursory look at what the Fairtax system really was about, so I asked an acquaintance once who teaches economics at a university about it and he laid out the huge burden it would place on the lower and middle classes. It was eye opening for me, and definitely another example of letting people who know what they're talking about make those decisions.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why people think the tax burden is mostly on poor people. This is the only reason they would ever want equal taxation. In reality it's the other way around. Something like the top 50% of earners pay 90% of the taxes. Poor people should probably never ask for equal taxation unless they're just trolling.
 
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