Yeesh IC Diamond 7 is some crazy stuff

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

This stuff etches the IHS pretty nicely. I scrubbed and scrubbed with IPA and it wans't residue. It just simply corroded the crap out of the IHS.

I took it to Micro center in hopes for an exchange because I wanted a better batch (mine is a total voltage hog, not even funny, can't even hit 4ghz) so I made up some crap about how it is unstable. The guy looked at it and went "HOLY CRAP what did you use?" I said AS5 instinctively but I was about to correct myself and say IC Diamond 7, but I didn't.

A quick google later on showed that this stuff does etch. He told me he had to test it and I could only exchange it if it didn't posted. I thought that was gonna blow all chances of me exchanging it. I was ready to resign and say I'll buy another one (and just sell this one off on forums/fleabay/CL), but he called me over and lectured me about how Intel won't take this back but he'll make an exception.

He clearly never plugged the CPU in and he just kept worrying about not being able to read the printed code on the CPU (it's not all etched away. hold it at an angle and you still can). But in the end he gave me a new CPU.

Holy crap. I'm not using IC Diamond 7 again... this stuff is crazy. Combined with pressure from a HS, I wonder what long term damage is. Those who studied materials science like me know that corrosion under stress can result in pitting. I'll stick to AS5 for my new CPU.

Maybe I'll order some AC MX-3 or something...

 

[richierich1212]

yep MX-3 is awesome.

 

[ZimZum]

Is it just abrasive or is it chemically corroding the metal?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Is it just abrasive or is it chemically corroding the metal?

Well I can't imagine that much abrasion in my 2 mounts that I did with my HSF. My heatspreader got completely discolored and there was a smaller quarter sized circle on the IHS from my previous first application where I used a rice sized (I come from AS5) droplet. I later put the pea sized drop which literally cakes the thing everywhere.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

yep MX-3 is awesome.

Is it hard to clean?

I don't even know why I'm asking this. Same with IC7. I shouldn't really care because I should never really be dismounting my HSF anyway... yet somehow I care. Maybe 10 years down the road I want a shiny i7 on my keychain. LOL.

 

[MJinZ]

It's diamond... aka carbon... what did you expect?

ICD7 or MX-3, both are fine. I prefer ICD7 or Shin Etsu.

 

[Rubycon]

Haha you think IC7 changes your heatspreader try Coollaboratory liquid metal pro!

The diamond dust in IC7 is a good abrasive given its Moh hardness rating of 10.

It will polish and make the IHS writing impossible to read in just one application and removal particularly if you rub it while the compound is still prevalent on the IHS.

Um I'd skip MX3. Lots of problems with latest batches.

Thermalright Chill Factor 2 is very good.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Hmm... I'm using IC Diamond on my two 920s. Maybe I should take a peek when I pull out the rig to dust it tomorrow.
+1 on the Chill Factor. Only slightly less effective than the most expensive TIMs and a helluva lot cheaper. Use it on all my OC'ed C2Ds.

 

[SHAQ]

MX3 takes awhile to spread out too. AS5 is as easy as it gets. I don't care if it is 1-2C warmer because of it.

 

[Ben90]

Thanks for raising prices for the rest of us for being a doucher and returning a perfectly working product.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Thanks for raising prices for the rest of us for being a doucher and returning a perfectly working product.

And lying about what TIM you used.

Return fraud is not acceptable in this forum.

 

[ICD7]

Note from the manufacturer

We have had much long term feed back from people with two years installs with no change in temps or issues with "etching"

The material components of IC Diamond are about as inert as you can get, otherwise the compound is comprised mostly of carbon (diamond/carbon black) with a couple % polymeric binders - which is not a basis for any chemical etching or corrosion I am aware of. A minor stain or oxidation may occur if contaminants from cleaning are not removed properly which can be removed in about 10 sec. with a dry cloth and a little IC Diamond.

We test on a mirror lapped die and sink @90-100 psi with high wattage (200 W) and have witnessed no "etching" despite tests running months at a time the surface finish it is unaffected.

 

[ZimZum]

Haha you think IC7 changes your heatspreader try Coollaboratory liquid metal pro!

I was going to use this for my next build. What does it do to the IHS?

 

[Meghan54]

Note from the manufacturer

We have had much long term feed back from people with two years installs with no change in temps or issues with "etching"

The material components of IC Diamond are about as inert as you can get, otherwise the compound is comprised mostly of carbon (diamond/carbon black) with a couple % polymeric binders - which is not a basis for any chemical etching or corrosion I am aware of. A minor stain or oxidation may occur if contaminants from cleaning are not removed properly which can be removed in about 10 sec. with a dry cloth and a little IC Diamond.

We test on a mirror lapped die and sink @90-100 psi with high wattage (200 W) and have witnessed no "etching" despite tests running months at a time the surface finish it is unaffected.

Odd.....there are quite a few people who've used IC7 with the same exact results as the OP has gotten.....abrasive enough in one application that it removed the writing from the cpu.

Of course, notice the "manufacturer's statement" only answers the "chemical etching or corrosion" question, but not the physical polishing properties of the diamond dust used in the TIM.

XS has reports all over on this.....

And this quote from Vapor's test of several TIM's, IC7 included:

It's also really good at polishing--as you can see from my pictures, the IHS of my CPU no longer has Intel's markings. I'm not a fan of that particular property of the TIM, but all things considered, IC Diamond isn't too bad. Between Indigo Xtreme, Shin-Etsu X23-7783D, and MX-2, I can't think of a situation where I'd have a use for IC Diamond, but it's definitely good paste overall.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232141




Now, why would Vapor have any reason to lie?

The answer is he doesn't.....he simply tests and lets the chips fall where they may. He didn't make up that comment....IC7 is abrasive and will polish your IHS, pure and simple.

 

[Duvie]

And lying about what TIM you used.

Return fraud is not acceptable in this forum.

I am sorry but I think I have to agree.....

 

[ICD7]

Odd.....there are quite a few people who've used IC7 with the same exact results as the OP has gotten.....abrasive enough in one application that it removed the writing from the cpu.

Of course, notice the "manufacturer's statement" only answers the "chemical etching or corrosion" question, but not the physical polishing properties of the diamond dust used in the TIM.

XS has reports all over on this.....

And this quote from Vapor's test of several TIM's, IC7 included:



http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232141




Now, why would Vapor have any reason to lie?

The answer is he doesn't.....he simply tests and lets the chips fall where they may. He didn't make up that comment....IC7 is abrasive and will polish your IHS, pure and simple.

Addressing a simple or basic point - Abrasives Have to move to work

Under pressure if you rotate the sink you might polish the high spots slightly otherwise it is static, not moving and abrasives have to move in order to work. You can do the same with ceramic or metal oxides thermal compounds as they work also as a good polishing agents being harder than than the IHS.

Take a piece of copper sheet that has a stock finish find some small imperfections/scratches and take some IC Diamond, a dry cloth and work at it a couple of hours trying to remove them - It's not going to happen, it will get shiny having removed a few microns of surface finish but that's it. It's like lapping with a 600 grit sand paper getting lazy and leaving a couple small scratches and then moving to a 1200 grit and an hour later you are back to the 600 grit because the 1200 wouldn't remove the scratches. You need a substantial motion to create an abrasion. The particle size is too small for major material removal. Polish might be a more accurate description than etching.

If you are rotating the sink on install trying to insure a good mount for performance while at the same time doing it multiple times in multiple test runs under pressure is the very definition of lapping and probably true with most pastes as they are abrasive also, diamond will cut faster - but in the normal course of use it has not been a problem and shouldn't be for most users.

Many household abrasives are interchangeable with thermal compounds like the well known toothpaste example they are mircronized particles similar in size and hardness to thermal compounds suspended in a fluid. Lapping compounds, metal polishes, bathroom cleaners, glass stove top cleaners all share this. This was my 14 year old daughter's first place science project in school this year to compare household abrasives to thermal compounds she even did the Land o lakes cheese test. Most were pretty good with one metal polish being as good as AS5 although I would not bank on the longevity.

This feed back is good and we will add an advisory to our troubleshooting webpage on frequent installs and moving the sink while under pressure to avoid any chance of polishing the laser lettering

 

[aigomorla]

This stuff etches the IHS pretty nicely. I scrubbed and scrubbed with IPA and it wans't residue. It just simply corroded the crap out of the IHS.

I took it to Micro center in hopes for an exchange because I wanted a better batch (mine is a total voltage hog, not even funny, can't even hit 4ghz) so I made up some crap about how it is unstable. The guy looked at it and went "HOLY CRAP what did you use?" I said AS5 instinctively but I was about to correct myself and say IC Diamond 7, but I didn't.

A quick google later on showed that this stuff does etch. He told me he had to test it and I could only exchange it if it didn't posted. I thought that was gonna blow all chances of me exchanging it. I was ready to resign and say I'll buy another one (and just sell this one off on forums/fleabay/CL), but he called me over and lectured me about how Intel won't take this back but he'll make an exception.

He clearly never plugged the CPU in and he just kept worrying about not being able to read the printed code on the CPU (it's not all etched away. hold it at an angle and you still can). But in the end he gave me a new CPU.

Holy crap. I'm not using IC Diamond 7 again... this stuff is crazy. Combined with pressure from a HS, I wonder what long term damage is. Those who studied materials science like me know that corrosion under stress can result in pitting. I'll stick to AS5 for my new CPU.

Maybe I'll order some AC MX-3 or something...

He's partially correct.

IF the cpu was OEM, it does not come with any paste, so you are required to get your own.
Intel isnt that super picky about the IHS, unless you lapped it, because the stock intel sink can even put a small dent it.

And Intel no longer just looks at the numbers etched on the cpu.
That is mostly for (YOU) when YOU need to call in.

Didnt u ever wonder what those funny little white boxes which look like bar code was?

Its a 2d tracker which can be read from a scanner.
So its easier to feed it though a said scanner and then record, then pay someone to write the numbers down on a computer.
Welcome to the 21st century..

 

[DrMrLordX]

Haha you think IC7 changes your heatspreader try Coollaboratory liquid metal pro!

I think Pro is officially discontinued in favor of Ultra, though Pro can still be found (and purchased) at numerous e-tailers.

Ultra will also diffuse into copper (and eventually nickel), and it's a bitch to remove it via lapping. Why, I'd almost say that all that lapping and re-lapping of a CPU is an invitation for metal shavings to get all over your CPU's pins!

. . .

*coughs*

But anyway, OP

1). Fraud sucks. Please stop.

2). If you think IC Diamond 7 will alter the IHS, you ain't seen nothin until you've tried Liquid Metal. It honestly made me think that part of the T-2000 was clinging to my IHS.

I was going to use this for my next build. What does it do to the IHS?

What doesn't it do?

First it diffuses into copper and nickel. It will change the color of the IHS and HSF make it nearly impossible to use any other TIM with either surface unless you remove the surface metal via lapping.

If it stays on there long enough, it can/will weld the base of the HSF to the IHS. Have fun removing that!

Seriously, Liquid Metal Pro is some awesome TIM (up there with Indigo Xtreme), but using it has consequences. Ultra is a little easier to work with, but not by much, and nobody knows if it can form a weld or not (yet).

Addressing a simple or basic point - Abrasives Have to move to work

I can think of at least two instances where IC Diamond 7 *might* (read: might) move enough to cause abrasion.

If someone tries the "grain of rice" method and uses the HSF to spread the paste, then the paste is going to "roll" over the surface of the IHS while spreading. A good bit of downward force is going to be behind that force as well.

If someone applies the paste by spreading it, then instead of it rolling out due to a downward pressure spreading it, it's going to roll out in front of whatever firm edge (credit card) is spreading it across the IHS.

Either way, it isn't going to be neatly deposited on the IHS . . . it's going to be spread with a good bit of force, especially considering how thick IC Diamond 7 can be. Perhaps the abrasive quality of the paste will be less notable if it is heated prior to application as some have recommended?

 

[Rubycon]

CLP; like solder, tins copper surfaces. It's best removed by using a paper towel first to pull excess liquid metal from the surface. A coffee filter with 90% isopropyl alcohol works. Once the cleaning cloth has no more dark spots then you move on to using the scrubbing pad they include with the product. With a lapped CPU you can use the scrubbing pad until the surface has a uniform (but still whitish metallic) appearance. Then switch to 1000-1500 sand paper on a flat surface to restore copper color completely. It's important to do this after EVERY application or you will NOT get the best temperatures and pitting is likely which will require more aggressive sanding with coarser sand paper.

On nickel plated heat sinks it can be removed with the scrubbing pad alone. If the heat sink base was lapped to bare copper it will require the same treatment as the cpu spreader above.

The initial application (of CLP) to the CPU definitely alters the surface enough to invalidate a warranty and can make the writing illegible!

I had no problems applying CLP with a foam tipped applicator which is used to clean the heads/drums of professional video tape recorders. I would NOT use a Q-tip as they can and will shed fibers! A finger in a rubber glove will work too as will a new toothbrush but I find the foam applicator works the best. NEVER should it be applied with the rice method! Also I don't recommend using it with a Venomous-X or TRUE unless you are absolutely sure the heat sink will NEVER be bumped! If it's moved you must remount or temps will suffer as a result. The Prolimatech Megahalems has a good positive locking mount that works will to prevent any kind of twisting movement.

As far as welding is concerned that's not going to happen since welding technically is the fusing of metals together to make one piece. I'm sure with both surfaces lapped you could get a decent fillet (think solder) that would hold it somewhat but when warm it will give easily. When removing the heatsink there was never a problem - it was just sitting there when the pressure was removed. Of course the base of mine are nickel. Lapping VX and Megahalems is actually bad and will create worse temps.

Finally when cleaning up using the scrubbing pad and/or sandpaper...

Yes you will have dust that's conductive! NEVER install the CPU without a thorough cleaning FIRST! ALWAYS wipe down with a cleaning cloth, starting with the IHS, all around the IHS, then the edge of the PCB. Use alcohol soaked coffee filter or similar and clean the entire area including the bottom! Repeat until the cloth is white. Installation and power up with this dust on the cpu is a good way to KILL your cpu!

Oh and so this post is not entirely a thread jack...

IC7 will scratch up the CPU IHS and heatsink base just on application using the grain method as someone already mentioned. Removal with a Q-tip soaked in solvent thins it out and you can hear the grit working as an aggressive polish/rubbing compound. My first victim - a golden egg 3520 - became very shiny and the second remount and cleaning thereafter had a near mirror finish without a letter to be found! IC7 is also a warranty invalidator! Technically you are supposed to use the Intel HSF to keep your warranty anyway.

 

[ZimZum]

Interesting, these exotic TIMs sound like they're more trouble than their worth. Guess I'll stick with the old school goop.

 

[Gillbot]

Interesting, these exotic TIMs sound like they're more trouble than their worth. Guess I'll stick with the old school goop.

This is still why I use Ceramique!

 

[Rubycon]

Interesting, these exotic TIMs sound like they're more trouble than their worth. Guess I'll stick with the old school goop.

If you plan on leaving it alone for a while and allow for proper preparation CLP cannot be bested. It's that good. Muck up the installation, though and I guarantee you will be cursing like the day you get a flat and find out your spare has no air as well!

 

[aigomorla]

Interesting, these exotic TIMs sound like they're more trouble than their worth. Guess I'll stick with the old school goop.

lol i bought a special tub of MX-2... its litterally a big surigne of MX-2 with a mass of 20+g.

That has lasted me 1 yr regardless of all the cpu swaps i have done.
i believe my Vapor (eric) also said 1 tube will last him 3 block tests!

But i like MX-2... so far its given me the most consistent mounts, which is more important then that extra 1-2C.

I like ICD7, its a great product, but its so thick, and yes it does etch your cpu.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

He's partially correct.

IF the cpu was OEM, it does not come with any paste, so you are required to get your own.
Intel isnt that super picky about the IHS, unless you lapped it, because the stock intel sink can even put a small dent it.

And Intel no longer just looks at the numbers etched on the cpu.
That is mostly for (YOU) when YOU need to call in.

Didnt u ever wonder what those funny little white boxes which look like bar code was?

Its a 2d tracker which can be read from a scanner.
So its easier to feed it though a said scanner and then record, then pay someone to write the numbers down on a computer.
Welcome to the 21st century..

Well he is certainly right. I just took the advice of some other forums who say MC has a no questions asked return policy so I figured it wouldn't hurt to try. I definitely did not mess around and my chip barely hit 4ghz well under 80C. I had it properly cooled all the time, but it seems IC Diamond 7 is just some nasty stuff to work with I'm lucky he decided to take my CPU back because at first it sounded like they would only do it if "defective." Well he didn't even bother checking it and just claimed I completely raped the chip with my IC Diamond 7. Works for me. I got a better chip in the end anyway

Haha you think IC7 changes your heatspreader try Coollaboratory liquid metal pro!

The diamond dust in IC7 is a good abrasive given its Moh hardness rating of 10.

It will polish and make the IHS writing impossible to read in just one application and removal particularly if you rub it while the compound is still prevalent on the IHS.

Um I'd skip MX3. Lots of problems with latest batches.

Thermalright Chill Factor 2 is very good.

That's certainly a problem if you decided to rub it all over your CPU right? It's like putting my arm down on sandpaper. Just doing so won't scratch me/make me bleed. It might poke me. Now if I start rubbing my arm back and forth my skin will break/bleed. So even with the diamond dust being hard as hell, I wonder how large those particles are, and how much abrasion is going on. I can't imagine too much. The stain/residual/etch-like look makes me believe it's more of a chemical reaction and/or I may not be cleaning it properly with IPA. Perhaps methanol would work... but I get a little concerned with more dangerous liquids i.e. acetone

 

[SlowSpyder]

Seriously, you returned a product because it didn't overclock well enough? No wonder Intel and AMD look down on overclockers...

I mean, I guess if they took it back so whatever, but it's still kind of a dick move in my opinion.