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Yay Canada - This thread is aboot Ice Hockey

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Garet Jax

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Congrats to the Canadian Junior Team for winning its 5th straight gold medal in the competition. This is the second time they have won 5 straight gold medals (the last time I believe was 1993-1997).

The question becomes why does our junior team do so well, but our senior team does so poorly comparatively?

Last major competition (I think it was the winter olympics) - I don't think we even made it out of the round robin. If I remember right - we lost to Switzerland and Finland among others.

I have a theory - it assumes two things I sort of take for granted:

1) Europeans play more of a skills game (skating, passing, shooting) and North Americans play more of a physical game (dump and chase, hitting in the corners, screening the goalies and picking up the garbage).

2) Canada has the best junior hockey infrastructure in place of any country in the world (coaches, players, rinks, leagues, interest, weather, etc....).

Here is my theory:
At the junior levels, there is a much bigger physical discrepancy between players (because kids mature at differents ages and at different rates). This allows Canada to choose players who are bigger and stronger than their European counterparts (because of the sheer number of players in the country). Combine this with the fact that the World Juniors are always played on NHL sized rinks (versus the bigger Oympic size rink), this makes the more physical gameplay much more effective.

Contrast this to the adults where most international tournaments are played on olympic size rinks (making pure hockey skills much more valuable) and the vast majority of humans are completely matured physically by their early to mid 20s. This maturation means that the European's are more than capable of taking the physical abuse the North Americans can dish out while still being more skilled at the game.

So Canada is generating players who will always be a force to be reckoned with at the junior level, but will be always be lacking at the senior level.

Discuss.
 
Decent game and glad to see they won, but man, that game against Russia the other day was freaking epic! I think that was the de facto gold medal game.

KT
 
Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Decent game and glad to see they won, but man, that game against Russia the other day was freaking epic! I think that was the de facto gold medal game.

KT

Unfortunately I live in the States and haven't figured out a way to see the games. I have resigned myself to listening online. That semi final game between Russia and Canada had to be one of the best games ever. Lead changed 4-5 times, there was never more than one goal between the teams, and then a game tying goal in the last 10 seconds to push it to overtime. Wow.

Sweden is a great team and beat Russia in the round robin, but I have to agree - whoever won between Canada and Russia was going to win the gold.

But back to my original post - discuss 😀
 
if we gave a crap about the Spengler Cup, we'd take it too.

but CANADA FTMFW!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!

Watched the games vs. Russia and Sweden..... awesome games...

Eberle is an Oilers prospect 😎
 
Originally posted by: meltdown75
if we gave a crap about the Spengler Cup, we'd take it too.

but CANADA FTMFW!!!!!!!!!!! YEAH!

Watched the games vs. Russia and Sweden..... awesome games...

Eberle is an Oilers prospect 😎

Yes - yes, but can we discuss my original post 😀
 
I think it has more to do with the drive that the juniors have. Watching WHL games vs. NHL games this is apparent.

The NHL players are definitely more skilled and play smarter hockey, but the WHL games I've been to have been more entertaining because the kids go balls out all the time. Combined with inexperience, this makes the game more exciting.

At the national level, the Canadian kids have grown up with hockey, have played since they were 6 years old and if they're good enough to be on the Canadian junior team, they're on the verge of making it in the NHL. They're 18, doing what they love and making no money. If they do well, they'll get drafted and will be making millions. The drive is there.

The national men's team is made up of guys who have made it already. They wanted a career and got it, and want to win the Stanley Cup and playing at the olympics will not help that. The Finnish players playing in the olympics largely come from Finland and probably have something to prove.
 
sure.

here's my discussion:

anything hockey-related that we give a crap about, we win.

we don't give a crap about "Senior" hockey. if we did we'd kick the sh*t out of the Euros in that too.
 
As a Hockey Canada coach we've gone back to skills as the focus our programs since the 90's Pros can learn systems but developing skating and stick work takes time.

You have to remember the senior level, these throw together teams dand on't have the years with each other to 'know' what the others are capable and the hockey sense isn't there.
 
Originally posted by: silverpig
I think it has more to do with the drive that the juniors have. Watching WHL games vs. NHL games this is apparent.

The NHL players are definitely more skilled and play smarter hockey, but the WHL games I've been to have been more entertaining because the kids go balls out all the time. Combined with inexperience, this makes the game more exciting.

At the national level, the Canadian kids have grown up with hockey, have played since they were 6 years old and if they're good enough to be on the Canadian junior team, they're on the verge of making it in the NHL. They're 18, doing what they love and making no money. If they do well, they'll get drafted and will be making millions. The drive is there.

The national men's team is made up of guys who have made it already. They wanted a career and got it, and want to win the Stanley Cup and playing at the olympics will not help that. The Finnish players playing in the olympics largely come from Finland and probably have something to prove.

This.

At the Olympic level, I assume your example means that most players on the Finnish team do not play in the NHL, whereas all of Team Canada does. This makes sense as there are fewer Finnish NHL players compared to Canadian NHL players.

Compare with another country with lots of NHL players, such as Russia or Sweden, and you have a team full of NHL players that are very evenly matched, or better than the Canadians.

The Junior-level players on the other hand, are still developing, so OP is correct that Canada dominates because our facilities, programs and interest in hockey are superior to other countries.

 
Originally posted by: desy
As a Hockey Canada coach we've gone back to skills as the focus our programs since the 90's Pros can learn systems but developing skating and stick work takes time.

I'm glad to hear this. However, I still believe the Europeans are going to be better than us since they play a much more open game than us. You can see it in all levels of hockey from the NHL down to the World Juniors - Europeans are largely pass/dribble first while North Americans look to dump and chase first. I think this is largely because we play on smaller rinks making dump and chase a viable system. On the larger rinks, goalies can get to the puck much more quickly (than the dumper) and play it out of the zone. This forces the players to try and carry the puck in through dribbling and passes. I think we will not be as good at the basic skills until they are a part of the systems we teach.

Originally posted by: desy
You have to remember the senior level, these throw together teams dand on't have the years with each other to 'know' what the others are capable and the hockey sense isn't there.

There is a lot of validaty to this. The Finnish defensemen were amazing while the NHL defensemen struggled. I think a lot of this had to do with familiarity with each other and the angles on the larger rink. Does this suggest that NHL defensemen focus on the wrong skills too.
 
Originally posted by: meltdown75
sure.

here's my discussion:

anything hockey-related that we give a crap about, we win.

we don't give a crap about "Senior" hockey. if we did we'd kick the sh*t out of the Euros in that too.

Ovechkin > Crosby. 😀
 
Originally posted by: rh71
Originally posted by: meltdown75
sure.

here's my discussion:

anything hockey-related that we give a crap about, we win.

we don't give a crap about "Senior" hockey. if we did we'd kick the sh*t out of the Euros in that too.

Ovechkin > Crosby. 😀
i don't think any hockey fan in their right mind would disagree with you on that one
 
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