YAWTT - Focusing on my shoulders (weight training)

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Koing

I just want size and definition. I don't care about strength, but I do realize that will be an after effect.

Well I would hit 10 reps then at a lighter weight. The way your hitting it you will get stronger and add some size but you won't get so cut. Your diet will play a big role in cutting cut.

But different people react differently though. Some will cut doing 6 reps 5 sets other 12 reps 4 sets.

Size I would still hit 6 reps 4 sets. You will get big from this.

Side note I know this is about shoulders but if your not doing squats you won't end up being that big because your not working the biggest muscle groups in your body. I'm sure you will will know something about this.........

I started this thread for shoulders, but if you have anything else to add for the overall workout I wouldn't mind. I started a thread about soreness before and I tried asking about size and reps, etc. but I think that got drowned out and the thread died.

So what should I do... I figured that first I'd increase the size, then I'd worry about defining them more by reducing body fat afterwards. Are you saying that for cut I have to work higher reps with lower weight? Should I do that now or just wait until later after size increases?

 

[Deeko]

Sagalore, I suggest checking out this link, its my workout. All of the exercises are done either 3 sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps, or 4 sets of 12, 10, 8, and 6 reps, with increasing weight on each set. Your discretion on 3 or 4 sets, depending on if you want to work more the fast twitch or slow twitch.

http://www.deeko.net/workout.doc

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Sagalore, I suggest checking out this link, its my workout. All of the exercises are done either 3 sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps, or 4 sets of 12, 10, 8, and 6 reps, with increasing weight on each set. Your discretion on 3 or 4 sets, depending on if you want to work more the fast twitch or slow twitch.

http://www.deeko.net/workout.doc

Cool, I think you might have shown me that before? What do you think about dropping the rest days and doing this:

Day 1: Shoulders
Day 2: Triceps
Day 3: Chest
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: Biceps
Day 6: Back
Day 7: Abs

 

[Deeko]

You could do that. I actually don't rest after chest day anymore, I usually go back for some more shoulder work. I still rest after legs, because I tend to STILL get sore after that day only, but if you want to separate some of the other days and eliminate that rest day, you could.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Deeko
You could do that. I actually don't rest after chest day anymore, I usually go back for some more shoulder work. I still rest after legs, because I tend to STILL get sore after that day only, but if you want to separate some of the other days and eliminate that rest day, you could.

I just figure that if only 1 muscle pair is worked, then the body isn't drained to the point that it requires a recovery day, and the next muscle can be worked while the previous pair is regenerating. Of course I'm only guessing...

It's hard for me to create a steady schedule because I'm getting mixed opinions here. Maybe what I should do, is have a 2 week rotation - follow the above plan for a week while maxing out at 4 to 6 reps, and then on the 2nd week do several sets of 10 to 12 with a lower weight? At least that would give me a 50/50 chance that one of the methods is working.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Deeko
You could do that. I actually don't rest after chest day anymore, I usually go back for some more shoulder work. I still rest after legs, because I tend to STILL get sore after that day only, but if you want to separate some of the other days and eliminate that rest day, you could.

I just figure that if only 1 muscle pair is worked, then the body isn't drained to the point that it requires a recovery day, and the next muscle can be worked while the previous pair is regenerating. Of course I'm only guessing...

It's hard for me to create a steady schedule because I'm getting mixed opinions here. Maybe what I should do, is have a 2 week rotation - follow the above plan for a week while maxing out at 4 to 6 reps, and then on the 2nd week do several sets of 10 to 12 with a lower weight? At least that would give me a 50/50 chance that one of the methods is working.

Well, my program is based around doing unrelated muscle groups in the same day. For instance, when you do bench press, you aren't working your biceps, so you aren't overworking a muscle group by doing them in the same day. Know what I mean?

As for number of reps/sets, alot of that varies from person to person, and what you are looking for. Personally, I do best with 3 sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps, with heavier weights. If you do less, doing only 4 to 6 reps, thats really focusing on fast twitch fibers, you are going to build mass that way, but not a lot of definition. The way I do it is kinda a happy medium, builds mass with definition.

btw, as of yesterday, I've gained 24 pounds on the above program, since late January. And I lifted before that too, just not in that program.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Deeko
You could do that. I actually don't rest after chest day anymore, I usually go back for some more shoulder work. I still rest after legs, because I tend to STILL get sore after that day only, but if you want to separate some of the other days and eliminate that rest day, you could.

I just figure that if only 1 muscle pair is worked, then the body isn't drained to the point that it requires a recovery day, and the next muscle can be worked while the previous pair is regenerating. Of course I'm only guessing...

It's hard for me to create a steady schedule because I'm getting mixed opinions here. Maybe what I should do, is have a 2 week rotation - follow the above plan for a week while maxing out at 4 to 6 reps, and then on the 2nd week do several sets of 10 to 12 with a lower weight? At least that would give me a 50/50 chance that one of the methods is working.

Well, my program is based around doing unrelated muscle groups in the same day. For instance, when you do bench press, you aren't working your biceps, so you aren't overworking a muscle group by doing them in the same day. Know what I mean?

As for number of reps/sets, alot of that varies from person to person, and what you are looking for. Personally, I do best with 3 sets of 10, 8, and 6 reps, with heavier weights. If you do less, doing only 4 to 6 reps, thats really focusing on fast twitch fibers, you are going to build mass that way, but not a lot of definition. The way I do it is kinda a happy medium, builds mass with definition.

btw, as of yesterday, I've gained 24 pounds on the above program, since late January. And I lifted before that too, just not in that program.

Did you make yourself a before photo to compare with your after photo?

 

[Deeko]

Not specifically for that purpose....but here are 2 pictures....August, last friday

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Not specifically for that purpose....but here are 2 pictures....August, last friday

You look very nice in that bikini. what's the yellow tags for?

Honestly I don't see any difference between the photos... except that I see slightly more definied biceps in the first photo... but in the 2nd photo there is more definition in the shoulder/neck/shrug area.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Deeko
Not specifically for that purpose....but here are 2 pictures....August, last friday

You look very nice in that bikini. what's the yellow tags for?

Honestly I don't see any difference between the photos... except that I see slightly more definied biceps in the first photo... but in the 2nd photo there is more definition in the shoulder/neck/shrug area.

tags to get on the beach(they charge there).

The pictures aren't great. Considering my arms are extended in both pictures, what are you looking at biceps for? The areas I've made the biggest gains in are shoulders and back. Obviously neither picture shows the back muscles. I've had the least improvement in chest, mainly because I've been benching since 9th grade, whereas I never really worked alot of these other muscle groups before. Regardless of the pictures, every muscle group has increased in mass.

 

[Deeko]

oh yea, another thing....in the first picture, you are looking at the side view of my biceps, whereas the second picture, its the direct view. Now, which way do biceps contract?

 

[Koing]

So what should I do... I figured that first I'd increase the size, then I'd worry about defining them more by reducing body fat afterwards. Are you saying that for cut I have to work higher reps with lower weight? Should I do that now or just wait until later after size increases?

Yeah thats the way most people go about it. They get to a size that they *like* then they cut down. No one does it the medium way, it just doesn't work out. You end up either being not as big as you like or as *cut* as you like. In the end if you want to be *cut* you will have to change your routine to focus on getting cut and *diet*. Completely.

I say hit 6 reps for 5 sets on squats. 8 reps and 4 sets on everything else. I wouldn't advise 10 reps and 4 sets. The extra 2 reps at the end make a lot of difference. You honestly won't be able to lift as much as you would be able to if you hit 8. If you can hit 10 then you can lift more for 8.

Military press is the big one for shoulders.
Up right rows
Bent forward rows

lateral raisers are good but you won't see much change in your shoulders as its a hard exercise. It takes a lot of isometric strength to get any respectable weight up. You will not see anyone do a 44lb dumbel later raiser unless they are a complete MONSTER, or a very classy Gymnast. I would so some every now and then for overal conditioning though. But focus on the top 3 exercises though. It takes time and it will take even longer for you as you are only hitting them once a week.

Cutting:
You do 15 reps and 3 sets. Thats more then enough work for cutting. You will be working typically on about 75-80% of what you would do on 6-8 rep range. The focus here isn't strength or size. You do 15 reps because its hard and it forces your HR up. Take ONLY ONE MINUTES REST between set. You do this because you are cutting and want to work very hard. Your diet has to be also very good to aid in getting cut. Some people will not get that *cut* though. Squatting I wouldn't do 15 reps. If you lift heavy then your legs will be pretty cut up anyway. For cutting on legs I would hit 10 reps medium/heavy and 4 sets. Again 1 minutes rest.

Other tips:

1) try to finish eating 2hrs BEFORE you go training. pasta and tuna is good.
2) drink plenty of water during your work out. Bring a 2litre bottle and sip on it between every set. More important on your leg days as you will get more tired.
3) try to eat no later then 20minutes after your workout as your body will be tired and your energy be low. Need to eat fast to get the supply your body will need to recover and for growth.
4) don't be slack during your sets. Take only 1-2minutes rest ONLY. Any longer and it would have to be for a *technical* lift as the focus isn't so much on strength but technique. Also you work much harder taking a shorter rest. Your made to work harder and your HR is much higher.
5) don't forget to do some *back* work. Bent forward rows are good for it. Back squats/ front squats and hyper extensions are good (where you lie on this sort of rasised th ing and hook your legs under. Then you go down with body from waist up and then once down come back up. Or you can lie on the floor on your front and then raiser your upper body off the floor with legs on the floor or raise them both also.

My back

How long have you been training? You will the more increase in strength and size when you first start. After a few years its hard to get increase's in size but the strength will go up. It all just takes time.

Koing