YAWTT - Focusing on my shoulders (weight training)

[SagaLore]

Here's Yet Another Weight Training Thread.

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

I need to build my shoulders up, they've always been my weakest muscle, and I've always ignored them for the most part in workouts. I'm reading that the major muscles tend not to grow when their supporting muscles aren't being grown (which is why machines aren't as good for lifting). My shoulders are both a major muscle and a support muscle for just about everything else I do upper body. So I want to get those pumped up.

Now what shoulder excercises have you done where you've seen the biggest ROI?

 

[Fausto]

I'd say military press. Multi-joint, you can use a lot of weight relative to other shoulder stuff, and hits the whole shoulder/upper back area all in one go.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Fausto1
I'd say military press. Multi-joint, you can use a lot of weight relative to other shoulder stuff, and hits the whole shoulder/upper back area all in one go.

Ack, I hate that one. But I'll stick that one on my list and do it, I'm not getting any younger and I want to have a relatively decent body before the gray hair ratio reaches 50%.

What else focuses on the shoulder? I was doing kind of like the military press, but with freeweights, I don't know what that's called.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Fausto1
I'd say military press. Multi-joint, you can use a lot of weight relative to other shoulder stuff, and hits the whole shoulder/upper back area all in one go.

Ack, I hate that one. But I'll stick that one on my list and do it, I'm not getting any younger and I want to have a relatively decent body before the gray hair ratio reaches 50%.

What else focuses on the shoulder? I was doing kind of like the military press, but with freeweights, I don't know what that's called.

Yeah, it does suck, but is a good one for shoulders.

Another you could do that really isolates your delts would be dumbbell raises. You can do these standing straight up and leaning forward (almost like a reverse fly) to hit the deltoid all the way around. I do these with a slightly bent elbow to put less stress on that joint with the heavier weights. One thing with these is to resist the urge to "throw" the weights up....keep the motion slow and controlled both up and down to get the best results. You can then throw a few forced reps on top to finish things off.

 

[machintos]

The side raises are good for you shoulders too.
When you're doing this exercise, make sure to keep your arms straight and don't bent them.
If you're bending your arms, you're basically cheating.
15 - 25lbs should be enough.

 

[Looney]

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

 

[Amused]

Military and shoulder press. Also dumbell shoulder presses are good, too.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBBehindNeckPress.html

Lateral dumbell raises: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html

Upright rows: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/BBUprightRow.html

And very important is to work out your posterior deltoids (rear shoulders) with the high row (cable or barbell)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/CBRowNeckElbowOut.html

Also, shrugs are good: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TrapeziusUpper/BBShrug.html

 

[rh71]

I didn't read the text, but as soon as you said shoulders, I thought --> military press.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Amused

I was doing this one:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBBehindNeckPress.html

Lateral dumbell raises: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html

And this one:
Upright rows: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/BBUprightRow.html

And very important is to work out your posterior deltoids (rear shoulders) with the high row (cable or barbell)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/CBRowNeckElbowOut.html

Also, shrugs are good: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TrapeziusUpper/BBShrug.html

The link just before the shrugs - the CBRowNeckElbowOut one, that is actually working the shoulders? I thought that was considered back.

These links are cool, now I can actually see the excercise.

 

[Amused]

The high row works the rear part of your shoulders. Yes, it also works the back, but to a much lesser degree.

If you do not work the back of the shoulders, your shoulders will begin to look lopsided and bigger in the front than the back.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

When I started with biceps I didn't get any soreness at all. And then I tried triceps and still nothing. I worked my shoulders the other day (with the few excercises I knew) but the shoulders aren't sore - but behind the shoulder up where it goes to my neck is sore.

I'm trying to max out the best I can, if I can get to the 4th rep and I still feel I can do another, I can normally get to 5 or 6 before I lose it. I just hope my nervous system isn't giving up before my muscles are (I read this is often the case). I've been taking this sterol complex and this protein mix with a myostatin blocker. I also have to take this complex occasionally because I have problems with Adrenal Stress. I've been taking Zinc and Selenium, as well as Ester-C and Coral Calcium.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

When I started with biceps I didn't get any soreness at all. And then I tried triceps and still nothing. I worked my shoulders the other day (with the few excercises I knew) but the shoulders aren't sore - but behind the shoulder up where it goes to my neck is sore.

I'm trying to max out the best I can, if I can get to the 4th rep and I still feel I can do another, I can normally get to 5 or 6 before I lose it. I just hope my nervous system isn't giving up before my muscles are (I read this is often the case). I've been taking this sterol complex and this protein mix with a myostatin blocker. I also have to take this complex occasionally because I have problems with Adrenal Stress. I've been taking Zinc and Selenium, as well as Ester-C and Coral Calcium.

You know, I'd really up your reps to 10, minimum. Single set is fine, but you have to accomplish something with that single set. BTW, are you doing warmup sets first?

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

When I started with biceps I didn't get any soreness at all. And then I tried triceps and still nothing. I worked my shoulders the other day (with the few excercises I knew) but the shoulders aren't sore - but behind the shoulder up where it goes to my neck is sore.

I'm trying to max out the best I can, if I can get to the 4th rep and I still feel I can do another, I can normally get to 5 or 6 before I lose it. I just hope my nervous system isn't giving up before my muscles are (I read this is often the case). I've been taking this sterol complex and this protein mix with a myostatin blocker. I also have to take this complex occasionally because I have problems with Adrenal Stress. I've been taking Zinc and Selenium, as well as Ester-C and Coral Calcium.

You know, I'd really up your reps to 10, minimum. Single set is fine, but you have to accomplish something with that single set. BTW, are you doing warmup sets first?

Yea I do a warmup set of 15 reps - slow and controlled, and I have enough weight where I can feel some strain by the 15th. I've been experimenting with the 4 to 6 reps because of this:

On this site, the guy has a downloadble "book" explains that if you don't max out before 4 to 6 reps, then the weight is too light. If you download his book file, it's not that long and the information in it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Cable God]

He is right. If you are looking to gain mass, you should hit failure around 6-7 reps. 8 max.

 

[Spamela]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

I wouldn't say it's crap... but i don't know any powerlifters. HIT has been around for over 10 years now, and has a big following, so somebody believes in it. Personally, i don't like doing it myself... it's too intense. After a HIT workout, i'll leave the gym dizzy and wanting to vomit.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

I wouldn't say it's crap... but i don't know any powerlifters. HIT has been around for over 10 years now, and has a big following, so somebody believes in it. Personally, i don't like doing it myself... it's too intense. After a HIT workout, i'll leave the gym dizzy and wanting to vomit.

Why? Are you maxing out all your muscles groups at 4 to 6 reps?

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

I wouldn't say it's crap... but i don't know any powerlifters. HIT has been around for over 10 years now, and has a big following, so somebody believes in it. Personally, i don't like doing it myself... it's too intense. After a HIT workout, i'll leave the gym dizzy and wanting to vomit.

Why? Are you maxing out all your muscles groups at 4 to 6 reps?

Yeah, but the thing is you don't break between exercises... or at least i didn't.

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

I wouldn't say it's crap... but i don't know any powerlifters. HIT has been around for over 10 years now, and has a big following, so somebody believes in it. Personally, i don't like doing it myself... it's too intense. After a HIT workout, i'll leave the gym dizzy and wanting to vomit.

Why? Are you maxing out all your muscles groups at 4 to 6 reps?

Yeah, but the thing is you don't break between exercises... or at least i didn't.

What is your *exact* aim?

For strengh gains hit 6 reps 5 sets. One heavy set on the exercise I don't think is enough to really work it in my opinion. Strength hit 6 reps 5 sets or 5 reps 5 sets. The main thing it to be lifting consistently all the time. If you break for more then 2 minutes then its too much time wasted. With the recovery time you get you can lift much more. Lift heavy for 6 reps 5 sets with 2 minutes break max. 1 minute is a very good aim. Keeps the intensity very high and you working hard. Also gets you strong and gets you to recover very fast after a while.

Shoulders:

Military Press (I'd say the best for shoulders but depends if you want to pull or push)
Upright row
Bent forward row

The raisers are good but affect more static strength then anything. Ask a gymnast to do it and he will shock y ou with the strength he has in his shoulders. Short arms help out a lot.

I'm reading that the major muscles tend not to grow when their supporting muscles aren't being grown (which is why machines aren't as good for lifting).

Do you want just size or strength? The machines aren't as good for lifting because they are on *rails*, and dont' allow you to deviate off the set rails its on. This then doesn't allow your body to use the other supporting muscles it needs for that movement. You can push as hard as you want against that set *rail* its on. In reality this doesn't work as you need to control the movement which brings in the other muscles you need to use.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

I wouldn't say it's crap... but i don't know any powerlifters. HIT has been around for over 10 years now, and has a big following, so somebody believes in it. Personally, i don't like doing it myself... it's too intense. After a HIT workout, i'll leave the gym dizzy and wanting to vomit.

Why? Are you maxing out all your muscles groups at 4 to 6 reps?

Yeah, but the thing is you don't break between exercises... or at least i didn't.

I'm just working one set of muscles per day. One day pecs, one day biceps, one day triceps, etc.

I've read that if you overwork your entire body, you exhaust much of your energy reserves and at the end of the workout you don't get as much from it, plus it's harder for your body to regenerate since it's been depleted. And from a previous thread, a majority agreed that you only need to work a muscle once a week so I just spread it out...

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Koing

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I've been giving my new training approach a try... only 1 set per excersise, 4 to 6 reps of a maximum weight (after warming up with 15 reps with minimal weight). The trick is to do as many different excercises for that single muscle group to work the different fibers. In my last thread I linked to an article disputing the need to do more reps and sets. Plus I'm trying to ignore the fact I'm not getting sore based on the majority opinion that soreness isn't needed to grow muscles, it's just weird though, harder to know if it's working or not...

Are you referring to High Intensity Training? If so, you should notice soreness if you've just switched to it from a regular routine.

this sounds like HIT, and in the opinion of all the powerlifters i know (& me) it's crap.

for shoulders i do military press, lat pulldowns, and lateral db raises.

I wouldn't say it's crap... but i don't know any powerlifters. HIT has been around for over 10 years now, and has a big following, so somebody believes in it. Personally, i don't like doing it myself... it's too intense. After a HIT workout, i'll leave the gym dizzy and wanting to vomit.

Why? Are you maxing out all your muscles groups at 4 to 6 reps?

Yeah, but the thing is you don't break between exercises... or at least i didn't.

What is your *exact* aim?

For strengh gains hit 6 reps 5 sets. One heavy set on the exercise I don't think is enough to really work it in my opinion. Strength hit 6 reps 5 sets or 5 reps 5 sets. The main thing it to be lifting consistently all the time. If you break for more then 2 minutes then its too much time wasted. With the recovery time you get you can lift much more. Lift heavy for 6 reps 5 sets with 2 minutes break max. 1 minute is a very good aim. Keeps the intensity very high and you working hard. Also gets you strong and gets you to recover very fast after a while.

Shoulders:

Military Press (I'd say the best for shoulders but depends if you want to pull or push)
Upright row
Bent forward row

The raisers are good but affect more static strength then anything. Ask a gymnast to do it and he will shock y ou with the strength he has in his shoulders. Short arms help out a lot.

I'm reading that the major muscles tend not to grow when their supporting muscles aren't being grown (which is why machines aren't as good for lifting).

Do you want just size or strength? The machines aren't as good for lifting because they are on *rails*, and dont' allow you to deviate off the set rails its on. This then doesn't allow your body to use the other supporting muscles it needs for that movement. You can push as hard as you want against that set *rail* its on. In reality this doesn't work as you need to control the movement which brings in the other muscles you need to use.

I just want size and definition. I don't care about strength, but I do realize that will be an after effect.

 

[Deeko]

DUMBELL MILITARY PRESS is the mother of all shoulder exercises. I'd suggest doing several sets of these, even if you only do one set of everything else. Also, shoulder raises do pretty well. Reverse flies(if your gym's pec dec machine does this) work the rear deltoids as well. Barbell rows hit the traps, if you consider that to be shoulders.

 

[Koing]

I just want size and definition. I don't care about strength, but I do realize that will be an after effect.

Well I would hit 10 reps then at a lighter weight. The way your hitting it you will get stronger and add some size but you won't get so cut. Your diet will play a big role in cutting cut.

But different people react differently though. Some will cut doing 6 reps 5 sets other 12 reps 4 sets.

Size I would still hit 6 reps 4 sets. You will get big from this.

Side note I know this is about shoulders but if your not doing squats you won't end up being that big because your not working the biggest muscle groups in your body. I'm sure you will will know something about this.........

 

[Ameesh]

i do shoulder presses with dumb bells and laterl raises with dumbbells 2x12 with the first set being the heavist i can do.

I am seeing great results, i started about 40lbs in janurary on these and i am up to 145 on my shoulder press, the lateral raises are still difficult for me so i havent gone up in those much.

 

[QueHuong]

Bump for more good links.