YAWT: Overtime on salaried position

[fleshconsumed]

So I'm graduating in May (May 7th is my last and only final) and I've been looking for a job. I've done three year internship at software company. They did say they would like to have me onboard full time. However, for a variety of reasons I would prefer to change jobs. I've had plenty of interviews (actually early next week I'm supposed to talk to two more companies, not the actual interview, just prescreening process where they ask me about my education and interests), however so far only one other offer. The company isn't bad, and I feel that it can offer tremendous opportunities in terms of improving my skills and knowledge as well as working on a variety of projects involving different technologies.

There are two problems, the it is a salaried position and the pay frankly is on the low side for downtown Chicago and two, the overtime pay when you go over 40 hours is half of normal hourly rate. And this is what sucks big time. I could handle low salary for a year or two and if they do not raise it I would simply leave, however half the normal pay when you go overtime pushes it over the edge. I have absolutely no desire to work overtime for pennies. So here's the question, can the company actually make me work overtime on a salaried position? Now I understand that in a real world they might as well fire me if I will not work overtime. However, can they actually make me work overtime? Are there any laws that protect company or me in this situation?

 

[pstylesss]

Salary + OT? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[theeedude]

Just work half as hard overtime. 30 mins on ATOT, 30 mins for the job. Problem solved.

 

[fleshconsumed]

This is a salaried position. You can translate it to an hourly rate if you assume 40 hour weeks and 52 weeks in a year, say it comes out to $x per hour. If I go overtime i.e. working more than 40 hours a week, they will only pay half the hourly rate, that is $x*0.5 per hour.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Just work half as hard overtime. 30 mins on ATOT, 30 mins for the job. Problem solved.

They showed me their office, it's a very open office, everybody sees everything, so if I will sit 30 mins at AT, they will know.

 

[tomt4535]

At my company, Salaried employees dont get OT pay. If they work more than 40 hours, oh well. Hourly employees, like myself, get OT.

 

[mugs]

Getting paid half your hourly rate for overtime is a lot more than most salaried people are paid for overtime.

As for whether they can make you work overtime - are you interested in a job or a career? You're never going to move up if you do things like refusing to work overtime if asked.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: tomt4535
At my company, Salaried employees dont get OT pay. If they work more than 40 hours, oh well. Hourly employees, like myself, get OT.

The question is, can the company actually make me work overtime, or can I for example say: "I work only 40 hours a week, if you want me to work more, that's too bad"? Are there any laws like that? And yes, I fully understand that even if there are laws like that they just might as well fire me.

mugs
Depends on a company. My current company which I'm interning at and which offered me a full time position has salaried positions, but they pay normal overtime, i.e. 1.5x once you go over 40 hours. The only problem is I would prefer a different job.

 

[Sphexi]

Many companies do not pay OT for salaried employees. If they're offering you that, then figure out how much you'll be working for OT and it may well be worth it.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: tomt4535
At my company, Salaried employees dont get OT pay. If they work more than 40 hours, oh well. Hourly employees, like myself, get OT.

The question is, can the company actually make me work overtime, or can I for example say: "I work only 40 hours a week, if you want me to work more, that's too bad"? Are there any laws like that? And yes, I fully understand that even if there are laws like that they just might as well fire me.

No. You are salary. You work as much as the company wants or they fire you. A majority of states have little/no protection for salary employees.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I thought the whole rationality behind a salary was to lock employees who will be working ridiculous hours into a fixed income. This works to your advantage during your company's slow season (if there is one) and to theirs when you have to work your ass off. Am I wrong here?

 

[mugs]

If you're not willing to work overtime on their terms, tell them before you accept the job. No point to wasting their time, money and effort training you if you will not fulfill their needs.

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I thought the whole rationality behind a salary was to lock employees who will be working ridiculous hours into a fixed income. This works to your advantage during your company's slow season (if there is one) and to theirs when you have to work your ass off. Am I wrong here?

It's also assumed that you are in a position within the company to move up via promotions. So there is value in working overtime to get the work done and show the company you have what it takes to be promoted.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Sphexi and joshsquall
Thanks, that's what I really wanted to hear.


Guess I'll just call one of the developers I've talked to and ask them about how much on average they work overtime and go from there.


KLin
Or you could be showing them that you are happy to work underpaid and they do not have to raise your salary.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: mugs
If you're not willing to work overtime on their terms, tell them before you accept the job. No point to wasting their time, money and effort training you if you will not fulfill their needs.

Of course there is. You get their money

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Just work half as hard overtime. 30 mins on ATOT, 30 mins for the job. Problem solved.

then you end up staying late more until you finish up your work...

 

[BoomerD]

http://www.state.il.us/agency/idol/faq/qamwot.htm

"Who is exempt from being paid overtime?

The following employees are exempt from overtime pay:

Salesmen and mechanics involved in selling or servicing cars, trucks or farm implements at dealerships,
agricultural labor,
government employees,
executive, administrative or professional employees as defined by the Fair Labor Standards Act,
certain employees involved in radio/television in a city with a population under 100,000,
commissioned employees defined by Section 7(i) of the Fair Labor Standards Act,
employees who exchange hours pursuant to a workplace exchange agreement,
employees of certain educational or residential child care institutions.
For further information, click here. 820 ILCS 105/4a (2).

How do I know if I qualify as an executive, administrative or professional employee?

The law provides that two tests must be fully met to determine if you are an executive, administrative or professional employee. First, as a general rule, you must be a salaried employee. For definition of salary, see question below. Second, the primary duties you perform must also be exempt.

If I am paid on salary do I still qualify for overtime pay?
Possibly. You are paid a salary if you regularly receive each pay period on a weekly, or less frequent basis, a predetermined amount constituting all or part of your compensation, which amount is not subject to reduction because of variations in the quality or quantity of the work performed. However, an employee being paid on a salary basis is not automatically exempt from receiving overtime pay. The primary duties you perform must also be exempt to disqualify you from overtime pay."

 

[chusteczka]

Your main priority the first few years after school should be to learn as much as possible. You will be very lucky if you obtain a position where the hours you work are directly related to the amount of information you learn. The more you work, the more you will learn. The more you are able to learn in your position with the company, the more valuable you will be later.

Your questions concerning overtime pay should be irrelevant to your priorities.

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Sphexi and joshsquall
Thanks, that's what I really wanted to hear.


Guess I'll just call one of the developers I've talked to and ask them about how much on average they work overtime and go from there.


KLin
Or you could be showing them that you are happy to work underpaid and they do not have to raise your salary.

Then it's time to look for another job .

 

[jadinolf]

Never collected a penny of overtime in my career but the companies DID allow me to work as many hours as I wanted.

Hard to get home before 7 P.M.

 

[FoBoT]

getting paid for overtime? recockulous!

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
getting paid for overtime? recockulous!

Yeah, we don't get paid for it normally. We're on straight time now since we're so busy. What I *don't* like is that you have to work 40 hours per week no matter what. Work 38? Get paid for 38 and get yelled at. There's no making it up later or anything.

Still not too bad.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
This is a salaried position. You can translate it to an hourly rate if you assume 40 hour weeks and 52 weeks in a year, say it comes out to $x per hour. If I go overtime i.e. working more than 40 hours a week, they will only pay half the hourly rate, that is $x*0.5 per hour.

That's how the labor laws are written. Salaried non-exempt. It's incredibly rare, but it's in the lawbooks.

As for them making you work more than 40 hours, they cannot specify the number of hours that you work in a week unless you have a schedule or sign a contract. However, they can require you to complete tasks that will take more than 40 hours each week and then fire you if you do not complete those tasks on time.

ZV

 

[fleshconsumed]

chusteczka
I have had 3 year internship so it's different that a person with no real world experience outside college. Yes, I do realize that I still have lots to learn, but that's different than a person learning who haven't had a real job related to their degree in college. I know I would like to gain skills in several areas I haven't worked before, namely threading, CLR integration with SQL server, Reflection, Attributes, P/Invoke (already have some experience with that one) and general ASP.NET which is currently stuck at 1.1 level. Yes, I know ambitious. Now, concerning this job, I don't think I will be able to acquire these skills at a new job, but I do think new job will allow me to work with latest technologies, get to work on different projects and meet new people. So will this job be very valuable at gaining new skills? Yes it will, but it won't be that valuable, I would still have to learn on my own time.

And you have a wrong perception about learning and becoming more valuable to the company. In my general experience no one will raise your salary just because you worked so hard. You take it from them.

Klin
Yes it is. That's why my situation is difficult. I have good skill and enough experience to immediately contribute to the project and I also have desire to learn and advance, but I don't have enough formal experience. Same thing really as no one would even look at your resume unless you have a degree or 10+ years of experience. Now I could stay with my current job, which offers competitive compensation and benefits, but it won't offer me any opportunity to advance my skills. This new job will, but compensation is on the very low side.

 

[engineereeyore]

I thought it odd too, but I've interviewed with several companies that do pay you extra for overtime, even as a salaried employee. Many of the other companies at least had some other type of compensation of extra hours worked, such as banking hours. I don't have a problem working up to 45 hours a week, and I know there are going to be crunch time occasionally. But if I'm working 50 hours a week every week and not getting paid extra or compensated in some way, it's time to look for another job.