Another example of one of the worst routines i've ever seen. This thread needs to die and die soon!
Geekbabe
Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
I think I know you,you're the dude with the shoulder blades perma wedged up near your ears aren't you?
edro
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2002
- 24,326
- 68
- 91
Hahahaha! You wanna say that to Scott Buxton, the guy that looked over it for me and said that it was great? It was put together by a weight trainer at World's Gym in Columbus, and I took it to him to check over.
You're the one who will suffer the consequences of using this routine, so i'll say it to you: its bad, real bad. I could probably sit down and spend a good 20-30 minutes talking about the things that are wrong with it. But it doesn't look like you value my opinion very much, so why don't you head over to forums.bodybuilding.com and post it there. I'm betting you'll get a few dozen people saying the exact same thing, and not one agreeing with you. And if that doesn't do it for ya, go ahead and email it to a dozen well-known natural bodybuilders and/or authors with physiology degrees, perhaps some trainers with decades of experience.
edro
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2002
- 24,326
- 68
- 91
I already did post it on forum.bodybuilding.com (search my username). And no, I don't value your opinion until you give me reason to. Please, I don't want to get into an argument with you, if you would please give me the reasons it is bad, I would truley appreciate it. I am the first to admit that I don't know much, and I need to learn. So please, help me out.
Yeah, i remember seeing your post. I wanted to help out but it looked like that would take an hour. I think a lot of other people didn't critique for that very same reason - people like scott_donald for instance usually answer most questions, but him and other regulars didn't even bother. Anyway, i'll try to type something out in that thread.
You owe me 20 minutes
Posted on bb.com, here's a copy:Alright, here's the lowdown as promised. When i saw your routine on AT, i assumed you were intermediate, in which case it really would be downright horrible. However, seeing that you're a biginner and simply need to lose the weight now, it will get the job done. Not because its a good routine, but because when you're getting started, you can do everything wrong and still get results.
On the other hand, it does present a problem because you believe that the principles outlined in it actualy work, so when you're done losing the fat and your body starts to require a routine backed by actual science, you'll be screwed, because you will have to basically discard everything you think you know about bodybuilding and start over. So you might as well start doing it right now, because the longer you go doing the wrong stuff, the harder your life will get as a result.
DIET:
I was in your shoes, and lost the weight incredibly quickly and efficiently by going on a cyclic ketogenic diet, aka keto, aka CKD. Atkins is an example of a ketogenic diet, but it leads to excessive muscle loss, and shouldn't be used by someone who lifts. So you need to use a CKD diet that was adapted to bodybuilders. You can find the info you require on the nutrition / keto board right here. Its really a lot easier to follow than some people say it is. I enjoyed having 2-egg omlets with cheese and bacon for breakfast, and i miss them to this very day. CKD is simply as pleasant and efficitnt as diets get.
slim fast - avoid like the fvcking plague. Pour it down the toilet and forget about its existance. If you want to know why, do a search for threads concerning it
yogurt - fat-free yogurts have too much carbs and will make you fat. regular yogurts have too much saturated fat, so same story. avoid.
trail mix - no idea what this is
subs - half-decent depending on the diet. obviously you can't have these on a ckd. if you're doing a regular diet, make sure you take it on wholewheat bread with no mayo or any other trash. oh and skip the pop, it has more carbs than the damn bread.
protein bar - loaded with sugar and will make you fat. avoid
If you don't wanna do CKD, you can still get results with a regular diet, something like a 45/35/20 p/c/f breakdown. You won't shed fat as fast and won't be able to eat as well, but to each his own i guess. You should be fine at around 1700 cal/day, but i wouldn't go over that if i were you, not while cutting. Forget about 2000! Whatever diet you're following, make sure you're getting 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight. Good sources of protein are lean meats like chicken, turkey and veal (my fave), whey protein (optimum 100% whey is great), fish like tuna, etc. Good sources of carbs are oatmeal, wholewheat whatever, and so on. Good sources of fats are nuts, flax oil, etc. Personally, my breakfast of choice is cereal with milk and whey protein. I usually get about 50/50/10g of prot/carb/fat from breakfast. Stay away from cereals except 100% rolled oats and Kashi Good Friends (my fave, check health food aisle). Use fitday.com to keep track
EXERCISE
Alright, this is the fun part. Since you're cutting, you'll be fine with a 3-day split of back/bis, chest/tris and legs/shoulders. Do this on mon/wed/fri and do HIIT cardio on tue/thu/sat. Take sunday off. Doing HIIT cardio is KEY. Forget about regular cardio. HIIT is 9x more effective per amount of time spent and 3x more effective per amount of energy spent. Start out at 4 minutes and add a minute to this every 3rd workout until you hit 15. Do a 40s/20s or 30s/30s between 85% effort and 40% effort. For example, go at 85% for 20s and then 40% for 40s, then repeat for x number of minutes. Since you're just getting started, you probably shouldn't go as heavy as someone with experience would. Ideally, go to MAX-OT with 4-6 eventually, but i would suggest a year of experience before doing that. Do 10-12 for a couple of months and when you get used to it, hit 6-8 and start doing squats, barbell rows and other advanced exercises. For now, the 'absolute beginner 3-day split' from this thread would be PERFECT for you. I personally used his intermediate 3-day split for my cutting phase and it was killer!
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143006
LMFAO, glutes? You're actually trying to say that deadlifts should be primarily working your ass muscles?
What exactly do you think a squat is for?
Err....Proper deads actually primarily hit your erector spinae and glutes. Not your lats. However, deadlifts hit just about every muscle on your damn body, from traps, to delts, to lats, to hamstrings......but it is the ONLY exercise I do for my lower back. I'd be an idiot to think that deadlifts only hit the lower back (I don't see where I said that in my post).
You're not the only one who knows about proper weight-training around here.
Oh yeah- And squats primarily hit your quads, while secondarily hitting your hamstrings, glutes, and also working your mid-section.
Good LAWD, there's some serious hostility in this thread. Hopefully you found at least something that could help you, though.
Personally, I've used a rotating-days method of working out for the four or so years that I've been going to the gym. I started with chest/tris, back/bis, and shoulders/legs...now I've switched to chest/bis, shoulders/tris, and back/legs. That way, my triceps can get a nice burn by not being killed by all the bench pressing, and my biceps can get some action in without having to be worn down by rows and such. I'll probably switch it up again sometime in the near future, but we'll see.
The one statement that I've seen in this thread that I agree with beyond all others was something like this: the difference between being big/small, cut/bulky isn't workout routine, it's diet. Yeah, the number of sets you do will affect your development; but once you get to a certain point, diet plays a larger part than just about anything else. I know that in my own case, I gained something like 5 lbs. in the first three years of working out. I have no idea what body fat percentage I was at, but my guess is somewhere around 7%. Over the past year, I've gained roughly 7 lbs. in addition to those five. My lifts have gone up as well, and while my body fat percentage only went up slightly (at last count, it was 8%), I've gained noticeable size. The only change I made was that I ate more food, more frequently, and relaxed my uber-fat-conscious diet a bit.
Whatever happens, good luck to you, and do your best to stick with it. Whether or not you end up looking like Ahnold, you'll still feel better about yourself, and will find that many everyday activies becomes both easier and more enjoyable.
Personally, I've used a rotating-days method of working out for the four or so years that I've been going to the gym. I started with chest/tris, back/bis, and shoulders/legs...now I've switched to chest/bis, shoulders/tris, and back/legs. That way, my triceps can get a nice burn by not being killed by all the bench pressing, and my biceps can get some action in without having to be worn down by rows and such. I'll probably switch it up again sometime in the near future, but we'll see.
The one statement that I've seen in this thread that I agree with beyond all others was something like this: the difference between being big/small, cut/bulky isn't workout routine, it's diet. Yeah, the number of sets you do will affect your development; but once you get to a certain point, diet plays a larger part than just about anything else. I know that in my own case, I gained something like 5 lbs. in the first three years of working out. I have no idea what body fat percentage I was at, but my guess is somewhere around 7%. Over the past year, I've gained roughly 7 lbs. in addition to those five. My lifts have gone up as well, and while my body fat percentage only went up slightly (at last count, it was 8%), I've gained noticeable size. The only change I made was that I ate more food, more frequently, and relaxed my uber-fat-conscious diet a bit.
Whatever happens, good luck to you, and do your best to stick with it. Whether or not you end up looking like Ahnold, you'll still feel better about yourself, and will find that many everyday activies becomes both easier and more enjoyable.
Originally posted by: Nutdotnet
Err....Proper deads actually primarily hit your erector spinae and glutes. Not your lats. However, deadlifts hit just about every muscle on your damn body, from traps, to delts, to lats, to hamstrings......but it is the ONLY exercise I do for my lower back. I'd be an idiot to think that deadlifts only hit the lower back (I don't see where I said that in my post).
You're not the only one who knows about proper weight-training around here.
Oh yeah- And squats primarily hit your quads, while secondarily hitting your hamstrings, glutes, and also working your mid-section.
I'm confused then....
I've always felt deadlifts hit my erectors, quads, and maybe even glutes... but i assumed it was all secondary to the lats. The people i've trained with have always stressed a strong lat contraction as the weight rises, and that follows the descriptions ive read around the net as well.
If you're saying the deadlift primarily hits the erectors and the glutes... then whats the point of the squat? The movement with a deadlift and a squat are nearly identical with the exception of where the weight is placed.
i wouldn't keep this thread alive after claiming that "Proper deads should be hitting your lats primarily, ..."
Well hey, thats the only thing i've ever heard or read. Hearing that they work your legs more than your back is a first for me.
I've always done SLDL's for my hamstrings.... Yes, they definitely hit the lower back, but ive always been under the impression their main purpose was for the hams. If you want to work your lower back, there are much better exercises for it.
goodmornings, but i feel the primary muscle group in deads are the lower back if done correctly, front squats/deep squats are better for hammy/quads
People say to keep your lats tight during deadifts so you don't throw out your lower back due to horrible form (ever hear to take a deep breath and hold it to keep your back straight while doing these? its to keep your lats tight and form good....). They do not work your lats. If you feel any burn in your lats from deadlifts, you have some serious form issues. The only reason I ever feel anything in my lats while DL'ing is because I do them on back days, right after heavy lat pulldowns/underhand rows/overhand rows so my whole back is 'pumped'.
Deadlifts = erector spinae/glutes/hammies/forearms/a lot of supporting muscle such as calves, etc. As most people know, DL's are one of the 3 power lifts (DL/Squats/Bench), and are probably one of the best exercises you can do, period. Works a lot of small muscles and whatnot, and will definately help you if you have any lower back pain at all, or plan to in the future. Plus, if you do both kinds of wrist curls after Dl-ing you will have beefy forearms in no time at all :beer:
Deadlifts = erector spinae/glutes/hammies/forearms/a lot of supporting muscle such as calves, etc. As most people know, DL's are one of the 3 power lifts (DL/Squats/Bench), and are probably one of the best exercises you can do, period. Works a lot of small muscles and whatnot, and will definately help you if you have any lower back pain at all, or plan to in the future. Plus, if you do both kinds of wrist curls after Dl-ing you will have beefy forearms in no time at all :beer:
I think that's the best description of deadlifts I've read on here. Good job.
PaperclipGod- The movement of squats and deadlifts are not the same. Similar yes, but next time you do both really concentrate on your form and the muscles being impacted the most. With proper form you'll notice with deadlifts you are most definitely (sp?) going to feel it in your lower back (erector spinae, which actually extends up the entire back) and your glutes. With proper squats you should feel your quads primarily, and then your hammies and glutes. Of course the deeper you go on your squats the more your hamstrings and glutes are going to be involved in the exercise. The thing about deadlifts and squats both are the are really full-body exercises.
About SLDL- done properly, they are a great hamstring exercise.
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