YAWoWT: Why are priests like pets?

[naddicott]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Rogues I think are one of the least understood classes. You should *always* let your rogue pull. Yeah, yeah, I know you all *think* that your tank should pull but it doesn't work that way. A rogue has a very tiny agro radius and can selectively pull a mob from a group, or agro a group in a controlled manner. We can also pass agro off to the main tank once this is done. Due to a high DPS rogues are also great at pulling agro off of your cloth-members and then moving it back onto the tank.

My warrior will leave a group before the run even starts if the rogue is thinking like this. A group minded rogue with appropriate talents can sap without pulling. There is no reason for them to be on the hate list of anything besides the MA's target.

Healing aggro is a funny thing. Monsters are not aware of the heal unless they are aware of the player being healed. If a rogue pulls, all monsters are aware of him the entire fight when it comes to healing (regardless of whether or not fade fails - and fade WILL fail). Say the rogue successfully passes aggro to the tank (far from guaranteed if you aren't overleveling / zerging the instance in question) and subsequently gets aggro on the main target requiring a heal. The healer has just added that heal aggro to every mob in the pull, rather than just the one. Thanks.

For the same reason, hunter pulls on anything that can't be CC'd down to a mob or two is a bad idea.

You can get away with a lot of rube godlberg, fancy tactics pulls in the early game. They're fun and can give you that warm feeling inside that you're smarter than other people. In the late game, it becomes painfully clear: CC as much as possible - once that is a given, let the tank pull for initial aggro (and rage if the tank is a Warrior). Sheep can be done after pull. Shackle can be done after pull. Banish can be done after pull. Sap can be done without pulling. Mind control can be done after pull. Silence/Counterspell on caster can be done after pull. There is no reason not to have the tank pull.

That's assuming the tank knows the basics of pulling. A sloppy puller is worse than a skilled puller regardless of class.

[edit: great priest information]

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: naddicott

Originally posted by: Smilin
Rogues I think are one of the least understood classes. You should *always* let your rogue pull. Yeah, yeah, I know you all *think* that your tank should pull but it doesn't work that way. A rogue has a very tiny agro radius and can selectively pull a mob from a group, or agro a group in a controlled manner. We can also pass agro off to the main tank once this is done. Due to a high DPS rogues are also great at pulling agro off of your cloth-members and then moving it back onto the tank.

My warrior will leave a group before the run even starts if the rogue is thinking like this. A group minded rogue with appropriate talents can sap without pulling. There is no reason for them to be on the hate list of anything besides the MA's target.

Hm. Bullsh1t.

Doesn't work that way AT ALL. If a rogue could sap without pulling you're dealing with a single target so why would you sap to begin with? So everyone twiddles their thumbs while the only agro'd mob sleeps for 40 seconds? Even with improved sap maxed out it's likely you won't return to stealth after the hit. Sap was designed to allow you to pull two mobs at once in a controlled fashion. Explain to me how a warrior does this?

The common mentality that your tank should pull is just wrong. Your tank should tank. Pulling is a convenient way to arrange this but it is not the only way. Rogues can pull with much more precision and they should always be out in front.

It's perfectly fine for rogues to be on the hate list of all active mobs. If he's good he will only have high damage against one. A shout or growl or a single hit from the tank should be more than enough to transfer. If not the rogue can feint off a single target, dodge to buy time against multiple or if the sh1t hit's the fan, do a vanish which will drop all agro even when it fails. Worry about your healers that pickup agro; your rogue can take care of himself. If his dumbass gets in too deep it's his own problem.

When I pull, we don't wipout. When someone else does, we do. Instead of leaving your party, why don't you stick around and watch. You might discover something. I'm suspecting you have either played with some knucklehead rogues or you've never given a good one a chance to do his thing. Seriously, give it a try tonight with one of your guildmates (who I assume aren't knuckleheads).



Try this with single mobs:
Let a ranged player pull. The mob will go for them but before they can get under minimum bow range, let the rogue cheapshot. You'll end up with a mob that has taken a decent amount of damage that is now standing directly in front of the tank and completely stunned! It's a beautiful thing and your tank with his huge agro radius and clanking cowbell necklace doesn't even have to take a step.

 

[torpid]

I'm curious how a rogue pulls without getting more, but if it's true I agree with him 100%. As a player who has played tank, healer, and dps, it is quite obvious to me that you do not want anyone except the tank to be on the hate list, period, if you can avoid it. You totally ignored his points about healers. If the healer is on everyone's hate list, then everyone might come attack the healer for any burst of healing, which makes everyone else's life difficult.

 

[Smilin]

Don't heal the rogue, heal the tank.

The rogue is on his own for this. He can sluff off agro as needed or vanish out if he's going to die. The limited damage that a rogue is going to take can be handled with a potion or a blind+bandage.

 

[Ephemeral]

Improved sap gives you a 90% chance to return to stealth after sapping a mob.
In my experience a return to stealth fails maybe once or twice out of literally hundreds of mobs. In which case you have a vanish, and if done quickly enough will not fail. Sap must be done initially on an out of combat mob. The reason you are there is crowd control and dishing out high damage.

A rogue pulling a single elite mob in a high level instance? Seriously man...:roll:

Why would you want to burn evasion, blind, and even vanish on every single pull?

That would work on a single mob (If it was possible) that can be taken down easily, but the only thing anyone is interested in on everything Stratholme and up is crowd control.

Rogues are low on the priority list for healing, we shouldn't be pulling or soaking up damage, that is all there is to it.

 

[Reddale77]

Im a half priest (Paladin) do I get half of what a priest gets? Paladins need their cut too. Oh, and I want half of what the warrior gets for protecting people/tanking when the warriors are camped out or busy elsewhere..

 

[Boze]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Boze
Past level 50, if you are dying as a priest, then you are doing something wrong...

From level 51 on up I was consistently doing Stratholme / UBRS / LBRS / BRD / Scholomance, and I've probably died less than five times on the dozens of runs I've done through these places. I rarely die in groups these days either.

Priests require brains my friends. And I'm not just talking about "cast shield on self and run around while the tank pulls the mob off me" brains. No sir. I am talking serious, creative strategies to maintain survivability in intense situations.

For the people I enjoy playing with, a typical pull (in most any dungeon or instance nowadays) consists of 5 to 10 very large scary mobs that could potentially crush me in a single round of combat, or two at the most. I am constantly casting shields, heals, and even DOTs during these pulls. A priest (especially holy / disc...) has all the tools at his or her disposal to become a serious force to reckon with. Fade, Desperate Prayer for humans, Holy Nova (I use this one ALL the time), Power Word: Shield, Psychic Scream (less useful in dungeons & instances I admit). Potions and bandaids also help maintain your survivability.

Creative playing is a necessity for the high level priest that never wants to die.

And frankly Quix, I hope a level 37 priest is not the highest one you've ever had, because priests don't start to emerge as powerhouses until level 50+ and until you've maxed at least one of the talent trees.

Right now I have a level 60 shadow / disc priest and a level 54 holy / disc priest. I can take both of them to any zone I want and dominate with my group (although the holy / disc seems to be more indestructable than the shadow priest, mainly because of Holy Nova).

And PVP... oh man... I really can't even begin to describe how badly no other class wants to run up on a level 60 shadow priest in a PVP situation. That is just... not good for anyone. Its pretty fair to see that a level 60 shadow priest is practically unbeatable against any other race / class / talent combination provided both players are of similar skill, have similar equipment, and are using items at their disposal (potions, right-clickie trinkets, etc.).

I love my priest to death (although I play EverQuest II now until battlegrounds and hero classes get implemented) and most people who truly learn to master them do.

Hm... I wouldn't even invite you to a BRD group at 51. Either this is shens or the people you play with don't mind the INSANE AGGRO you draw at 51 even in BRD, nevermind the others who will aggro you for just THINKING of entering the instance.

Between that and "if you are dying at 50", I say you are the king of hyperbole or just plain full of it. I've seen level 60 priests die in BRD in a raid of 15. There's nothing a priest can do to stop a wipe in some cases.

Draw aggro? That's the most bullsh1t excuse ever used. People who are worried about a lower-level player drawing aggro either don't understand how to teach that player how to avoid it in the first place, or their group or raid doesn't have the manpower to blow through the instance in a timely fashion to begin with.

You should also realize that no other class besides priest is capable of starting these zones at such a low level, and the reason is a simple one: You can't resist my Greater Heal. I don't have to worry about you resisting Greater Heal, or Power Word: Fortitude, or other spells. Hell, I don't even care if enemies resist my Holy Nova, because I still get the aggro reduction effects regardless of if it does damage or not.

At any rate though, you definitely don't need to take my word for it... creative a character on Cenarius, look for Tas of Afterlife and ask her about the level 51 human priest who was doing Stratholme raids with her. Or ask Darfour, whom I have done Strath, BRD, and UBRS with at 51 to 54. Or ask Morteus of Driven, whom I did BRD with at 48. I could keep going but its really kind of pointless. Until you force yourself to do more with less, you won't and you can't, and its that kind of mentality that caused me to leave World of Warcraft. I had a few angrier words to throw in there, but its kind of pointless really, since you are like most people; unable to believe a 52 priest could not only hang in Stratholme, but be the raid's main healer (i.e. puller & tanker healer) until they actually witnessed it firsthand.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Ephemeral
Improved sap gives you a 90% chance to return to stealth after sapping a mob.
In my experience a return to stealth fails maybe once or twice out of literally hundreds of mobs. In which case you have a vanish, and if done quickly enough will not fail. Sap must be done initially on an out of combat mob. The reason you are there is crowd control and dishing out high damage.

I'm using preparation, not improved sap at that point in the tree. You are saying on one hand to spend points on improved sap and saying on the other hand never to pull. Unless you solo exclusively at a high level :roll: what is the point? Short of chasing down a mob that's on your priest, or slowing an escaping mob down with poison how are you accomplishing "crowd control" without leveraging your stealth, tiny agro radius, and sap?

A rogue pulling a single elite mob in a high level instance? Seriously man...:roll:

I'll be open to the notion that my opinions may change as I reach 60. I've not pulled against anything beyond a ~50 elite. However so far my party has NEVER wiped while I was doing the pulling. I think that says something. I think you are confusing pulling with tanking. Just because you pull doesn't mean you tank. If you are dying before you can pass agro to your tank then you must die every time agro slips. WTF did you even bother joining the party for?

Why would you want to burn evasion, blind, and even vanish on every single pull?

Who said I did on every single pull? Use as needed.

That would work on a single mob (If it was possible) that can be taken down easily, but the only thing anyone is interested in on everything Stratholme and up is crowd control.

Rogues are low on the priority list for healing, we shouldn't be pulling or soaking up damage, that is all there is to it.

Hm. What's the point of having you around at all? Leverage your stealth or go become a pally or something.

Rogues are awesome at pulling, that is all there is to it.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Boze

Originally posted by: torpid
Hm... I wouldn't even invite you to a BRD group at 51. Either this is shens or the people you play with don't mind the INSANE AGGRO you draw at 51 even in BRD, nevermind the others who will aggro you for just THINKING of entering the instance.

Between that and "if you are dying at 50", I say you are the king of hyperbole or just plain full of it. I've seen level 60 priests die in BRD in a raid of 15. There's nothing a priest can do to stop a wipe in some cases.

Draw aggro? That's the most bullsh1t excuse ever used. People who are worried about a lower-level player drawing aggro either don't understand how to teach that player how to avoid it in the first place, or their group or raid doesn't have the manpower to blow through the instance in a timely fashion to begin with.

You should also realize that no other class besides priest is capable of starting these zones at such a low level, and the reason is a simple one: You can't resist my Greater Heal. I don't have to worry about you resisting Greater Heal, or Power Word: Fortitude, or other spells. Hell, I don't even care if enemies resist my Holy Nova, because I still get the aggro reduction effects regardless of if it does damage or not.

At any rate though, you definitely don't need to take my word for it... creative a character on Cenarius, look for Tas of Afterlife and ask her about the level 51 human priest who was doing Stratholme raids with her. Or ask Darfour, whom I have done Strath, BRD, and UBRS with at 51 to 54. Or ask Morteus of Driven, whom I did BRD with at 48. I could keep going but its really kind of pointless. Until you force yourself to do more with less, you won't and you can't, and its that kind of mentality that caused me to leave World of Warcraft. I had a few angrier words to throw in there, but its kind of pointless really, since you are like most people; unable to believe a 52 priest could not only hang in Stratholme, but be the raid's main healer (i.e. puller & tanker healer) until they actually witnessed it firsthand.

Pardon me oh great master of reading comprehension... please point out where I said it was impossible. I said either you are lying or your group didn't mind the insane aggro you draw. And you explicitly agreed with the latter. When I say you agreed with this, of course, I mean that you may or may not have understood what I wrote or the mechanics of the game enough to realize my point was sound, but nonetheless inadvertently agreed with it. The more you post the less likely I find anything you say to be truth, since you can't even read my post, much less provide any helpful information for others.

Furthermore, oh great master of self congratulation, how do you teach a 51 to not draw aggro when just standing still in the back in confined quarters in a level 60 dungeon? It sounds to me like you are quite selfish if you expect a group to bring you to something where you are about 7 levels below everyone else (and 7-10 below the bosses) and are forcing THEM to have a much more difficult time than they should due to all the adds that you will pull, no matter how hard you try not to, because enemies that are 9-11 levels below you will aggro at a much greater range than the players 1-2 levels below them.

More power to you if you don't mind putting your groups through all that difficulty just so you don't have to level up at 5x the rate by yourself. I for one prefer to think of my groups and guild first, and try not to go into instances with enemies that are 10 levels above me.

 

[replicator]

Priests are definitely needed in the higher levels and they probably have the easiest time finding a group to party with.

I'm a paladin (58), and find i'm partied with a bunch of other pallys because there are franky just one too many of us.

 

[Ephemeral]

Smilin:

I have a 21/8/22 build, basically for cold blood, imp. cheapshot, imp sap, and prep.

I think we are talking about different things here. All I was conveying was the usefulness of having imp. sap.

On level 50's you can do what you want basically, there is alot of freedom.
The mobs I am talking about will kill anyone not wearing plate in a matter of seconds. Feint is a useful tool yes, and the warriors taunt/first hit should pull the mob on to them, the problem lies with keeping a realm of safety for everyone that won't be in melee range, which leaves you little room to work in most cases. Taking even a couple of hits in the process can kill you. Improved sap is basically preffered because multiple rogues will be able to use it. That would be the ultimate crowd control, before anything starts you can have two+ mobs out of the game, and also have your openers ready. Timed cheapshots can be a very effective tool.

A basic scenario involving 4 high level elites would be: Hunters and casters lined up as far from everyone else as possible, tanks/melee waiting in the designated battle ground, main puller out front, rogues scouting to make sure everything will go according to plan. Hunter's mark goes on main target, rogues call targets to be sapped or receive orders on which ones to sap, and proceed, designated puller (Normally warrior with highest armor) draws out the marked mob, the add will come running with the marked mob, when in range it is sheeped, everyone focuses on marked target. This provides a quick and safe kill, the sheeped mob is then focused on, and then any sapped mobs are focused on. Best case scenario will give 30 seconds of freedom for each mob sapped.

I am not sure what you mean when you say pull. If it involves the hunter scenario you provided, then yes that is an option, however it is rarely seen inside a high level instance. In which case that technically wouldn't be you, "pulling." If it means you drawing the mob out yourself, then you essentially have no opener.

 

[zzzz]

I think smilin is low 50s. Upto that point rogue pulling works.
Also imp sap has little to do with pulling. After imp sap is succesful, you have just removed one mob from combat. Then some other person, (pref tank) pulls.
if the rogue insists on pulling in ubrs or such, he can be killed within 4-5 shots or hr has to burn vanish every pull.

 

[naddicott]

Yup, up to low 50s rogue pulling works. So does priest pulling. I suspect smilin thinks warrior pulling is charge into every encounter (which some idiotic players love to do, granted).

Tanks are ranged players too btw. If your warrior hasn't learned to use a bow or gun by his 50s, get a new one. If it's a pally tank, help them with the zelda quests for the boomerang and get the ranged dot trinket from LBRS (along with a good stock of EZ-throw or better dynamite).

I hate to join the bandwagon of "don't tell people what they should always do until you've hit 60 and done UBRS/Molten Core/Oxnia", but it really does make sense to at least qualify your statements based on your experience. I was mainly pointing out that any player who thinks there is 1 pull method for all scenarios is probably going to get a group repeatedly wiped in high end content. You can roughly emulate the high end experience by mostly doing instances where many mobs are 3 levels higher than anyone in the group (to simulate the frequent resist rates in end-content). In fact, it's good practice to avoid a rude awakening.

If a rogue doesn't have imp. sap, I don't want him sneaking up towards unactivated mobs in 10 man UBRS or 5-man strath/schlomo. More importantly, a smart priest will refuse to heal him (let him and anyone who helps them die, wait for the mobs to return, res. and continue if they get the point, otherwise port back to town and put together a group with players who understand aggro). My capped guildmates all have improved sap and do their CC job quite well.

The fact that rogues have stuns is besides the point. They should either be stunning the main assist's target or alternately saving some stuns in reserves for any mobs that peel off and attack healers.

You can do all sorts of sloppy stuff in early content, especially if you overlevel it. That's no reason to not start practicing good tactics early on.

 

[Schadenfroh]

have a new macro now for it

/p Hello, This is a step by step guide on how to keep your Priest pet happy and safe.
/p 1. Mages: Please do your best to keep the curses off the group, priests cant do this. It is also your job to make sure your priest is kept watered. A thirsty priest is a poor healing pet.
/p 2. Warriors: Do use taunt when the monster leaves you and goes after the priest. The priest pet cannot keep you happy when it is dead due to it being so soft, furry, and cute to infernals.
/p 3. Rogues: Sorry, but you do not provide a purpose other than picking locks, so you need to heal yourself so the priest can save mana to heal the warrior. Please take up first aid.
/p 4. Warlocks: Keep healthstones on all players in case the priest pet runs out of mana. Also, keep the priest pet secure with a nice soulstorage.
/p 5. Shamans: When priest pet runs out of mana, take over healing and do try to keep yourself healed so the priest can focus on the warrior.
/p 6. Pally: When priest pet runs out of mana, take over healing and do try to keep yourself healed so the priest can focus on the warrior.
/p 7. Druid: 2 dogs can get into nasty fights when one trys to take the others turf, please leave the healing to the priest unless he runs out of mana.

 

[imported_Rad]

A priest is a fairly easy, if not, boring class to play... But then again, this is coming from someone who was in an established guild and didn't play in many random "pub" groups... However, as a priest, you have one advantage over everyone else... you can pick and choose who you group with... don't pick groups without at least one warrior, and always have a mage by your side as well... Soloing is fine if you're shadow specced, but remember PW:S and PW:F are ESSENTIAL upgrades...

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Boze

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Boze
Past level 50, if you are dying as a priest, then you are doing something wrong...

From level 51 on up I was consistently doing Stratholme / UBRS / LBRS / BRD / Scholomance, and I've probably died less than five times on the dozens of runs I've done through these places. I rarely die in groups these days either.

Priests require brains my friends. And I'm not just talking about "cast shield on self and run around while the tank pulls the mob off me" brains. No sir. I am talking serious, creative strategies to maintain survivability in intense situations.

For the people I enjoy playing with, a typical pull (in most any dungeon or instance nowadays) consists of 5 to 10 very large scary mobs that could potentially crush me in a single round of combat, or two at the most. I am constantly casting shields, heals, and even DOTs during these pulls. A priest (especially holy / disc...) has all the tools at his or her disposal to become a serious force to reckon with. Fade, Desperate Prayer for humans, Holy Nova (I use this one ALL the time), Power Word: Shield, Psychic Scream (less useful in dungeons & instances I admit). Potions and bandaids also help maintain your survivability.

Creative playing is a necessity for the high level priest that never wants to die.

And frankly Quix, I hope a level 37 priest is not the highest one you've ever had, because priests don't start to emerge as powerhouses until level 50+ and until you've maxed at least one of the talent trees.

Right now I have a level 60 shadow / disc priest and a level 54 holy / disc priest. I can take both of them to any zone I want and dominate with my group (although the holy / disc seems to be more indestructable than the shadow priest, mainly because of Holy Nova).

And PVP... oh man... I really can't even begin to describe how badly no other class wants to run up on a level 60 shadow priest in a PVP situation. That is just... not good for anyone. Its pretty fair to see that a level 60 shadow priest is practically unbeatable against any other race / class / talent combination provided both players are of similar skill, have similar equipment, and are using items at their disposal (potions, right-clickie trinkets, etc.).

I love my priest to death (although I play EverQuest II now until battlegrounds and hero classes get implemented) and most people who truly learn to master them do.

Hm... I wouldn't even invite you to a BRD group at 51. Either this is shens or the people you play with don't mind the INSANE AGGRO you draw at 51 even in BRD, nevermind the others who will aggro you for just THINKING of entering the instance.

Between that and "if you are dying at 50", I say you are the king of hyperbole or just plain full of it. I've seen level 60 priests die in BRD in a raid of 15. There's nothing a priest can do to stop a wipe in some cases.

Draw aggro? That's the most bullsh1t excuse ever used. People who are worried about a lower-level player drawing aggro either don't understand how to teach that player how to avoid it in the first place, or their group or raid doesn't have the manpower to blow through the instance in a timely fashion to begin with.

No, that's actually an entirely reasonable reason. By a rather remarkable coincidence, our guild has a level 50 priest who we have been taking various places so I have some quite obvious examples of why low level aggro is annoying.

1) Upper Spire - the very first room. You can't walk a level 50 past the orcs in the rooms if you happen to wipe and get respawn. Suggesting that the raid never wipe is hardly viable, clearing them would take another 40 minutes of wasted time, and this was a particular nuisance, which we had to avoid by leaving him outside then summoning past.

2) Scholomance - a level 50 character cannot enter the crypt without drawing aggro from diseased ghouls three "lanes" away. This leaves you having to keep them outside and heal through the doorway, which of course means everyone has to stand in line with the door be unable to be healed.

3) Scholomance in general - having to clear both sides of the room outside the porch, having to clear a giant patch around the entrance stairs, having to clear both balconys above the locked door, having to clear the left side of the diseased ghouls, the list of unnecessary pulls is endless.

4) Dire maul north - you can pull the key guard without clearing the two groups of ogres at the bottom of the ramp, but not if you brought a 50 with you. You also can't walk them through the plaza, you can't get them to king without clearing the front coutyard etc etc.

Now certainly none of this is impossible, it simply means wasting a lot of time, and you may not have realised that the people you were with were going to an excessive amount of trouble because of you, but trust me, they were. You may think that costing everyone else in the raid an extra half hour or hour on the run is a small price to pay for the wonderfulness of your presence, and your guild may even agree with you, but be aware that not everyone would.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
have a new macro now for it

/p Hello, This is a step by step guide on how to keep your Priest pet happy and safe.
/p 1. Mages: Please do your best to keep the curses off the group, priests cant do this. It is also your job to make sure your priest is kept watered. A thirsty priest is a poor healing pet.
/p 2. Warriors: Do use taunt when the monster leaves you and goes after the priest. The priest pet cannot keep you happy when it is dead due to it being so soft, furry, and cute to infernals.
/p 3. Rogues: Sorry, but you do not provide a purpose other than picking locks, so you need to heal yourself so the priest can save mana to heal the warrior. Please take up first aid.
/p 4. Warlocks: Keep healthstones on all players in case the priest pet runs out of mana. Also, keep the priest pet secure with a nice soulstorage.
/p 5. Shamans: When priest pet runs out of mana, take over healing and do try to keep yourself healed so the priest can focus on the warrior.
/p 6. Pally: When priest pet runs out of mana, take over healing and do try to keep yourself healed so the priest can focus on the warrior.
/p 7. Druid: 2 dogs can get into nasty fights when one trys to take the others turf, please leave the healing to the priest unless he runs out of mana.

Edit: removed unwarranted flame.

You may wish to reword:
/p 3. Rogues: Sorry, but you do not provide a purpose other than picking locks, so you need to heal yourself so the priest can save mana to heal the warrior. Please take up first aid.

I think it's pretty clear you'll offend any rogue in your party with such condescending remarks. The message of "I need you to fend for yourself" should be conveyed but you should definately say it another way.

In truth, your whole macro has a narcissistic air about it. If you used it I probably would pick a different priest for my party and the other members would thank me for it.

 

[torpid]

I notice he left hunters off entirely. Most likely he's an "I don't party with hunters because they suck and I am god" type guy.

That statement to rogues is worthless. It should read... You are here to do damage but not get hit. Use feint regularly and don't expect me to heal you, because it will drain too much of my mana.

 

[Vortex22]

p 7. Druid: 2 dogs can get into nasty fights when one trys to take the others turf, please leave the healing to the priest unless he runs out of mana.

Stupid. I am specced for instance healing, so that is what I'm going to do. It's idiotic to have only one person healing the party when two could be doing it at the same time. If it weren't for me healing alongside the priest we would have never ever been able to win the fights at the end of both DM north and west. Taking turns healing only applies to raids like Onyxia and MC... in small instances the battles are short enough to not have to rotate healers (a druid wouldn't be in rotation on a raid anyway). Druid HOT stacks with priest heals, and I can outheal all the shadow specs anyway (99% of the priest population). I'm smart enough to not draw aggro by spamming 20 regrowths on the tank. Two healers working simeltaneously will split the aggro generation, making it less likely for either to pull mobs from the warrior, and if for some reason that does happen I can turn into a 5000 hp, 8000 armor tank instantly, and if the priest fade doesn't work I can easily pull the mob off them with a taunt.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: naddicott
Yup, up to low 50s rogue pulling works. So does priest pulling. I suspect smilin thinks warrior pulling is charge into every encounter (which some idiotic players love to do, granted).

Tanks are ranged players too btw. If your warrior hasn't learned to use a bow or gun by his 50s, get a new one. If it's a pally tank, help them with the zelda quests for the boomerang and get the ranged dot trinket from LBRS (along with a good stock of EZ-throw or better dynamite).

I hate to join the bandwagon of "don't tell people what they should always do until you've hit 60 and done UBRS/Molten Core/Oxnia", but it really does make sense to at least qualify your statements based on your experience. I was mainly pointing out that any player who thinks there is 1 pull method for all scenarios is probably going to get a group repeatedly wiped in high end content. You can roughly emulate the high end experience by mostly doing instances where many mobs are 3 levels higher than anyone in the group (to simulate the frequent resist rates in end-content). In fact, it's good practice to avoid a rude awakening.

If a rogue doesn't have imp. sap, I don't want him sneaking up towards unactivated mobs in 10 man UBRS or 5-man strath/schlomo. More importantly, a smart priest will refuse to heal him (let him and anyone who helps them die, wait for the mobs to return, res. and continue if they get the point, otherwise port back to town and put together a group with players who understand aggro). My capped guildmates all have improved sap and do their CC job quite well.

The fact that rogues have stuns is besides the point. They should either be stunning the main assist's target or alternately saving some stuns in reserves for any mobs that peel off and attack healers.

You can do all sorts of sloppy stuff in early content, especially if you overlevel it. That's no reason to not start practicing good tactics early on.

Yes. No matter what these people here think, in MC and beyond, warrior or hunter are the only two classes that will be pulling. Everyone else's job is to stand back and do nothing until they are told to by the MT.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Vortex22

p 7. Druid: 2 dogs can get into nasty fights when one trys to take the others turf, please leave the healing to the priest unless he runs out of mana.

Stupid. I am specced for instance healing, so that is what I'm going to do. It's idiotic to have only one person healing the party when two could be doing it at the same time. If it weren't for me healing alongside the priest we would have never ever been able to win the fights at the end of both DM north and west. Taking turns healing only applies to raids like Onyxia and MC... in small instances the battles are short enough to not have to rotate healers (a druid wouldn't be in rotation on a raid anyway). Druid HOT stacks with priest heals, and I can outheal all the shadow specs anyway (99% of the priest population). I'm smart enough to not draw aggro by spamming 20 regrowths on the tank. Two healers working simeltaneously will split the aggro generation, making it less likely for either to pull mobs from the warrior, and if for some reason that does happen I can turn into a 5000 hp, 8000 armor tank instantly, and if the priest fade doesn't work I can easily pull the mob off them with a taunt.

Agreed. Druids are just as good at healing as priests if they're specced correctly. There are no priests in my guild, we rely exclusively on druids for healing.

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: CVSiN
I must say shadow priests are indeed a strong opponant we and duel fest this weekend.. and i dueled a shadow priest... just wow...
talk about getting pwned...

she beat everyone including the top rogue on the server... yes he has Deathstriker and alkors sunrazor (lucky sob) and she still raped him...

That's because he was using daggers. Daggers = trash.

I've only been beaten by one priest consistently, and that was a holy specced priest. All shadow specced priests I've fought, I've killed pretty consistently (pvp server). Perhaps the rogues on your servers just suck 😛

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: exilera

Originally posted by: CVSiN
I must say shadow priests are indeed a strong opponant we and duel fest this weekend.. and i dueled a shadow priest... just wow...
talk about getting pwned...

she beat everyone including the top rogue on the server... yes he has Deathstriker and alkors sunrazor (lucky sob) and she still raped him...

That's because he was using daggers. Daggers = trash.

I've only been beaten by one priest consistently, and that was a holy specced priest. All shadow specced priests I've fought, I've killed pretty consistently (pvp server). Perhaps the rogues on your servers just suck 😛

Uh... daggers are not trash anymore. Perhaps you missed the fact that in the first guild to take down ragnaros, the top 7 damage dealers were rogues, 4 of which were dagger rogues.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: Vortex22

p 7. Druid: 2 dogs can get into nasty fights when one trys to take the others turf, please leave the healing to the priest unless he runs out of mana.

Stupid. I am specced for instance healing, so that is what I'm going to do. It's idiotic to have only one person healing the party when two could be doing it at the same time. If it weren't for me healing alongside the priest we would have never ever been able to win the fights at the end of both DM north and west. Taking turns healing only applies to raids like Onyxia and MC... in small instances the battles are short enough to not have to rotate healers (a druid wouldn't be in rotation on a raid anyway). Druid HOT stacks with priest heals, and I can outheal all the shadow specs anyway (99% of the priest population). I'm smart enough to not draw aggro by spamming 20 regrowths on the tank. Two healers working simeltaneously will split the aggro generation, making it less likely for either to pull mobs from the warrior, and if for some reason that does happen I can turn into a 5000 hp, 8000 armor tank instantly, and if the priest fade doesn't work I can easily pull the mob off them with a taunt.

Agreed. Druids are just as good at healing as priests if they're specced correctly. There are no priests in my guild, we rely exclusively on druids for healing.

No, they are not. I'll take a priest of any spec over a druid of any spec. Perhaps you think this because you have no priests in your guild. Believe me, priests are significantly more capable healers than druids. Druids can get the job done, but that doesn't mean they can do it as well.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: torpid
No, they are not. I'll take a priest of any spec over a druid of any spec. Perhaps you think this because you have no priests in your guild. Believe me, priests are significantly more capable healers than druids. Druids can get the job done, but that doesn't mean they can do it as well.

Muahaha... I'm in one of the larget guilds on my server, with 12 level 60 priests. We have one holy spec, all the rest shadow. Only the full holy priest can outheal me, and all the others openly admit this. Priests are better for healing soft targets because of PW:S, but a good druid is unmatched for MT healing. My rejuv ticks for 336 hp and I have 6600 mana and 3800 life self buffed (some of the priests have more mana, but I have innervate). Regrowth is the most mana efficient heal in the game, and its ~60% crit chance makes it even better. The best combo is druid + priest though, because we can stack HOTs, and druids make great priest bodyguards if the group runs into trouble.