YAWoWT: What would you change to your class?

[rstove02]

Decided to write up a suggestion of changes for the main class I play...namely priests:

Item #1 - End spec line talent for Discipline
Move ward fear to the end spec discipline talent. What to replace the dwarf?s priest ability I will cover later. A priest mastering in the art of discipline has the ability to impart their mental control (namely control of not being feared) onto their allies in battle. I know this suggestion will cause some grumblings by people who use fear, but remember that this is an end spec line and that most PvP priests like to use the "melt face" shadow line. The main reason I suggest
this change is because of the sheer number of PvE mobs with AoE fear at the end game.

Item #2 - End spec line talent for Holy
Remove holy nova and replace it with a self buff only aggro reduction of holy spells. The reason why I suggest this is because of the rumors of the paladins Salvation is going to be greatly nerfed or outright removed in the near future because Horde does not have any counterpart to this.

At this point I do not know what percentage this buff should be and if it should supplement or add to the Subtly talent (which gives 20% aggro reduction for 5 points spent). Either way I would expect the total aggro reduction to be at least 45%.

Heals (in my opinion) tend to be the worst "total" aggro spells in the game...rivaling AoE nukes/dots. Most offensive AoE spells are point blank, cone, or fixed area circular not always affecting all mobs. Plus most AoEers can hold off casting a few seconds and generally not run into problems. Healers on the other hand can not hold off on their heals, because it will shortly create a dead player/group. Add to the fact that heals tend to get said healer on the hate list of all currently tagged mobs that are not under some form of crowd control.

If the agro reduction alone is not enough for the end line talent, could add minor fixed amount increases to all holy spells and/or a fixed reduction in casting time of all holy spells.

Item #3 - Changes to race priest spells
Since never played horde that much, I am not going to give input on them...that is better done by people who have horde priestly expertise.

3a - Human
Desperate prayer - good as is

Feedback (option #1) - Change the spell to be a targetable buff on other players. Spell power and duration are open to tweaking.

Feedback (option #2) - Leave spell as self only but change the spell to work on wands and well as weapons. Starting at around lvl15 or so I found my priest did a lot more damage with a wand than with any weapon. And at endgame a priest only melees when you want to take out a pesky rat or such.

3b - Night Elf
Starfire & Elunde's Grace - Can not comment much on these since have little expertise on them, but here is a suggestion for a spell to replace the weaker of these two.

Elunde's Sanctuary - Channeled spell of 6 seconds that ever 2 seconds it removes a negative effect on all members of your group that is nearby (same range of prayer of healing). This could be restricted to just magic/disease abilities and/or buffed to also include stripping of magic buffs of mobs within range.

3c - Dwarf
Desperate prayer - good as is

Fear Ward - Thought about a replacement to this. Thinking of keeping it a buff
with one or more of the following effects:

Effect 1 - A relatively minor (compared to renew/regrowth) HP percentage or fixed amount regen like the troll's blood potion that will not be affected if player is in or out of combat.

Effect 2 - When hit by a school of magic (even if resisted) the person gains a resistance boost (<= 50) to the school of magic for 15 seconds. This extra resistance will not stack with itself, but will reset the timer to 15 seconds. If this is too overpowering, add a max # of times the buff will proc.

Effect 3 - A relatively minor (compared to PW:F) stamina buff that stacks with PW:F combined with a buff to frost and/or nature resistance.

Effect 4 - Nature (disease/poison) resistance buff that stacks with druid?s mark of the wild and hunter?s nature resist aura.

Item #4 ? Change inner fire
Change this to at least a 10 min buff with a maximum of 30 minutes. Increase mana cost accordingly. I would even take the removal of attack power from this buff in order to get it equal more than 10 minutes. The attack power buff portion of this spell is a throwback to the early concept of priests also being a type of ?battle-priests?. Kind of like a monk with healing ability. This spell alone was not intended to be the only thing required to change a priest into a healer-monk?..but cloth armor drops seldom (if ever) have stats to support this kind of thinking (i.e. melee bonuses like +% to dodge and such). Damage output of a priest in melee even with this buff will come no where close to shadow word pain and wand using priest (even a non-shadow talent, non-wand specialization talent using priest).

 

[warcrow]

I would have them atleast change the IV drip from this game to my arm so I could go to the bathroom.

 

[mryellow2]

Hmm...make crystal water soulbound or increase the amount per cast. Nothing like sitting on your ass for 15 minutes making water for a raid. Remove food/water from mages altogether, give them innate mana regen aura scaling upward in area of effect and rate of regen with intelligence.

Improve itemization/rework stats.

Remove binary (resist or full damage) characteristic from frost spells (fire spells work on a sliding scale, not just on/off)

some other crap I'm leaving off. Oh yeah, wtf is our damage? When I first started this game mages were supposed to be the highest damage dealers...now our niche is supposed to be...ae? yeah, wtf ever.

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: mryellow2
Hmm...make crystal water soulbound or increase the amount per cast. Nothing like sitting on your ass for 15 minutes making water for a raid. Remove food/water from mages altogether, give them innate mana regen aura scaling upward in area of effect and rate of regen with intelligence.

Improve itemization/rework stats.

Remove binary (resist or full damage) characteristic from frost spells (fire spells work on a sliding scale, not just on/off)

some other crap I'm leaving off. Oh yeah, wtf is our damage? When I first started this game mages were supposed to be the highest damage dealers...now our niche is supposed to be...ae? yeah, wtf ever.

.....and sheep 🙂

 

[abaez]

Originally posted by: rstove02
Decided to write up a suggestion of changes for the main class I play...namely priests:

Item #1 - End spec line talent for Discipline
Move ward fear the end spec discipline talent. What to replace the dwarf?s priest ability I will cover later. A priest mastering in the art of discipline has the ability to impart their mental control (namely fear) onto their allies in battle. I know this suggestion will cause some grumblings by people who use fear, but remember that this is an end spec line and that most PvP priests like to use the "melt face" shadow line. The main reason I suggest
this change is because of the sheer number of PvE mobs with AoE fear at the end game.

Confused, fear ward eats a fear - you say you want to impart fear into an enemy, we have this already and it's called psychic scream.

Item #2 - End spec line talent for Holy
Remove holy nova and replace it with a self buff only aggro reduction of holy spells. The reason why I suggest this is because of the rumors of the paladins Salvation is going to be greatly nerfed or outright removed in the near future because Horde does not have any counterpart to this.

At this point I do not know what percentage this buff should be and if it should supplement or add to the Subtly talent (which gives 20% aggro reduction for 5 points spent). Either way I would expect the total aggro reduction to be at least 45%.

Heals (in my opinion) tend to be the worst "total" aggro spells in the game...rivaling AoE nukes/dots. Most offensive AoE spells are point blank, cone, or fixed area circular not always affecting all mobs. Plus most AoEers can hold off casting a few seconds and generally not run into problems. Healers on the other hand can not hold off on their heals, because it will shortly create a dead player/group. Add to the fact that heals tend to get said healer on the hate list of all currently tagged mobs that are not under some form of crowd control.

If the agro reduction alone is not enough for the end line talent, could add minor fixed amount increases to all holy spells and/or a fixed reduction in casting time of all holy spells.

Removing Paladin salvation is going to be tough for alliance because they have built their playstyle over time factoring in the reduced aggro from the spell. The fact that it's being removed does not mean it should be replaced by something else on both sides. I have an undead priest and Horde priests do fine without it without salvation. Subtlety is our salvation spell, and there does not need to be another aggro reducing spell. Alliance priests will just have to adapt to twice the hate now (and people wonder why the first eight worldwide nefarion kills were by alliance guilds).

There needs to be a balance between being able to spam heals constantly and aggro, and reducing it by 45% is way too much. Blizzard screwed themselves on how they made the % of +healing items apply on how long the spellcast is (3.5 second or more base cast time healing spells gets 100% of +healing), lowering the cast time of spells will just negate +healing items as the cast time gets smaller. Allowing spells larger healing numbers produces more hate, so I am not sure what the solution is.

Item #3 - Changes to race priest spells
Since never played horde that much, I am not going to give input on them...that is better done by people who have horde priestly expertise.

3a - Human
Desperate prayer - good as is

Feedback (option #1) - Change the spell to be a targetable buff on other players. Spell power and duration are open to tweaking.

Racial buffs are borked. They need to be revamped totally. There was a balance when pre major nerf Wotf balanced out with dwarf fear ward, but the nerfs+pvp trinkets to wotf make it a useless spell.

 

[rstove02]

Originally posted by: abaez
Confused, fear ward eats a fear - you say you want to impart fear into an enemy, we have this already and it's called psychic scream.

I mean to impart their discipline of controling fear. In other words a heavy "disciplined" spec priest having so much control over one's self to impart this control onto allies by fear warding them.

Originally posted by: abaez
There needs to be a balance between being able to spam heals constantly and aggro, and reducing it by 45% is way too much. Blizzard screwed themselves on how they made the % of +healing items apply on how long the spellcast is (3.5 second or more base cast time healing spells gets 100% of +healing), lowering the cast time of spells will just negate +healing items as the cast time gets smaller. Allowing spells larger healing numbers produces more hate, so I am not sure what the solution is.

The 45% total might be pushing it a little twoo much, but remember that this would be the end of the holy spec tree. Plus this would still be 5% lower than a priest spec'ed with subtly (20% aggro reduction from heals) with a salvation buff from a paladin (30% general aggro reduction) resulting in 50% aggro reduction from heals.

 

[Noema]

I play a Shaman and I am, for the most part, happy with my class.

THe shaman has some weaknesses, but they are there by design. For example, the shaman is the only class without a stun, or a form of Crowd control. But giving that to Shaman would be very overpowered. So in terms of Balance, the shaman is alright. Having to cast totems every pull or every fight is also tiring, but many of them are quite powerful so I guess that balances it out.

What I think the problem of the Shaman is, is also a problem that pertains the 3 hybrid classes (the Paladin and the Druid as well). It mostly has to do with their end-game role and itemization: Whereas 'pure' classes such as the hunter, the rogue or the warrior benefit immensely from their epic sets (hunters and rogues get insane amount of Agility from their sets. They need only concentrate on that stat, and stamina to an extent, to increase their damage almost exponentially. Warriors need mainly strength and stamina, which they get plenty of from their Epic sets as well), hybrids need to juggle 5 stats in orded to be effective. So no piece is really an 'upgrade' for a hybrid in the way they upgrade the aforementioned classes. As an enhancement spec shaman, I need to juggle between stamina, intellect, spirit, strength and agility. If I get too much of one of those, I gimp myself in other stats. The shaman epic set gives you tons of spirit and intellect, but no strength or agility. The set works well as healbot gear, but it will gimp you for everything else.

 

[CKent]

Priests have the best healing in the game and can compete with rogues damage-wise, and you're complaining? 😕

My main is a rogue and I'd like to have my damage back. Since the nerfs, especially 1.8, warriors, hunters, mages, priests and druids can all make a serious run for me on the damage meters, and beat most other rogues. I don't really care about the PvP aspect of the game, and it's unfortunate that it's the only thing taken into account for class "balance".

 

[Concillian]

I play 60 warrior, 60 rogue, 60 priest and 55 warlock.

warrior, rogue and warlock are pretty good as is.

Recent changes to warlock has made them pretty powerful, with a few different good options for talent builds. They could use a bit better mana efficiency, and I'd like to see the capability for talents bringing fire damage to be more viable over SB spamming, or at least equal, but current warlock talents aren't bad at all.

Warrior and rogue are pretty nice right now. I think warriors are verging on overpowered how they are currently mapped out, especially given end-game itemization.

disc/holy priest needs some work. I'm not sure what to do, because blizzard has kind of painted themselves into a corner by making everyone pretty similar in terms of mana/healing ratio. They are fine at healing for raiding, and shadow priests are fine at damage. I think the biggest help would be to give them some PvP survivability talents in the holy tree to add viability for group PvP healing. And maybe some holy talent shuffling to make the holy tree at least as viable as the disc tree in raiding.

There are three different options that I see plausible for the latter part of the holy tree that is currently mostly useless given the way the discipline tree works.

Option 1) 21 point talent that allows Lesser Heal / Heal / Greater Heal to reduce significantly in cast time (40% at 5/5). Along with this would come a reduction in amount healed and mana cost as well. +heal items would work on the TALENTED cast time, not based on the original cast time. This gives customization to the priest as far as cast time and effectiveness of heals, and has plusses and minuses for both (faster heals will be less mana effiicent and get less bonus from +heal items, but they'll cast faster.)

The mana efficiency of Heal/ Greater heal would move down a slot to where the 0.5s cast time reduction is now. The problem with this talent option, is that the other healers would get real jealous of the ability to have 1.5, 2.1 and 2.6 second heals that were all viable, I could see some issue with that and backlash. Plus priests are pretty good in this kind of role anyway.

Option 2) Add some talents that work to singificantly improve the defensive capability of the holy spec priest, this specifically at targeting talents for a PvP healer priest. A PvP healing priest is toast against a team smart enough to focus first on the priests. This gives a significant advantage to alliance teams who will still have paladins able to dispel fear/sheep/sleep, but horde only has priests. Goes back to warriors being kinda overpowered.

A good team can't even help that much against 2 MS warriors on a holy/disc priest... if they're good, they'll be immune to fear by casting berserker rage before chaging in. Priest going DOWN QUICK. If they are sheeped, a good team will have a paladin dispelling the sheeps. Once the horde priests are down, nobody on horde side can dispel and the alliance mages are free to sheep, which makes defeating an even ratio horde team relatively trivial. Even if you take the warriors down that were hacking up the priests, the priests will go down, and once they do, the alliance has a huge advantage in cleanse. This is really an issue with cleanse being more powerful than purge overall (in anything but a 1v1 scenario... unless you have stupid paladins), but I don't think it would be overpowering to have priests with a chance at survival. They'd still be nothing like the '9 lives' paladins have.

I was thinking a seperate talent line, starting around 21 points holy or so, all linked. They would add maybe +defense skill or +armor, eventually leading to a skill that gives a straight -x% damage. Total of around 15% DR when added together, similar to shadowform, but with significantly more talent point investment.

Option 3) some transformative spell like shadowform for holy priests. The concept of holyform is nothing new, but my take on it is to not have it change healing capability across the board as it's very clear Blizzard doesn't want to do this. I suggest instead to either incorporate some damage reduction similar to Option 2 and/or some form of aura that gives an inherent + heal or fear resistance or even some % aggro reduction... something along those lines to those in range (small enough that it would put priests at risk in a raiding scenario if they want to be in range of the tank or melee rogues). Obviously you would be limited to holy/disc spells only, no shadow spells (including psychic scream and Pain)

If there was an aura effect, applicable to party members only and not raid members, so as to increase the need for party diversity and strategy in it's usage.

The alternative to an aura, is to give a large +heal bonus to spells cast ON the priest, but not BY the priest (unless cast on himself). This would have the bonus of helping the PvP scenario, but only helping groups organized enough to cross heal, etc...

Those are what I came up with for priests.

As for a talent allowing priests to have even less aggro, I don't think this is necessary. In a raiding scenario, additional healer aggro is not why BoSalvation is useful, it's DPS aggro. Several raiding priests don't even talent Subtlety. If a healer is pulling aggro in a raiding scenario, either your healing rotations are screwed up or your tank died. I know I wouldn't talent for it. If it was a single use castable on another, the sure it'd be useful to cast on a rogue or a warlock.

The problem is that in most of endgame, the entire holy tree below improved flash heal is useless in PvP and Imp. Prayer of healing is the only thing truly useful in PvE. Inner Focus negates most of the mana conservation benefit of the entire holy tree below those talents. You need something in the holy tree worth losing Inner Focus for. It has to be really good to skip Inner Focus to go 31 holy instead.

 

[abaez]

Originally posted by: rstove02
I mean to impart their discipline of controling fear. In other words a heavy "disciplined" spec priest having so much control over one's self to impart this control onto allies by fear warding them.

I see. Basically giving fear ward to other races - very viable, but I don't know if this is what blizzard wants. I think they made the special race attributes to make each race unique, but doing this, they need to be balanced.

The 45% total might be pushing it a little twoo much, but remember that this would be the end of the holy spec tree. Plus this would still be 5% lower than a priest spec'ed with subtly (20% aggro reduction from heals) with a salvation buff from a paladin (30% general aggro reduction) resulting in 50% aggro reduction from heals.

I don't think it's a simple 20% subtlety + 30% BOS, I think it's more inbetween 30-40%, still a significant jump from subtlety alone.

THe shaman has some weaknesses, but they are there by design. For example, the shaman is the only class without a stun, or a form of Crowd control.

Earthbind totem can be a very good form of crowd control, this is how we do razor (shamans run around in a circle kiting).

Priests have the best healing in the game and can compete with rogues damage-wise, and you're complaining?

Priests have the best healing spell in the game, but it's extremely situational - you will not use a 4 (or 3.5) second cast time greater heal with broodlord. There are several druid and shaman spells that are as efficient with lower cast times that are much better than priest spells. A good druid can heal just as well as a mediocre priest.

My main is a rogue and I'd like to have my damage back. Since the nerfs, especially 1.8, warriors, hunters, mages, priests and druids can all make a serious run for me on the damage meters, and beat most other rogues. I don't really care about the PvP aspect of the game, and it's unfortunate that it's the only thing taken into account for class "balance".

Rogues are not the be all end all in damage. They were never meant to be. A decked out warlock going full out with all his debuffs could outdps you easily (3000 crit shadowbolts). The thing that you have and warlocks don't is an aggro wiping ability. Warlocks can dps their hearts out but with a heavily aggro dependant area like BWL, they WILL get aggro and die, while rogues almost never do with feint (at least ours don't). While true that mages and warlocks get aggro reducing talents, feint is just so much more.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: abaez
Rogues are not the be all end all in damage. They were never meant to be. A decked out warlock going full out with all his debuffs could outdps you easily (3000 crit shadowbolts). The thing that you have and warlocks don't is an aggro wiping ability. Warlocks can dps their hearts out but with a heavily aggro dependant area like BWL, they WILL get aggro and die, while rogues almost never do with feint (at least ours don't). While true that mages and warlocks get aggro reducing talents, feint is just so much more.

Four main aspects to class balance; damage, tanking, healing and utility. Rogues don't have 2-4. Is WoW your first MMOG?

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: abaez
Rogues are not the be all end all in damage. They were never meant to be. A decked out warlock going full out with all his debuffs could outdps you easily (3000 crit shadowbolts). The thing that you have and warlocks don't is an aggro wiping ability. Warlocks can dps their hearts out but with a heavily aggro dependant area like BWL, they WILL get aggro and die, while rogues almost never do with feint (at least ours don't). While true that mages and warlocks get aggro reducing talents, feint is just so much more.

Four main aspects to class balance; damage, tanking, healing and utility. Rogues don't have 2-4. Is WoW your first MMOG?

rogues have limited utility. Well, if imp sap counts for that.

No healing though, unless you're gonna bandage everyone.

edit: it could be argued that stuns count for utility as well, but all the bosses are immune to stuns, so... yeah

 

[HardcoreRobot]

60 warlock:

harvest soul shards from any level creep
make one of our fears instant
decrease mana cost to our armor (killer mana eater in BG's)

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Tremulant

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: abaez
Rogues are not the be all end all in damage. They were never meant to be. A decked out warlock going full out with all his debuffs could outdps you easily (3000 crit shadowbolts). The thing that you have and warlocks don't is an aggro wiping ability. Warlocks can dps their hearts out but with a heavily aggro dependant area like BWL, they WILL get aggro and die, while rogues almost never do with feint (at least ours don't). While true that mages and warlocks get aggro reducing talents, feint is just so much more.

Four main aspects to class balance; damage, tanking, healing and utility. Rogues don't have 2-4. Is WoW your first MMOG?

rogues have limited utility. Well, if imp sap counts for that.

No healing though, unless you're gonna bandage everyone.

edit: it could be argued that stuns count for utility as well, but all the bosses are immune to stuns, so... yeah

Imp sap requires an investment of 18 points in the subtlety tree, something best avoided for dps-focused rogues, especially sword/mace users. Regardless, it and stuns - and stealth, for that matter - are useless in the end-game.

 

[Tremulant]

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: Tremulant

Originally posted by: RBachman

Originally posted by: abaez
Rogues are not the be all end all in damage. They were never meant to be. A decked out warlock going full out with all his debuffs could outdps you easily (3000 crit shadowbolts). The thing that you have and warlocks don't is an aggro wiping ability. Warlocks can dps their hearts out but with a heavily aggro dependant area like BWL, they WILL get aggro and die, while rogues almost never do with feint (at least ours don't). While true that mages and warlocks get aggro reducing talents, feint is just so much more.

Four main aspects to class balance; damage, tanking, healing and utility. Rogues don't have 2-4. Is WoW your first MMOG?

rogues have limited utility. Well, if imp sap counts for that.

No healing though, unless you're gonna bandage everyone.

edit: it could be argued that stuns count for utility as well, but all the bosses are immune to stuns, so... yeah

Imp sap requires an investment of 18 points in the subtlety tree, something best avoided for dps-focused rogues, especially sword/mace users. Regardless, it and stuns - and stealth, for that matter - are useless in the end-game.

True.

I do find it a good form of CC though, atleast when I'm soloing. Like, I was grinding the furblogs in felwood and I just realized that if I still had imp sap, it would've made it easier. (Sure, I could still sap, but then I'd lose my opener).

I've seen some nice hemo builds though. I'm tempted to respec to a hemo build, just to try it out. (I just hate giving up ambush/backstab, because I :heart: burst damage)

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: Noema
I play a Shaman and I am, for the most part, happy with my class.

THe shaman has some weaknesses, but they are there by design. For example, the shaman is the only class without a stun, or a form of Crowd control. But giving that to Shaman would be very overpowered. So in terms of Balance, the shaman is alright. Having to cast totems every pull or every fight is also tiring, but many of them are quite powerful so I guess that balances it out.

What I think the problem of the Shaman is, is also a problem that pertains the 3 hybrid classes (the Paladin and the Druid as well). It mostly has to do with their end-game role and itemization: Whereas 'pure' classes such as the hunter, the rogue or the warrior benefit immensely from their epic sets (hunters and rogues get insane amount of Agility from their sets. They need only concentrate on that stat, and stamina to an extent, to increase their damage almost exponentially. Warriors need mainly strength and stamina, which they get plenty of from their Epic sets as well), hybrids need to juggle 5 stats in orded to be effective. So no piece is really an 'upgrade' for a hybrid in the way they upgrade the aforementioned classes. As an enhancement spec shaman, I need to juggle between stamina, intellect, spirit, strength and agility. If I get too much of one of those, I gimp myself in other stats. The shaman epic set gives you tons of spirit and intellect, but no strength or agility. The set works well as healbot gear, but it will gimp you for everything else.

War stomp is a AOE stun up every 2 minutes. As far as CC, totems that slow movement help a bit in that respect.

 

[sparkyclarky]

Originally posted by: RBachman
Priests have the best healing in the game and can compete with rogues damage-wise, and you're complaining? 😕

My main is a rogue and I'd like to have my damage back. Since the nerfs, especially 1.8, warriors, hunters, mages, priests and druids can all make a serious run for me on the damage meters, and beat most other rogues. I don't really care about the PvP aspect of the game, and it's unfortunate that it's the only thing taken into account for class "balance".

Priests healing is the most versatile, but as far as HP healed per mana, druids are giving priests a run for their money (primarily due to their strong healing tree and priests utterly gimped healing tree). As far as damage getting near rogues, that is only true if you are heavily specced in shadow, which means you give up speccing heavily in disc with some in holy, a spec that is pretty much required if you're doing the 20man+raiding. The DPS from a non-shadow spec is laughable at best. The fact remains that a disc/holy, holy/disc priest has pretty much the worst class survivability in the game combined with some of the worst dps. Our only form of crowd control is on a 30/26 second timer, is heavily bugged, and can be trinketed out of. We can get nailed by debuffs that gimp healing or stop it entirely (a disc/holy priest that gets counterspelled while healing is dead in the water). Even if you argue that some of this shouldn't matter as the game is balanced towards group PVP, priests are still dead their as well, as they are the class that is universally targeted first. I pray that the 1.10 talent review seriously reworks these issues, as right now being a priest that isn't heavily in shadow is horrid when in any type of PVP situation (particularly noticeable, as I levelled from 1-60 with most points going in shadow, and when I dropped it I died a LOT more).

 

[rstove02]

Originally posted by: abaez
I see. Basically giving fear ward to other races - very viable, but I don't know if this is what blizzard wants. I think they made the special race attributes to make each race unique, but doing this, they need to be balanced.

Aye, that was the reason I would place ward fear at the end of the discipline line along with advanced aggro lowering with some heal boost for the end of the holy line. Was striving for something decent for the end of each talent line just like how shadowform is for the shadow line. That way the priest can only have 1 of the end talent powers. So the priest had to decide to focus on beefing up their damage, control (discipline) or healing as their primary skill.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: sparkyclarky

Originally posted by: RBachman
Priests have the best healing in the game and can compete with rogues damage-wise, and you're complaining? 😕

My main is a rogue and I'd like to have my damage back. Since the nerfs, especially 1.8, warriors, hunters, mages, priests and druids can all make a serious run for me on the damage meters, and beat most other rogues. I don't really care about the PvP aspect of the game, and it's unfortunate that it's the only thing taken into account for class "balance".

Priests healing is the most versatile, but as far as HP healed per mana, druids are giving priests a run for their money (primarily due to their strong healing tree and priests utterly gimped healing tree). As far as damage getting near rogues, that is only true if you are heavily specced in shadow, which means you give up speccing heavily in disc with some in holy, a spec that is pretty much required if you're doing the 20man+raiding. The DPS from a non-shadow spec is laughable at best. The fact remains that a disc/holy, holy/disc priest has pretty much the worst class survivability in the game combined with some of the worst dps. Our only form of crowd control is on a 30/26 second timer, is heavily bugged, and can be trinketed out of. We can get nailed by debuffs that gimp healing or stop it entirely (a disc/holy priest that gets counterspelled while healing is dead in the water). Even if you argue that some of this shouldn't matter as the game is balanced towards group PVP, priests are still dead their as well, as they are the class that is universally targeted first. I pray that the 1.10 talent review seriously reworks these issues, as right now being a priest that isn't heavily in shadow is horrid when in any type of PVP situation (particularly noticeable, as I levelled from 1-60 with most points going in shadow, and when I dropped it I died a LOT more).

Healing efficiency is only one part of healing. If the healer gets aggrod and dies he'll be unable to heal further. PW:S and fade are huge boons to the job of healing. Overall, druids don't come close. A shadow-specced priest still has very efficient heals and can fade/PW:S. Don't give me the garbage about needing to pop out of shadow form; can rogues pop into priest form and lay down some 3k healing? The jack of all trades cannot be the master of any; making them such creates vast imbalance. See shamans/paladins - people whine enough about them, yet they haven't the tanking of warriors, the healing of priests nor the damage of rogues - not even close in any of those areas. They are balanced hybrids. It's unfortunate that PvP plays such a large factor (is the sole factor, really) in WoW class balance. You *cannot* have both PvE balance and PvP balance; they're mutually exclusive unless you make every class the same.