YAWoWT: Need before Greed

[rstove02]

Out of all the group loot settings, I enjoy the "Need Before Greed" one the most. That being said...I do have one thing I do not like about it.

On armor drops it allows high defense armor wearers to roll on the classes below it. For example a plate wearer can roll on cloth armor pieces.

I know that just plain locking it to your armor type would not be a fully viable solution because sometimes a drop is so good that it is worth sacrificing an armor class of protection to get it.

I wish "Need Before Greed" had a submenu of:
Armor class 0
Armor class -1
Armor class -2
Armor class -3

Armor class 0:
You can only roll on items of your max armor class.
A plate wearer can roll on only platerl drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on only mail drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on only leather drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on only cloth drops.

Armor class -1:
You can roll on items of your max armor class or one lower.
A plate wearer can only roll on plate/mail drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on mail/leather drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on leather/cloth drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on cloth drops.

Armor class -2:
You can roll on items of your max armor class or up to two lower.
A plate wearer can only roll on plate/mail/leather drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on mail/leather/cloth drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on leather/cloth drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on cloth drops.

Armor class -3 (this is how current Need Before Greed works):
You can roll on items of your max armor class or up to three lower.
A plate wearer can only roll on plate/mail/leather/cloth drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on mail/leather/cloth drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on leather/cloth drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on cloth drops.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

agreed, just because they *can* equip it, doesnt mean it is suitable for them

 

[torpid]

NBG only solves one problem, that being other people rolling on something you need but which they can't equip. Even your solution would not prevent people from rolling out of greed before need. A warrior could still roll on a nice gun despite having no need for high damage guns, for example. Furthermore some classes have increased need for certain armor types. A hunter doesn't need high armor as much as a shaman, for example. A rogue needs stronger armor than a druid (generally, of course).

What really should happen is that people should be able to veto a roll by someone else. Say if all 4 party members agree he shouldn't have rolled. You should also be able to cancel a roll. Finally, you should be able to trade a BoP item among the people who rolled on it before equipping it. I realize those things could cause increased conflict and cheaters, which is why it would need to be another setting.

 

[GasX]

Nothing like rolling for a sweet piece of BoP cloth armor that is an upgrade for you and losing to a warrior who will sell it...

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Nothing like rolling for a sweet piece of BoP cloth armor that is an upgrade for you and losing to a warrior who will sell it...

Yep. My story above about the gun is a real one. We were doing maraudon and the warrior wanted the tinker's shield. The gun drops and he says "bull****" and then rolls on the gun. The gun *may* have been slightly better than my bow. Needless to say I, a hunter, lost the roll, and he sold the gun. However, karmic justice did later come into play when a druid rolled on a +str +stam ring off the uldaman boss with the above warrior in the party.

 

[NeoV]

I think you take this discussion a bit too far if you start talking about rings or trinkets being class-specific - I agree if they are going to sell it, but if you think they shouldn't equip it because of their class, that's crossing the line of item complaining, IMO

 

[torpid]

The ring wasn't class specific, but the point was that the druid rolled accidentally and delivered karmic justice to the guy, who was the only one who would have actually used it. I didn't even mention that the guy flipped his lid in protest at that despite having done the same or worse (the druid at least admitted his mistake) to me less than 1 day earlier.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: NeoV
I think you take this discussion a bit too far if you start talking about rings or trinkets being class-specific - I agree if they are going to sell it, but if you think they shouldn't equip it because of their class, that's crossing the line of item complaining, IMO

If there is a + Str / + Agi rink and my warlock rolls on it, I am an asshole.
(or more of an asshole...)

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Nothing like rolling for a sweet piece of BoP cloth armor that is an upgrade for you and losing to a warrior who will sell it...

Yep. My story above about the gun is a real one. We were doing maraudon and the warrior wanted the tinker's shield. The gun drops and he says "bull****" and then rolls on the gun. The gun *may* have been slightly better than my bow. Needless to say I, a hunter, lost the roll, and he sold the gun. However, karmic justice did later come into play when a druid rolled on a +str +stam ring off the uldaman boss with the above warrior in the party.

Why would you party with that ass again?!

 

[blazerazor]

I roll on everything, unless I know you want something, cause mounts are EXPENSIVE and I need one soon.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: blazerazor
I roll on everything, unless I know you want something, cause mounts are EXPENSIVE and I need one soon.

Oh, your class doesn't get one for free?

 

[Litchfield285]

rolling on all BoE is cool as long as youre willing to give it to someone who really needs it... and if youre in a party with me and you roll on a BoP that you cant use then youre immediately out of the group and blacklisted with my guild...

ive only ran into 1 or 2 idiots so far that we had to boot and blacklist with my guild... the higher you get in lvl the more it seems that people understand how to play the game and have invested so much time in their characters they dont want to make a bad name for themselves...

 

[CVSiN]

Originally posted by: rstove02
Out of all the group loot settings, I enjoy the "Need Before Greed" one the most. That being said...I do have one thing I do not like about it.

On armor drops it allows high defense armor wearers to roll on the classes below it. For example a plate wearer can roll on cloth armor pieces.

I know that just plain locking it to your armor type would not be a fully viable solution because sometimes a drop is so good that it is worth sacrificing an armor class of protection to get it.

I wish "Need Before Greed" had a submenu of:
Armor class 0
Armor class -1
Armor class -2
Armor class -3

Armor class 0:
You can only roll on items of your max armor class.
A plate wearer can roll on only platerl drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on only mail drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on only leather drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on only cloth drops.

Armor class -1:
You can roll on items of your max armor class or one lower.
A plate wearer can only roll on plate/mail drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on mail/leather drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on leather/cloth drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on cloth drops.

Armor class -2:
You can roll on items of your max armor class or up to two lower.
A plate wearer can only roll on plate/mail/leather drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on mail/leather/cloth drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on leather/cloth drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on cloth drops.

Armor class -3 (this is how current Need Before Greed works):
You can roll on items of your max armor class or up to three lower.
A plate wearer can only roll on plate/mail/leather/cloth drops.
A mail wearer can only roll on mail/leather/cloth drops.
A leather wearer can only roll on leather/cloth drops.
A cloth wearer can only roll on cloth drops.

Exactly why you dont group with anyone but friends and guild members....
there is no problems with this...

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: HardcoreRobot

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Nothing like rolling for a sweet piece of BoP cloth armor that is an upgrade for you and losing to a warrior who will sell it...

Yep. My story above about the gun is a real one. We were doing maraudon and the warrior wanted the tinker's shield. The gun drops and he says "bull****" and then rolls on the gun. The gun *may* have been slightly better than my bow. Needless to say I, a hunter, lost the roll, and he sold the gun. However, karmic justice did later come into play when a druid rolled on a +str +stam ring off the uldaman boss with the above warrior in the party.

Why would you party with that ass again?!

Because I figured it was an accident and/or mistake and am a forgiving guy. It didn't bother me all that much until the same thing happened to him and he went totally insane.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Exactly why you dont group with anyone but friends and guild members....
there is no problems with this...

Must be nice to have guild leadership that is more stringent in membership requirements.

 

[Litchfield285]

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Exactly why you dont group with anyone but friends and guild members....
there is no problems with this...

Must be nice to have guild leadership that is more stringent in membership requirements.

doesnt always take having a guild with stringent membership requirements... it just takes having leaders that are willing to kick asshats out of the guild the second they do something retarded...

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: CVSiN
Exactly why you dont group with anyone but friends and guild members....
there is no problems with this...

:thumbsup: Even pickup groups at higher levels mostly have brighter & more mature members who'll be less greedy, though another problem can crop up when people get something they can use which would be an upgrade, but sell it anyway - the lure of shiny gold is stronger than the lure of upgrades for many people. I don't personally understand it, but have observed this in EQ as well. Essentially, get into a decent guild (ie. don't join <L33tmasturz uv Azurauth>, don't join when given random invites, and try to make sure it's generally high level) and you won't have this problem.

 

[abaez]

As a priest I insist on master looter for pickup raid groups. They can find another priest/healer if they don't like it. Edit: Doesn't have to be me, just someone competent and fair.

 

[torpid]

Yes, I greatly prefer master looter. If I didn't have such an inferiority complex, I would demand it every time. Right now I only consider it when I am the leader and have at least one other person who is an enchanter.

 

[Gurck]

Eww.. I hate master looting, I simply don't trust people.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: Gurck
Eww.. I hate master looting, I simply don't trust people.

I generally trust one person in my party almost fully, and often one person not at all. The main problem with master looter is that if no one needs it and everyone wants it for $, it sometimes takes too much effort to explain to people how to use the random function, even though a monkey could figure it out.

 

[replicator]

Instead of the built in Need before Greed system, most of the players that I have played with use the so called "G/N system" with regular group loot, and it seems most veteran players are using it now.

Basically, if you WILL use the item if you win it, say "N". If you want the item to SELL or DISENCHANT, say "G".
All the people who say "G" must pass if anyone in the party says "N".

If everyone says "G", everyone rolls.

This will maximize everyones chance of getting something they need, and avoid the problem of having people roll on stuff they 'could' use, but won't because they have something better.

 

[ArmchairAthlete]

Don't party with retarded people =) Get in a good guild.

 

[erikistired]

Originally posted by: Litchfield285
rolling on all BoE is cool as long as youre willing to give it to someone who really needs it... and if youre in a party with me and you roll on a BoP that you cant use then youre immediately out of the group and blacklisted with my guild...

ive only ran into 1 or 2 idiots so far that we had to boot and blacklist with my guild... the higher you get in lvl the more it seems that people understand how to play the game and have invested so much time in their characters they dont want to make a bad name for themselves...

that's how we are as well. i'm one of 2 lvl 60s in my guild so i'm forced to group outside for the high lvl stuff, and i have no problem kicking you out of my group if you roll on BoP items you aren't going to use when someone else needs it. of course if i'm running the group i always state this in advance, and if i'm not i ask the group leader what his policies are before entering an instance. i don't have 2-3 hours to waste in strath only to find out some idiot is going to roll on things he's going to vendor.

with bigger raid groups i see a lot of master loot, the group leader lets everyone know what dropped and whoever needs it /randoms for it.

 

[Sunner]

I must be the luckiest guy in the world.
In every complaining post about WoW I see, it's about others behaving like asshats.

I've yet to run into one single asshat at all, all the groups I've been in, we've all been fair and nice to each other, my warrior doesn't roll on cloth armor, the mage doesn't roll on +Str/Agil rings, etc etc, and basically just respecting each other has worked so well this far, and I'm not even in a guild, I group with people I don't know at all 95% of the time.

I must be doing something wrong...