YAU(Union)T

[gar3555]

Protest to keep plant open

The CAW is protesting to keep a plant that makes full sized trucks open, just they can get over paid. The CAW is worse than the UAW IMHO.


For reference, I've worked with the CAW at that same Oshawa plant, as well as at the Oakville Assembly plant, and these guys are the worst.

 

[Ns1]

lol; how stupid

 

[Cattlegod]

I've heard horror stories about the guys at the oakville plant. Complete waste of flesh.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: gar3555
Protest to keep plant open

The CAW is protesting to keep a plant that makes full sized trucks open, just they can get over paid. The CAW is worse than the UAW IMHO.


For reference, I've worked with the CAW at that same Oshawa plant, as well as at the Oakville Assembly plant, and these guys are the worst.

The GM plant there got a few hundred million dollars in tax breaks/benefits from the Oshawa government and Ontario government as part of a contract to keep 16k workers on average employed for 30 years or so. They still have 10 years on that contract they signed to uphold afaik. These guys actually have a real beef with GM.

 

[ElFenix]

the F-series was outsold by 4 cars last month. the truck is dead.

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: gar3555
Protest to keep plant open

The CAW is protesting to keep a plant that makes full sized trucks open, just they can get over paid. The CAW is worse than the UAW IMHO.


For reference, I've worked with the CAW at that same Oshawa plant, as well as at the Oakville Assembly plant, and these guys are the worst.

The GM plant there got a few hundred million dollars in tax breaks/benefits from the Oshawa government and Ontario government as part of a contract to keep 16k workers on average employed for 30 years or so. They still have 10 years on that contract they signed to uphold afaik. These guys actually have a real beef with GM.

That sounds like it's between the city of Oshawa/Province Ontario Gov't and GM, not the union. If its not profitable why keep building it? To create more debt for em, as these full sized trucks sit on lots and rot?

 

[GTaudiophile]

As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these# and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

If they gotta pay 16K workers for 10 more years at 90% unemployment pay as per many normal union rules, that pretty much eliminates the budget to refit the entire plant to make a smaller car. GM will have to pay these greedy union employees whether they work or not.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these# and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

If they gotta pay 16K workers for 10 more years at 90% unemployment pay as per many normal union rules, that pretty much eliminates the budget to refit the entire plant to make a smaller car. GM will have to pay these greedy union employees whether they work or not.

I predict unions for the most part will go the way of the pension in the 21st Century...meaning into nonexistence.

 

[xanis]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

GM is already making Opels/Vauxhalls here in America in the forms of certain Saturns (Aura, Astra, and Sky I believe). Shouldn't be too hard.

 

[alkemyst]

it's time unions leave our soil. They had a nice purpose once, but now have grown greedy.

add in lobbies too.

the US is heading downhill fast unless we cut the fat.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

GM is already making Opels/Vauxhalls here in America in the forms of certain Saturns (Aura, Astra, and Sky I believe). Shouldn't be too hard.

Except they'd have to build an entire plant to manufacture cars that they can probably manufacture by hiring another shift at the existing plant with no extra capital costs -- and that's assuming they can't make enough of them already, which they probably can.

 

[AmpedSilence]

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

GM is already making Opels/Vauxhalls here in America in the forms of certain Saturns (Aura, Astra, and Sky I believe). Shouldn't be too hard.

Can worker who is skilled specifically to F series trucks be able to build a smaller car?

(sarcasm and slight curiosity are both in that question)

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: GT audiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these# and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

If they gotta pay 16K workers for 10 more years at 90% unemployment pay as per many normal union rules, that pretty much eliminates the budget to refit the entire plant to make a smaller car. GM will have to pay these greedy union employees whether they work or not.

I don't know how they do it in Canada, but here in the states of that 90% a portion comes from the state (as unemployment) and the remainder from the UAW as sub pay. Yes, the union dues that UAW members pay funds that portion of their pay when unemployed. Total cost to GM = $0. That's right zero.

Yes, the argument can be made that GM pays into a pool that covers unemployment benefits, but that is by law. Every business does.

As I said, I don't know how they do it in Canada.

Next time you refer to "greedy union employees", please have your facts straight.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: gar3555
Protest to keep plant open

The CAW is protesting to keep a plant that makes full sized trucks open, just they can get over paid. The CAW is worse than the UAW IMHO.


For reference, I've worked with the CAW at that same Oshawa plant, as well as at the Oakville Assembly plant, and these guys are the worst.

The GM plant there got a few hundred million dollars in tax breaks/benefits from the Oshawa government and Ontario government as part of a contract to keep 16k workers on average employed for 30 years or so. They still have 10 years on that contract they signed to uphold afaik. These guys actually have a real beef with GM.

That sounds like it's between the city of Oshawa/Province Ontario Gov't and GM, not the union. If its not profitable why keep building it? To create more debt for em, as these full sized trucks sit on lots and rot?

Oh I'm not saying the Union has anything to do with it. By jumping out of there contract and letting the City/Province/Union all know about the cuts through the media they kinda brought everyone into it. I'm one of the most anti-union people on this board, but GM brought this headache on there own stupidity.

As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

There is talk of doing that already so as not having to pay the half billion dollar cost of voiding the contract plus all the termination fees ect. There are a few other vehicles coming into production that the plant can cheaply be converted to make as well. I think the Union blew there wad too fast with this, but GM did sort of fuck them around royally this time so they were probably just scared.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: GT audiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these# and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

If they gotta pay 16K workers for 10 more years at 90% unemployment pay as per many normal union rules, that pretty much eliminates the budget to refit the entire plant to make a smaller car. GM will have to pay these greedy union employees whether they work or not.

I don't know how they do it in Canada, but here in the states of that 90% a portion comes from the state (as unemployment) and the remainder from the UAW as sub pay. Yes, the union dues that UAW members pay funds that portion of their pay when unemployed. Total cost to GM = $0. That's right zero.

Yes, the argument can be made that GM pays into a pool that covers unemployment benefits, but that is by law. Every business does.

As I said, I don't know how they do it in Canada.

Next time you refer to "greedy union employees", please have your facts straight.

Doesn't UAW only cover pay when workers are striking? I don't think would pay workers who have been laid off.

 

[boomerang]

All this talk of building smaller cars in the plant in Canada assumes that GM actually needs the capacity of that plant to build smaller cars. Do they? Do any of you actually know? Maybe what GM needs right now is fewer employees. I'm thinking this could be the reasoning behind their decision.

Nothing GM, (or any other U.S. car company) is going to do is ever going to satisfy you guys. You're smarter than them all, you have greater insight into everything automotive related. It comes through loud and clear here. It's been going on forever here and it's all been said over and over. Grow up and get over it. You don't like domestics - don't buy them. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, the CAW has put themselves out of business by not agreeing to a similar wage and benefit agreement as was agreed upon by the UAW here in the states. That's why their agreement took an extremely short time to be hammered out. GM chose not to have a long drawn out process with them knowing full well they would just close them down and be rid of them once and for all.

Good business decision, but you guys don't like this one either.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: GT audiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these# and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

If they gotta pay 16K workers for 10 more years at 90% unemployment pay as per many normal union rules, that pretty much eliminates the budget to refit the entire plant to make a smaller car. GM will have to pay these greedy union employees whether they work or not.

I don't know how they do it in Canada, but here in the states of that 90% a portion comes from the state (as unemployment) and the remainder from the UAW as sub pay. Yes, the union dues that UAW members pay funds that portion of their pay when unemployed. Total cost to GM = $0. That's right zero.

Yes, the argument can be made that GM pays into a pool that covers unemployment benefits, but that is by law. Every business does.

As I said, I don't know how they do it in Canada.

Next time you refer to "greedy union employees", please have your facts straight.

Doesn't UAW only cover pay when workers are striking? I don't think would pay workers who have been laid off.

No, they cover laid off workers too, have for a long time. Last I knew, it was for one year. With the new contract, that may have changed.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these# and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

If they gotta pay 16K workers for 10 more years at 90% unemployment pay as per many normal union rules, that pretty much eliminates the budget to refit the entire plant to make a smaller car. GM will have to pay these greedy union employees whether they work or not.

I predict unions for the most part will go the way of the pension in the 21st Century...meaning into nonexistence.

Obama will strengthen union power and history will repeat itself.

REVOLUCION

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: boomerang
All this talk of building smaller cars in the plant in Canada assumes that GM actually needs the capacity of that plant to build smaller cars. Do they? Do any of you actually know? Maybe what GM needs right now is fewer employees. I'm thinking this could be the reasoning behind their decision.

Nothing GM, (or any other U.S. car company) is going to do is ever going to satisfy you guys. You're smarter than them all, you have greater insight into everything automotive related. It comes through loud and clear here. It's been going on forever here and it's all been said over and over. Grow up and get over it. You don't like domestics - don't buy them. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, the CAW has put themselves out of business by not agreeing to a similar wage and benefit agreement as was agreed upon by the UAW here in the states. That's why their agreement took an extremely short time to be hammered out. GM chose not to have a long drawn out process with them knowing full well they would just close them down and be rid of them once and for all.

Good business decision, but you guys don't like this one either.

So GM should be off the hook for the contract they signed with the City of Oshawa and Ontario government in order to secure a ton of handouts when they were struggling? I guess corporations don't need any responsibility for there contracts they sign in your world huh.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: boomerang
All this talk of building smaller cars in the plant in Canada assumes that GM actually needs the capacity of that plant to build smaller cars. Do they? Do any of you actually know? Maybe what GM needs right now is fewer employees. I'm thinking this could be the reasoning behind their decision.

Nothing GM, (or any other U.S. car company) is going to do is ever going to satisfy you guys. You're smarter than them all, you have greater insight into everything automotive related. It comes through loud and clear here. It's been going on forever here and it's all been said over and over. Grow up and get over it. You don't like domestics - don't buy them. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, the CAW has put themselves out of business by not agreeing to a similar wage and benefit agreement as was agreed upon by the UAW here in the states. That's why their agreement took an extremely short time to be hammered out. GM chose not to have a long drawn out process with them knowing full well they would just close them down and be rid of them once and for all.

Good business decision, but you guys don't like this one either.

So GM should be off the hook for the contract they signed with the City of Oshawa and Ontario government in order to secure a ton of handouts when they were struggling? I guess corporations don't need any responsibility for there contracts they sign in your world huh.

I would imagine the structure be 30 years of tax "incentive" for GM to open the plant. That does not mean they have to stay in business if it's unprofitable - it just means they have 30 years of preferable tax treatment.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: boomerang
All this talk of building smaller cars in the plant in Canada assumes that GM actually needs the capacity of that plant to build smaller cars. Do they? Do any of you actually know? Maybe what GM needs right now is fewer employees. I'm thinking this could be the reasoning behind their decision.

Nothing GM, (or any other U.S. car company) is going to do is ever going to satisfy you guys. You're smarter than them all, you have greater insight into everything automotive related. It comes through loud and clear here. It's been going on forever here and it's all been said over and over. Grow up and get over it. You don't like domestics - don't buy them. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, the CAW has put themselves out of business by not agreeing to a similar wage and benefit agreement as was agreed upon by the UAW here in the states. That's why their agreement took an extremely short time to be hammered out. GM chose not to have a long drawn out process with them knowing full well they would just close them down and be rid of them once and for all.

Good business decision, but you guys don't like this one either.

So GM should be off the hook for the contract they signed with the City of Oshawa and Ontario government in order to secure a ton of handouts when they were struggling? I guess corporations don't need any responsibility for there contracts they sign in your world huh.

I don't know anything about that agreement. I see only your words, but no hard information to back it up. Don't misunderstand, because I have no reason to doubt what you say is true.

I will say this. If GM is breaking their agreement, that is wrong. As wrong as it gets. But, I think if it could be fully researched, I think you'd find that they are not breaking any agreement because there is a stamping facility in Oshawa. That is remaining open. They will be making a lot of the outer sheet metal for the Camaro.

GM is not as dumb as everyone thinks they are. They would get their asses sued off it they were to break such an agreement. We don't know the full details.

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: boomerang
All this talk of building smaller cars in the plant in Canada assumes that GM actually needs the capacity of that plant to build smaller cars. Do they? Do any of you actually know? Maybe what GM needs right now is fewer employees. I'm thinking this could be the reasoning behind their decision.

Nothing GM, (or any other U.S. car company) is going to do is ever going to satisfy you guys. You're smarter than them all, you have greater insight into everything automotive related. It comes through loud and clear here. It's been going on forever here and it's all been said over and over. Grow up and get over it. You don't like domestics - don't buy them. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, the CAW has put themselves out of business by not agreeing to a similar wage and benefit agreement as was agreed upon by the UAW here in the states. That's why their agreement took an extremely short time to be hammered out. GM chose not to have a long drawn out process with them knowing full well they would just close them down and be rid of them once and for all.

Good business decision, but you guys don't like this one either.

So GM should be off the hook for the contract they signed with the City of Oshawa and Ontario government in order to secure a ton of handouts when they were struggling? I guess corporations don't need any responsibility for there contracts they sign in your world huh.

I don't know anything about that agreement. I see only your words, but no hard information to back it up. Don't misunderstand, because I have no reason to doubt what you say is true.

I will say this. If GM is breaking their agreement, that is wrong. As wrong as it gets. But, I think if it could be fully researched, I think you'd find that they are not breaking any agreement because there is a stamping facility in Oshawa. That is remaining open. They will be making a lot of the outer sheet metal for the Camaro.

GM is not as dumb as everyone thinks they are. They would get their asses sued off it they were to break such an agreement. We don't know the full details.

Actually they will be assembling the new camaro in Oshawa as well. I'm not sure if it is the same plant, probably not or these people wouldn't be protesting.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: boomerang
All this talk of building smaller cars in the plant in Canada assumes that GM actually needs the capacity of that plant to build smaller cars. Do they? Do any of you actually know? Maybe what GM needs right now is fewer employees. I'm thinking this could be the reasoning behind their decision.

Nothing GM, (or any other U.S. car company) is going to do is ever going to satisfy you guys. You're smarter than them all, you have greater insight into everything automotive related. It comes through loud and clear here. It's been going on forever here and it's all been said over and over. Grow up and get over it. You don't like domestics - don't buy them. Plain and simple.

Having said all that, the CAW has put themselves out of business by not agreeing to a similar wage and benefit agreement as was agreed upon by the UAW here in the states. That's why their agreement took an extremely short time to be hammered out. GM chose not to have a long drawn out process with them knowing full well they would just close them down and be rid of them once and for all.

Good business decision, but you guys don't like this one either.

So GM should be off the hook for the contract they signed with the City of Oshawa and Ontario government in order to secure a ton of handouts when they were struggling? I guess corporations don't need any responsibility for there contracts they sign in your world huh.

I don't know anything about that agreement. I see only your words, but no hard information to back it up. Don't misunderstand, because I have no reason to doubt what you say is true.

I will say this. If GM is breaking their agreement, that is wrong. As wrong as it gets. But, I think if it could be fully researched, I think you'd find that they are not breaking any agreement because there is a stamping facility in Oshawa. That is remaining open. They will be making a lot of the outer sheet metal for the Camaro.

GM is not as dumb as everyone thinks they are. They would get their asses sued off it they were to break such an agreement. We don't know the full details.

I understand. Also the Union feels a sense of betrayal since just as recently as May 16th GM committed itself to the plant after the CAW gave a ton of concessions in bargaining. So its more like "well give all these things to you if you stay, k?" "sure sounds good" "two weeks later" "ah, nvm, just kidding".

Yeah, its complicated though, Pretty screwed up system that had been working until now at the Oshawa plant.

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: AmpedSilence

Originally posted by: Xanis

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
As far as I know, GM owns Opel/Vauxhall...so why not convert the factory to make these and these.

Or does that make too much sense for GM?

GM is already making Opels/Vauxhalls here in America in the forms of certain Saturns (Aura, Astra, and Sky I believe). Shouldn't be too hard.

Can worker who is skilled specifically to F series trucks be able to build a smaller car?

(sarcasm and slight curiosity are both in that question)

f-series is ford right?