YATTT(Yet another traffic ticket thread)

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Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
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UPDATE:

Just wanted to provide an update.

I went to court about 45 minutes early. Found the officer that gave me the ticket. I asked her if there was anything she could do to the ticket so that I wouldn't have to actually go into court. She said that she had no power to lower the fine but she could adjust the points. It was only a 2 point violation so I said that I wasn't really concerned about the points, but more so over the fine because I found it to be high for the violation I committed.

She agreed but she can't change the amount on the ticket. She asked the clerk who the judge was that day. I asked her how to approach the topic in court. She asked if she could step away for a few to check something.

She came back and told me that she would help me out because the judge on duty wasn't going to do squat for me. She said she would ask for a continuance for my case until April. She would then void my existing ticket and rewrite a new ticket for me. The new ticket would be for a lesser offense.

0 points and $76 fine.

Considering what I was dealing with, I felt that was a win.

Cliffs:
Went to court
Talked to officer
Voided existing ticket
Rewrote ticket for lesser offense for a lot less money and less points
W00T!!









Ok, I don't get many traffic tickets. Probably 3-4 over the past 15 years.

Last Friday I was going to dinner. The traffic light ahead was backed up about 3/4 mile. I decided to make a left on one the streets before the light. It is a shortcut to the restaurant.

I moved left into the median and drove 50-100ft and made my left onto the street I wanted. I was pulled over for "illegal" lane use. $232 fine.

I got a speeding ticket about 4 years old in the same town. I went to court and the judge told people, "If you plead not guilty, I will throw the book at you if you are found guilty". To me that is intimidation.

This go around, the police have very little evidence against me in my opinion. They have that I traveled in the median to make a left turn. I am going to lookup the statutes and see how far I am allowed to travel in the median and such.

However, my real question is: Can a judge really use intimidation like that to try to get guilty pleas?

I have considered if the judge does the same thing this go around, I will ask for a jury trial. I think it might be worth the chance of being found guilty since there is very little concrete evidence against me.
 
Modeps

Modeps

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
17,254
44
91
You did something wrong and you're saying "well they dont have any evidence"
They never have "evidence" that people are talking on their cell phones either, but that doesn't stop the police from giving out citations.

America rules.
 
C

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
MS paint picture required please.
Click to expand...

Posting from a mac :) No MS paint available.

It is really simple. Four lane road with a median in the middle to use for left turns. It isn't an issue with me using it to make my left turn. It is an issue of how far I traveled in the median prior to turning.


 
allisolm

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,318
4,984
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Is it like this (Diagram 2-28)?

If so, I don't know what the laws are about it but this is the way I have always seen it:
1. If I drove over any of the arrows that go in the opposite direction, I did it wrong.
2. If I drove past any road on which I could have turned left and I didn't, I did it wrong.
3. If I drove past the entrance to a business where I could have turned and I didn't, I did it wrong. note - this one is a little more open to wiggle room depending on how close together the entrances are.

Is it a major crime? Not in my book. A lot like cutting through the corner gas station in order to avoid having to stop at the traffic light. Annoying to others and a ticketable offense but that's all.

Did you probably blow past people who were patiently waiting in line and manage to piss off a cop? Looks like it.

Good luck if you decide to fight it.
 
U

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,632
3,045
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In Ca you're allowed to drive 200ft to make the turn. Don't know about your state. You may have a good case.
 
Ricemarine

Ricemarine

Lifer
Sep 10, 2004
10,507
0
0
Originally posted by: uclaLabrat
In Ca you're allowed to drive 200ft to make the turn. Don't know about your state. You may have a good case.
Click to expand...

Washington allows 100 feet. But in the SC driving manual, it only says you can only be in a two-way left-turn lane when preparing for and making a left turn. There's also the rule in the SC manual that states a person should signal at least 100 feet ahead.... So... general interpretation.
 
C

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
Originally posted by: allisolm
Is it like this (Diagram 2-28)?

If so, I don't know what the laws are about it but this is the way I have always seen it:
1. If I drove over any of the arrows that go in the opposite direction, I did it wrong.
2. If I drove past any road on which I could have turned left and I didn't, I did it wrong.
3. If I drove past the entrance to a business where I could have turned and I didn't, I did it wrong. note - this one is a little more open to wiggle room depending on how close together the entrances are.

Is it a major crime? Not in my book. A lot like cutting through the corner gas station in order to avoid having to stop at the traffic light. Annoying to others and a ticketable offense but that's all.

Did you probably blow past people who were patiently waiting in line and manage to piss off a cop? Looks like it.

Good luck if you decide to fight it.
Click to expand...

No, this was a sting operation. I believe they had a cop watching for people doing it. When I made my left turn on the street, I see a cop about 20 feet ahead who signaled for me to pull over. Then another cop showed up to give me the actual ticket.

They had about 6 cars pulled over on the street I turned on. Basically it was a simple way for them to make a little cash quickly for the city.

Rickmarine is probably correct because I haven't researched it yet. If that is the case I have zero case. I was hoping for something like 100ft so it would be disputable about how far I drove in it.

Trust me if I was planning to go straight, I wouldn't have made this left turn. It wasn't to bypass any traffic pattern. It was simply to make a left turn prior to the traffic light ahead that was backing everything up.

I didn't cut off any cars looking to make the left.
 
C

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
Originally posted by: BudAshes
Originally posted by: meltdown75
hmm. i think you missed my post.
Click to expand...

obviously he doesn't think he's guilty. How dumb are you?
Click to expand...

Actually, guilty or not, my question is still valid.....

Can a judge use intimidation to try and get guilty pleas?
 
K

Kabrinski

Senior member
Oct 21, 2002
316
0
0
Just got to look up the laws on it in your area. Around here I think you are allowed to do that to because it "helps alleviate traffic" or something like that. Not sure about exact distances involved with it, but I have gone at least that far to turn left. A couple times in front of a cop. No one ever said anything.

But to answer your question:

However, my real question is: Can a judge really use intimidation like that to try to get guilty pleas?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, he can't. But he will probably be able to get away with it whether he can or can't do it.
 
J

jdobratz

Member
Sep 29, 2004
161
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76
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Originally posted by: BudAshes
Originally posted by: meltdown75
hmm. i think you missed my post.
Click to expand...

obviously he doesn't think he's guilty. How dumb are you?
Click to expand...

Actually, guilty or not, my question is still valid.....

Can a judge use intimidation to try and get guilty pleas?
Click to expand...

The answer to that should be fairly obvious, no.
 
mugs

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
What is the nature of this "median"? A median is usually a strip of grass or concrete between opposing lanes. Are you talking about a center turn lane that facilitates left turns from either direction (with solid yellow lines on the outside on each side and dotted yellow lines on the inside on each side)? I think you can drive in those for a reasonable distance, but I wonder if your 50-100 ft is really a good estimate.

If it's a non-traffic lane median where you're not allowed to drive at all, I don't see how you'll get out of this.

Edit:
Re: the "intimidation" - I think that depends on whether or not you misinterpreted this supposed intimidation. It sounds to me like he was offering to let you off easy if you plead guilty, not "throw the book at you" if you plead not guilty. Sounds like the same thing, but if your penalty for pleading not guilty and being found guilty is the same as if you had plead guilty by mail, there's nothing wrong with that. Does a traffic court judge even have the authority to punish you beyond the "standard" fine?

I think he was offering to let you off easy if you plead not guilty (in person).
 
HardcoreRobot

HardcoreRobot

Lifer
Nov 7, 2000
16,403
3
81
what do you mean by 'median'? was it a suicide lane / dual left turn? if its a valid travel lane and you signaled i dont really see the violation. which makes me think its not a travel lane at all.

there is a busy street by my last house... each side had two lanes of traffic. in the middle there was another lane, which alternated between left turns for each side of the road, and in between was striped to indicate no travel. there was a light there that would back up traffic on one side and people would just blow through the middle to do exactly what you did. cops often sat there too waiting for people to do it. that was actually really poor driving, since if there was a car coming from the opposite direction, in their legal left turn lane wanting to cross the busy side, they would have oncoming traffic hurtling at them trying to pass everyone in the middle lane. sucks for those people... i think they were actually cited for driving on the wrong side of the road (which they were at times there were passing though the opposite sides left turn lanes), and i think that is a reckless charge here in VA, which is no joke. but, i have no sympathy. the lanes are clearly marked where you can enter them. people just in a rush being impatient.

also, who cares what happened four years ago? bring a lawyer if you think the judge is gonna say the same thing again. of course the best advice is get past this asap, even if it means paying, and jsut dont do it again.
 
C

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
76
Originally posted by: mugs
What is the nature of this "median"? A median is usually a strip of grass or concrete between opposing lanes. Are you talking about a center turn lane that facilitates left turns from either direction (with solid yellow lines on the outside on each side and dotted yellow lines on the inside on each side)? I think you can drive in those for a reasonable distance, but I wonder if your 50-100 ft is really a good estimate.

If it's a non-traffic lane median where you're not allowed to drive at all, I don't see how you'll get out of this.

Edit:
Re: the "intimidation" - I think that depends on whether or not you misinterpreted this supposed intimidation. It sounds to me like he was offering to let you off easy if you plead guilty, not "throw the book at you" if you plead not guilty. Sounds like the same thing, but if your penalty for pleading not guilty and being found guilty is the same as if you had plead guilty by mail, there's nothing wrong with that. Does a traffic court judge even have the authority to punish you beyond the "standard" fine?

I think he was offering to let you off easy if you plead not guilty (in person).
Click to expand...

When I say median, I am talking asphalt. It facilitates left turning or pulling out into traffic. As for my estimate, it wasn't much distance but I didn't get out to measure.

My wife was in the car with me and was shocked they gave me a ticket for it. Even more shocked that it was $232. One of my buddies got a ticket the next day for running a red light. I thought for sure he would have a MUCH higher fine. Nope, his was $232.

As for the judge, your idea of getting off easier if you plead guilty isn't correct. The first person that went up plead guilty and was stuck with the same fine and points. The cop whispered to the next person to plead guilty AND ask for leniency from the court.

It is all about interpretation as to whether it is intimidation. This judge also told people that if she heard a cell phone go off, she would look that person up in jail for the night for contempt of court. That honestly didn't bother me because any idiot that leaves their phone on during court deserves to spend a night in jail.
 
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