YATT - Yet, another tipping thread.

[SSSnail]

So, 5 Bay Area restaurants will charge all customers a mandatory 20% tips or service charge. They're saying that this will eliminate tipping, by adding mandatory service charge. 😵

LOL.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/5-Bay-Area-restaurants-taking-tips-off-table-5843781.php

Citing both pragmatic and philosophical reasons, a small collection of Bay Area restaurateurs is eliminating tipping. Instead of expecting diners to leave a tip, the restaurants will automatically add a 20 percent service charge to all bills — and not accept any additional gratuity beyond the service charge.

W
T
F?

I, for one, will not be visiting any of these establishments.

 

[Slew Foot]

Reading the article it seems that a "tip" must go to the waitstaff, but the service charge goes to the house. Seems like a way for the owner to make more $$$$.

 

[Carson Dyle]

It certainly simplifies things. They could add it into the prices and not permit any tipping at all, but then they'd have to charge sales tax on the amount, plus they'd have to pay higher wages to employees.

You have to wonder, though, how attractive it is to tipped employees. I'd be willing to bet that a good bartender or server typically make more than 20% in tips, or does so often enough that working under a policy like this puts a lower ceiling on what they can make. Especially for those who don't pool their tips.

It would also mean that in a busy establishment, everyone has a bigger incentive to turn tables over as fast as possible, so it could be a worse experience for the customer, as well.

 

[SSSnail]

It certainly simplifies things. They could add it into the prices and not permit any tipping at all, but then they'd have to charge sales tax on the amount, plus they'd have to pay higher wages to employees.

You have to wonder, though, how attractive it is to tipped employees. I'd be willing to bet that a good bartender or server typically make more than 20% in tips, or does so often enough that working under a policy like this puts a lower ceiling on what they can make. Especially for those who don't pool their tips.

It would also mean that in a busy establishment, everyone has a bigger incentive to turn tables over as fast as possible, so it could be a worse experience for the customer, as well.

It does, as most if not all Asian countries do have service charge and no tipping. But not at 20% mandatory.

 

[JEDIYoda]

wow you jokers are cheap....

 

[SSSnail]

wow you jokers are cheap....

Of all the ignorant things you posted, this ranks among the top.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Tipping should be left between the customer and the wait staff. The owners are doing this, to force the expense on the customer,.. and not have to pay anything more to the wait staff.

Fuck that.

I am more than happy to tip a waiter/waitress, leave that up to me.

 

[cbrunny]

If they believe it to be an outdated practice (it is not at all), they should get rid of it and replace it with higher wages. Waiters on commission? That's stupid. I know where I'm not going.

 

[Malak]

Tipping is between the customer and the person they are tipping. As a person working for tips I wouldn't even want to work there.

 

[Phoenix86]

Are they updating their model of pay as well? IE, non-tip wage?

If so, I'd consider this, but nowhere near 20%.

I wonder what the take-home of tips is as a % of the bills for the customers they served? I can pretty much guarantee it isn't 20% considering 20% is pretty much the high end of the tip scale, and some people don't tip at all... I'd guess the average is less than 15%.

That means you could make the service charge 15%, pay the servers more than they are getting today with tips AND the business could still come out slightly ahead.

 

[Phoenix86]

If they believe it to be an outdated practice (it is not at all), they should get rid of it and replace it with higher wages. Waiters on commission? That's stupid. I know where I'm not going.

This is a terrible model when you think about it. A low wage worker's pay can vary wildly for a given amount of work and that amount isn't between the employer and employee. Pay for work should be negotiated between these two parties.

 

[Malak]

My average tips are about 20%, including all the jerks that don't tip. And I don't work in some fancy restaurant that would do this, but we do have a flat service charge. I don't get the service charge and make minimum wage.

 

[Dirigible]

I prefer that. Get rid of tips and just raise prices.

Edit: Oh, good. One of the restaurants is Camino, which is a short walk from my house. I'll visit there soon.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Tipping should be left between the customer and the wait staff. The owners are doing this, to force the expense on the customer,.. and not have to pay anything more to the wait staff.

Fuck that.

I am more than happy to tip a waiter/waitress, leave that up to me.

Makes zero difference. Those employees will be paid exactly the same by the employer, whether they leave the tipping amount up to you or they mandate it at some fixed rate. What it does is eliminate the stupid shit that happens. A cook overcooks a steak, so the waitress gets shafted out of a tip. Or Ma & Pa Kettle come to the big city and tip 10%. Or the server at table 10 gets a 15% tip, while the server at table 6 serves some guy who thinks he's a baller and gets a $100 tip on a $30 tab.

 

[Malak]

Makes zero difference. Those employees will be paid exactly the same by the employer, whether they leave the tipping amount up to you or they mandate it at some fixed rate. What it does is eliminate the stupid shit that happens. A cook overcooks a steak, so the waitress gets shafted out of a tip. Or Ma & Pa Kettle come to the big city and tip 10%. Or the server at table 10 gets a 15% tip, while the server at table 6 serves some guy who thinks he's a baller and gets a $100 tip on a $30 tab.

As a service employee I would rather the customer determine that. Nobody bitches when someone gets a fat tip. Everyone gets shafted. And I guarantee you these waiters will make LESS money.

 

[Mai72]

I have a tip.

Get a real job hippy!

 

[Carson Dyle]

As a service employee I would rather the customer determine that. Nobody bitches when someone gets a fat tip. Everyone gets shafted. And I guarantee you these waiters will make LESS money.

I believe it. That's why I asked above how the employees might feel about it, when they have the potential to make much more on any given shift. Seems like it makes it simpler for management and customers (although some customers will resent it), but it puts a very hard limit on how much tipped employees can make.

 

[Phoenix86]

I prefer that. Get rid of tips and just raise prices.

Edit: Oh, good. One of the restaurants is Camino, which is a short walk from my house. I'll visit there soon.

The restaurateurs say the service charge component will be used exclusively for employee wages, benefits and payroll expenses

 

[D1gger]

A restaurant near here tried that and had to change back to allowing tipping.

link

[FONT="]Just three months after a Vancouver Island restaurant made Canadian hospitality history by outlawing the tipping of servers, gratuities are back on the menu at the Smoke ‘n’ Water.[/FONT]

[FONT="]Back in May when he opened his 155-seat eatery in Parksville’s Pacific Shores Resort, owner David Jones said tipping was a “broken business model” and something his customers would never have to worry about.[/FONT]

[FONT="]Apparently the new no-tipping model wasn’t working that well either.[/FONT]

[FONT="]“After three months of pioneering the No Tipping concept in Canada, we have chosen to listen to the majority of our local customers, who have expressed their desire to have a say on the quality of food and service they receive,” the restaurant announced on its website Thursday.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Instead of tips, Jones intended to increase menu prices by 18 per cent in order to pay his staff a living wage — between $20 and $24 an hour for servers and $16 to $18 an hour for cooks.[/FONT]

[FONT="]“When you take away tipping, you find you get more seasoned servers and you’re able to increase the quality of personnel you get in the back of house,”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[smackababy]

Are they updating their model of pay as well? IE, non-tip wage?

If so, I'd consider this, but nowhere near 20%.

I wonder what the take-home of tips is as a % of the bills for the customers they served? I can pretty much guarantee it isn't 20% considering 20% is pretty much the high end of the tip scale, and some people don't tip at all... I'd guess the average is less than 15%.

That means you could make the service charge 15%, pay the servers more than they are getting today with tips AND the business could still come out slightly ahead.

They are already on the model of federal minimum wage. If, after tips, waitstaff does not make that much per hour, the establishment is required by law to compensate them.

Stop pretending like they have to actually live at $3 an hour. It isn't true, and if it is, it is illegal.

If the service charge is dedicated to the server, I don't see any problem.

Actually, I do see a problem: servers who are awful and don't get much in tips will no longer get to bitch about every patron being an asshole who doesn't tip; rather they get to bitch about nobody visiting said establishment.

 

[Smoblikat]

20% mandatory?

If you bring me my food in a timely manner, the food is good, and you are friendly and make sure I am all set, you will get at least a 20% tip. If even one of those areas does not meet my expectations, you will receive less.

 

[rh71]

On a restaurant startup show, aside from startup costs (equipment, monthly rent) they mention check average (how much a check usually comes out to in order to calculate monthly revenue) and margins per food item. Some margins go as high as 70% PROFIT on something as simple as a burger. Of course some of this goes to rent and salaries, but I'd like to see a restaurant's books to show that they really can't "afford" to pay waiters a normal salary. Quite a few small restaurants make hundreds of thousands a year. Other types of businesses have the same expenses and don't make 70% profit on a product... yet they can afford staff.

 

[Phoenix86]

They are already on the model of federal minimum wage. If, after tips, waitstaff does not make that much per hour, the establishment is required by law to compensate them.

Stop pretending like they have to actually live at $3 an hour. It isn't true, and if it is, it is illegal.

If the service charge is dedicated to the server, I don't see any problem.

Actually, I do see a problem: servers who are awful and don't get much in tips will no longer get to bitch about every patron being an asshole who doesn't tip; rather they get to bitch about nobody visiting said establishment.

Calm down there, hoss. I never said they earn $3/hour, or less than min-wage. I said if there's a change in price of goods and services because of the employee pay has changed (hourly+tips vs. straight hourly) I want to make sure that increase in price keeps their pay the same.

I'll pay a very similar total price via a different method, as long as the employee is getting the same pay.

Prior, tips were put into wages. With this change, the money that was going into tips is being split into benefits and payroll expenses as well. That's subsidizing the employer's current costs.

In other words, the employer is getting a cut. It also doesn't justify the total price increase (I tip 15% standard, 20% good), so on average my price would increase. I don't want to pay more just to lower the owners costs when it's sold as a benefit to the employee.

 

[slag]

If they believe it to be an outdated practice (it is not at all), they should get rid of it and replace it with higher wages. Waiters on commission? That's stupid. I know where I'm not going.

Uh, I'm already paying $30.00 at most places for a 6 oz filet (my wife is, I eat the ribeye)

Thats already overpriced and retarded. I'll just stay at home and cook.

6 oz is like 3-4 bites.

 

[slag]

20% mandatory?

If you bring me my food in a timely manner, the food is good, and you are friendly and make sure I am all set, you will get at least a 20% tip. If even one of those areas does not meet my expectations, you will receive less.

15%.. not 20%. Yes, it matters. Stop arbitrarily increasing the percentage. In a few years, it will be 30% with this tip creep.