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YASTT (Yet Another Speeding Ticket Thread): Do they work this way? **UPDATED** Now W/ PICS.

minus1972

Platinum Member
argh...just got my first ticket ever and I'm only slightly pissed off. For the certain thread crappers out there: YES, I was speeding. YES, I will pay the ticket. I don't need to hear you to tell me to do those two things and shutup, so save your time.

I was coming home from a golf course (where I work every morning) this afternoon at about 5. I wasn't paying attention to my speed, but there were no cars around me (I'd been on this road for a while) , so I was just driving comfortably. This road is a two lane, windy road (typical Cape Cod for those who have been here), and I have no trouble driving between 60 and 70 every morning on the way to work at 4:30am when the road is deserted. As I came over a hill, a cop passed me the other way, so there was no way I would see him coming. Sure enough, as he passes me, he hits the brakes, pulls a three point turn (pretty ugly one at that) and speeds up behind me. He tailgates me for a bit (by this point I've slowed to 40, the posted speed limit), and waits a minute before putting on his lights and pulling me over. I pull off the road, stop the car, put it in park, shut off the radio, and put my hands on the window and the wheel. He comes up and asks me if I knew how fast I was going, I said no, he asked if I thought I was speeding, I said I'm not sure, maybe. Asks me if I'm down on vacation, and I tell him I'm here for the summer (why should that matter?). Takes my lisence and registration and walks back to the car. Comes back with a ticket for 60 in a 40, a $175 fine. ($150 + $25 surcharge for the head injury trust fund...at least they're not getting all of it) Here's my only problem, so I'll cliffs note it:

Cliffs notes: Got a ticket for 60 in a 40, the ticket has both 'radar' and 'estimated' boxes checked. Saw the cop as we passed over a hill, did not see him coming. Is it even possible that he clocked me when he only really saw me as he passed?

UPDATE: definately contesting it. read details below.

UPDATE #2 - 06.16.03: Posted the following below:
Quick update today...probably the last before I head to court. First, I sent in the ticket today, so that's all taken care of. Second, I went out this afternoon to take some pics to use with a map b/c the conditions were very similar to the day I was pulled over.

This picture shows what the cop saw before he came over the hill where we passed. All it really shows is that he could not have seen me coming, as the car in view is at the top of the hill, and I was not at that point until after we passed. This is to go along with my point that I did not break the law because I was not speeding for more then a quarter of a mile.

The next picture is the same hill from my angle. The red line is where I estimate we passed/where I was ""clocked"" going 60.

Those are the most interesting ones, others relate to how far away I was when I was finally pulled over. (Haven't measured yet, but I estimate it's about a half mile away)
 
Originally posted by: minus1972
argh...just got my first ticket ever and I'm only slightly pissed off. For the certain thread crappers out there: YES, I was speeding. YES, I will pay the ticket. I don't need to hear you to tell me to do those two things and shutup, so save your time.

I was coming home from a golf course (where I work every morning) this afternoon at about 5. I wasn't paying attention to my speed, but there were no cars around me (I'd been on this road for a while) , so I was just driving comfortably. This road is a two lane, windy road (typical Cape Cod for those who have been here), and I have no trouble driving between 60 and 70 every morning on the way to work at 4:30am when the road is deserted. As I came over a hill, a cop passed me the other way, so there was no way I would see him coming. Sure enough, as he passes me, he hits the brakes, pulls a three point turn (pretty ugly one at that) and speeds up behind me. He tailgates me for a bit (by this point I've slowed to 40, the posted speed limit), and waits a minute before putting on his lights and pulling me over. I pull off the road, stop the car, put it in park, shut off the radio, and put my hands on the window and the wheel. He comes up and asks me if I knew how fast I was going, I said no, he asked if I thought I was speeding, I said I'm not sure, maybe. Asks me if I'm down on vacation, and I tell him I'm here for the summer (why should that matter?). Takes my lisence and registration and walks back to the car. Comes back with a ticket for 60 in a 40, a $175 fine. ($150 + $25 surcharge for the head injury trust fund...at least they're not getting all of it) Here's my only problem, so I'll cliffs note it:

Cliffs notes: Got a ticket for 60 in a 40, the ticket has both 'radar' and 'estimated' boxes checked. Saw the cop as we passed over a hill, did not see him coming. Is it even possible that he clocked me when he only really saw me as he passed?

You were speeding. Pay the ticket. 😉

Seriously, he probably just guessed at your speed and didn't actually "clock it" when he saw you go flying by, but he had the radar to back it up as well, apparently.
 
Originally posted by: Encryptic
Originally posted by: minus1972
argh...just got my first ticket ever and I'm only slightly pissed off. For the certain thread crappers out there: YES, I was speeding. YES, I will pay the ticket. I don't need to hear you to tell me to do those two things and shutup, so save your time.

I was coming home from a golf course (where I work every morning) this afternoon at about 5. I wasn't paying attention to my speed, but there were no cars around me (I'd been on this road for a while) , so I was just driving comfortably. This road is a two lane, windy road (typical Cape Cod for those who have been here), and I have no trouble driving between 60 and 70 every morning on the way to work at 4:30am when the road is deserted. As I came over a hill, a cop passed me the other way, so there was no way I would see him coming. Sure enough, as he passes me, he hits the brakes, pulls a three point turn (pretty ugly one at that) and speeds up behind me. He tailgates me for a bit (by this point I've slowed to 40, the posted speed limit), and waits a minute before putting on his lights and pulling me over. I pull off the road, stop the car, put it in park, shut off the radio, and put my hands on the window and the wheel. He comes up and asks me if I knew how fast I was going, I said no, he asked if I thought I was speeding, I said I'm not sure, maybe. Asks me if I'm down on vacation, and I tell him I'm here for the summer (why should that matter?). Takes my lisence and registration and walks back to the car. Comes back with a ticket for 60 in a 40, a $175 fine. ($150 + $25 surcharge for the head injury trust fund...at least they're not getting all of it) Here's my only problem, so I'll cliffs note it:

Cliffs notes: Got a ticket for 60 in a 40, the ticket has both 'radar' and 'estimated' boxes checked. Saw the cop as we passed over a hill, did not see him coming. Is it even possible that he clocked me when he only really saw me as he passed?

You were speeding. Pay the ticket. 😉

Seriously, he probably just guessed at your speed and didn't actually "clock it" when he saw you go flying by, but he had the radar to back it up as well, apparently.

 
If I had to guess I would say that he probably wasn't out cruising on an empty road with his radar on. Since you popped over a hill my best guess is that he couldn't react in time, and therefore didn't clock you.

However that doesn't matter since there is no way you are going to get out of the ticket 😛
 
Originally posted by: Kyteland
If I had to guess I would say that he probably wasn't out cruising on an empty road with his radar on. Since you popped over a hill my best guess is that he couldn't react in time, and therefore didn't clock you.

However that doesn't matter since there is no way you are going to get out of the ticket 😛

I'm not expecting to get out of it...I just don't want points...where can I find out how many this will be?
 
Originally posted by: minus1972
Originally posted by: Kyteland
If I had to guess I would say that he probably wasn't out cruising on an empty road with his radar on. Since you popped over a hill my best guess is that he couldn't react in time, and therefore didn't clock you.

However that doesn't matter since there is no way you are going to get out of the ticket 😛

I'm not expecting to get out of it...I just don't want points...where can I find out how many this will be?

Where you at? Massachusetts? Try Googling for your state's vehicle code, maybe?
 
it doesnt always transfer if u are from out of state (points wise)

my only ticket came in Montana, it was a BS ticket, well not totally- i was speeding, but not as fast as the guy said i was and he made up the speed limit to be 65 even though the sign in front of us said 75...and he made me pay him on the spot...

i was driving cross country with a NY license in a car with british columbia plates...he knew i wasnt about to challenge it
 
I'm getting more pissed at myself for getting caught by the moment. Yes, I'm in MA, but I live here, so the out of state thing won't work. Any more advice?

First thing I'm doing tomorrow is asking around at work to see if anyone knows anybody that can take care of my ticket for me. I work for the town that I got pulled over in, but neglected to mention that to the cop.....argh. If nothing comes up, then the next thing I'll do is send in the ticket to contest it.
 
I would say contest it regardless. You end up w/ a smaller fine or EVEN BETTER a right to go to traffic school to just get rid of it.
 
Did you slow down when you passed him? Perhaps he checked "estimated" because he saw that you were speeding, but didn't have time to "lock" your speed in.
 
Radars don't work well on windy roads and require line of sight. If the Judge you went in front of behaved as mine did last week, then you could present a decent case and have the points dropped and fine reduced. Odds are the cop will lie in court and make it as difficult as possible for you to establish a case.

Also, check if your state has traffic school or other clauses that allow you to drop the points from your first ticket.
 
yeah...I looked at it today when I went to work, and there's no way he could have gunned me when we passed. We both saw each other as we passed on the top of the hill, and I slowed down (but didn't slam on the brakes) after he passed. I've also heard about filing for discovery at the courthouse after sending in the ticket to contend the charges. A friend at work today told me that I could request a ton of forms that the PD might not have like the certificate for the last time the radar gun was calibrated and the paperwork showing when the officer was trained on the gun. Still looking for info on that in Mass though.
 
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Thank you for not being a whiny little bitch and saying "wah wah wah I don't want to pay the ticket". :beer:

That is all.

- M4H

You're welcome.

Alright...here's another update. I found out that I can write the officer to request the following:

Copies of the officers log book for the hour of the ticket
Copies of both sides of the officer's part of your ticket
A description of the device used to measure your speed, its repair history and maintenance.
The officers training record on that device.

I can then use these in court if I have to. This is from this site. Unfortunately, it also states that Massachusetts law does not allow for probation or traffic class OR plea bargains. So it looks like I'll have to prepare myself to fight it. There's a lot of good info there so I'll have to keep working on it. Thanks for all the productive advice so far...
 
Quick addition...I was looking at the ticket today and noticed that the officer only signed it, not filling in his name or my signature (which he did not request), is this important enough to mention or not?

EDIT: Thinking about following this line. This guy basically got off because the officer did not ask him to sign the ticket.
 
You know you were speeding... how close is his 'estimate' to what you were actually doing? If there is a big difference, make a big deal of it.
 
Some cops are pretty fast with those guns. Others drive with them on. So he could have had the gun on in which case he could have gotten an actual speed reading. Cops drive with them on all of the time. I have a radar detector and at least once during a trip to or from school (school in MD and home in NJ) There will be a cop driving around with it on. Good luck.
-doug
 
Originally posted by: minus1972
yeah...I looked at it today when I went to work, and there's no way he could have gunned me when we passed. We both saw each other as we passed on the top of the hill, and I slowed down (but didn't slam on the brakes) after he passed. I've also heard about filing for discovery at the courthouse after sending in the ticket to contend the charges. A friend at work today told me that I could request a ton of forms that the PD might not have like the certificate for the last time the radar gun was calibrated and the paperwork showing when the officer was trained on the gun. Still looking for info on that in Mass though.

If you are going to fight it, don't count on anything easy. You are not the first speeder to want to contest the charges. You are not the first speeder to see whatever web page you saw. Work under the assumptions that they will have every paper in order, the cop is a perfect expert in the radar usage and visual speed observation, and that he will show up in court fully prepared. Given these conditions, do you think you have a valid case? Are you willing to risk a judge that will throw the book at you and give you the maximum penalty for the chance of getting a reduced penalty, reduced points, or the ticket dropped all together? Think those things over. If you have a lawyer friend or judge friend, take them out to dinner and talk it over with them since any insight they have will likely be much better than someone who doesn't know the system could give. Also, their help would be invaluable in preparing your defense and cross-examination questions.
 
Originally posted by: ReelC00L
Originally posted by: minus1972
yeah...I looked at it today when I went to work, and there's no way he could have gunned me when we passed. We both saw each other as we passed on the top of the hill, and I slowed down (but didn't slam on the brakes) after he passed. I've also heard about filing for discovery at the courthouse after sending in the ticket to contend the charges. A friend at work today told me that I could request a ton of forms that the PD might not have like the certificate for the last time the radar gun was calibrated and the paperwork showing when the officer was trained on the gun. Still looking for info on that in Mass though.

If you are going to fight it, don't count on anything easy. You are not the first speeder to want to contest the charges. You are not the first speeder to see whatever web page you saw. Work under the assumptions that they will have every paper in order, the cop is a perfect expert in the radar usage and visual speed observation, and that he will show up in court fully prepared. Given these conditions, do you think you have a valid case? Are you willing to risk a judge that will throw the book at you and give you the maximum penalty for the chance of getting a reduced penalty, reduced points, or the ticket dropped all together? Think those things over. If you have a lawyer friend or judge friend, take them out to dinner and talk it over with them since any insight they have will likely be much better than someone who doesn't know the system could give. Also, their help would be invaluable in preparing your defense and cross-examination questions.


Here's the main things I'm looking at right now. A) The ticket is incomplete because he never asked me to sign it, which is required by Massachusetts state law (The violator shall be requested to sign the citation in order to acknowledge that it has been received. [LINK] and B) Massachusetts state law also states that to be breaking the law in an area where the speed is 40mph, you must be speeding for a quarter or a mile (No person operating a motor vehicle on any way shall run it at a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper, having regard to traffic and the use of the way and the safety of the public. Unless a way is otherwise posted in accordance with the provisions of section eighteen, it shall be prima facie evidence of a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper as aforesaid...(2) on any other way outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding forty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile) [LINK2]. There is no way he saw me speeding for a quarter of a mile. We passed and I slowed down...he could not have seen me speeding for a quarter of a mile. I will of course have pictures and maps to back this up. I have several other points to make in court, including the fact that I would have been tagged while the officer was moving, the ticket does not specify which crossroad I was tagged on (the road is a horseshoe, so it crosses the road I was on twice a small distance apart (both above and below the hill where we passed). So I'm sending in the ticket today as well as a public information request if I have the time. Thanks, I'll keep this updated for those interested.
 
You have be be speeding for 1/4 mile to get ticketed? First time I've heard of that, but that's pretty interesting..too bad FL isn't like that 😛
 
never mind. I was just going to suggest paying the ticket if the officer's estimation or reading of your speed was accurate. Suggestion to everyone... DONT hit the brakes when passing a cop... once they see the brake lights, it's a sign that says "ooops, I better slow down." Take your foot off the gas (and/or downshift without braking). Then, don't stick to exactly the speed limit. Go the usual 7 or 8 over that is usually allowed. (except for in those towns that use ticket revenues as a sole source of income).
 
Originally posted by: MrDingleDangle
it doesnt always transfer if u are from out of state (points wise)

my only ticket came in Montana, it was a BS ticket, well not totally- i was speeding, but not as fast as the guy said i was and he made up the speed limit to be 65 even though the sign in front of us said 75...and he made me pay him on the spot...

i was driving cross country with a NY license in a car with british columbia plates...he knew i wasnt about to challenge it

i thought there was no speed limit in montana...??


and for the 1/4 mi thing... that's supposedly how long they need to follow you to "gauge" your speed... if you're going 40 for a 1/4 mile, they shouldn't have anything to ticket you.... and i didn't know they could radar while driving....??? wtf!? b/c the way the radar works, if he's moviing, the waves will be received by the radar late, if they even have the right trajectory to get to the radar... i would go contest, saying that you weren't speeding (regardless of whether you were or not) and explain what happened (minus the you were going 60mph part...) and say you don't know why the cop gave you a ticket...

be careful tho, sometimes (not always) cops make up stories to win cases... i've seen it happen... my friend got a ticket on the freeway for going 85 (he was on the onramp for christ's sake... in a 4cyl solara) and the cop says in court that he saw my friend weaving in and out of traffic.... wtf!? he had just gotten onto the freeway!!
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
never mind. I was just going to suggest paying the ticket if the officer's estimation or reading of your speed was accurate. Suggestion to everyone... DONT hit the brakes when passing a cop... once they see the brake lights, it's a sign that says "ooops, I better slow down." Take your foot off the gas (and/or downshift without braking). Then, don't stick to exactly the speed limit. Go the usual 7 or 8 over that is usually allowed. (except for in those towns that use ticket revenues as a sole source of income).

Yeah only car on the road and having your brake lights light up doesn't help.... I sometimes use the emergency brake to slow me down some if i see a cop coming since it doesn't light up the brake lights.

 
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