YASECT: body camera on cop records deadly confrontation

[dabuddha]

Per SOP, sure, the cop did the right thing. He did was he was trained to do... Which is unload his magazine the moment he sees anything which he perceives to threaten his live. Knife, garden hose sprayer, anything which causes him to fear = kill the person. I get that.

The issue here is that this situation should not have to end in the perp getting shot. I know, SOP is that he enters the home and kills anyone with a weapon (even though he was called out there to handle a guy threatening to kill himself with a knife...)

Just because that's SOP doesn't mean it makes sense. In this case, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Considering the first bolded text, you didn't watch the video. The officer repeatedly kept asking the guy to put the knife which the guy ignored. He had to have told him at least 4-5 times and the guy kept advancing on him with a deadly weapon.

Considering the second bolded section, you really use the word "know" loosely since you're completely and utterly wrong.

 

[MrDudeMan]

When do cops get blamed under that sort of situation? I keep very close track of these bizarro cop situations and there are very few where any blame is pointed towards the officer if someone kills themselves.


And really, the concern is that if the cop stays outside the guy will knife himself, and you don't want cops blamed for that, so the solution is to enter home and shoot the guy? That's quite a leap.


There are plenty of good cops. The problem isn't the cops, it's the overall culture of always sticking by SOP because we can't afford to lose in court.

I now understand why people don't continue to argue with you. Your leaps of logic are nothing short of absurd. The cop clearly didn't enter the home intent on killing the guy. He had his gun out for his protection, but he asked many times for the guy to put the knife down and to come talk to him. Your inference that he already decided on a particular 'solution' is idiotic at best.

 

[dabuddha]

When do cops get blamed under that sort of situation? I keep very close track of these bizarro cop situations and there are very few where any blame is pointed towards the officer if someone kills themselves.


And really, the concern is that if the cop stays outside the guy will knife himself, and you don't want cops blamed for that, so the solution is to enter home and shoot the guy? That's quite a leap.


There are plenty of good cops. The problem isn't the cops, it's the overall culture of always sticking by SOP because we can't afford to lose in court.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/11/18/62962.htm

 

[Scarpozzi]

I don't disagree that the guy was in the wrong and the cop had the right....but that doesn't mean the cop should sleep good at night over this. He could have handled the situation differently from the start without yelling and threatening the guy's state of mind.

Diffusing a situation like that isn't easy, but a taser or stun gun would have disarmed the guy without killing him.

 

[MrDudeMan]

I don't disagree that the guy was in the wrong and the cop had the right....but that doesn't mean the cop should sleep good at night over this. He could have handled the situation differently from the start without yelling and threatening the guy's state of mind.

Diffusing a situation like that isn't easy, but a taser or stun gun would have disarmed the guy without killing him.

I don't think anyone has made the comment that the cop should feel warm and fuzzy about killing someone. I'm guessing he doesn't.

Also, wtf? Did we watch the same video? He didn't yell at him or threaten him in any way until the guy started walking directly at him. He said the situation isn't worth it and he asked multiple times in a calm voice to put the knives down and come out. What the fuck do you expect him to do other than those two things?

 

[exdeath]

Warning shot implies there wasn't an imminent threat to life or limb. By the time you pull a gun out it should be to stop someone when all else has failed.

 

[purbeast0]

you wanna know how to avoid getting shot by a police officer? don't go at him with a knife. it's worked wonders for me and everyone i know for decades.

(haven't watched the video, just commenting based off of the comments in here)

 

[dr150]

seems like a good time to use a taser

Exactly.

I know that the cop may be in his right to shoot, but instead of putting 4 bullets into his chest at such close range, he could, as a 2nd option to tazing in the heat of the moment, hit his shoulder and leg to incapacitate.

It may not be police protocol to not shoot to chest when firing, but now, the guy's dead and the cop will have to live with 2nd guessing the situation for the rest of his life.

 

[rudeguy]

Exactly.

I know that the cop may be in his right to shoot, but instead of putting 4 bullets into his chest at such close range, he could, as a 2nd option to tazing in the heat of the moment, hit his shoulder and leg to incapacitate.

It may not be police protocol to not shoot to chest when firing, but now, the guy's dead and the cop will have to live with 2nd guessing the situation for the rest of his life.

How exactly are you qualified to recommend this?

Aiming at a leg has a greater chance of a miss, allowing a bullet to hit whatever it wants to. If you shoot, you shoot to stop the threat. You do not try fancy shots.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I don't think anyone has made the comment that the cop should feel warm and fuzzy about killing someone. I'm guessing he doesn't.

Also, wtf? Did we watch the same video? He didn't yell at him or threaten him in any way until the guy started walking directly at him. He said the situation isn't worth it and he asked multiple times in a calm voice to put the knives down and come out. What the fuck do you expect him to do other than those two things?

We did....I'm just referring to the way he entered the residence and shouted for the guy to come out. He wasn't sure where the guy was, I know, but he should have taken the Andy Griffith approach and been less aggressive.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

We did....I'm just referring to the way he entered the residence and shouted for the guy to come out. He wasn't sure where the guy was, I know, but he should have taken the Andy Griffith approach and been less aggressive.

Exactly.

Crazy suicidal guy with a knife.... you know there is no back door, no windows to use as an exit..... Let's not wait for backup, instead go inside and search the house.

I mean WTF did he expect? The suicidal crazy guy to just decide to put the knife down?


He wanted to be a hero... And this is what happened.

 

[dabuddha]

Exactly.

Crazy suicidal guy with a knife.... you know there is no back door, no windows to use as an exit..... Let's not wait for backup, instead go inside and search the house.

I mean WTF did he expect? The suicidal crazy guy to just decide to put the knife down?


He wanted to be a hero... And this is what happened.

How does he know that there is no back door? Cause some distraught person told him? Didn't realize you were as naive as you are clueless. What would having backup have done? The guy could have killed himself in the meanwhile and then the cop would be sued over it. What if there was a child in the house with the crazed guy with a knife? I can go on and on but you're obviously either being obtuse on purpose or just plain clueless. I'll let you decide

 

[MrPickins]

Just STFU already. Its beyond ignorant. Its almost to the point of some kind of mental defect. Just because you play COD and watch COPS doesn't mean you know how to handle things better than a trained person does.

So we're not allowed to discuss/second guess the actions of our public servants?

I didn't say he was in the wrong and should be disciplined, I just wonder if the situation could have been handled better is all.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

How does he know that there is no back door? Cause some distraught person told him? Didn't realize you were as naive as you are clueless. What would having backup have done? The guy could have killed himself in the meanwhile and then the cop would be sued over it. What if there was a child in the house with the crazed guy with a knife? I can go on and on but you're obviously either being obtuse on purpose or just plain clueless. I'll let you decide

He does know that the guy has not hurt anyone else yet.


So, what's worst case? The guy jumps through a window so he can't get his insurance info for the accident?

It just seems like killing the guy should be a last resort, and every decision the LEO made (even if policy) directed the end result of the mentally ill guy getting killed.

 

[rudeguy]

So we're not allowed to discuss/second guess the actions of our public servants?

I didn't say he was in the wrong and should be disciplined, I just wonder if the situation could have been handled better is all.

If you honestly care, show up at your next city hall meeting and recommend some changes

 

[JM Aggie08]

Exactly.

I know that the cop may be in his right to shoot, but instead of putting 4 bullets into his chest at such close range, he could, as a 2nd option to tazing in the heat of the moment, hit his shoulder and leg to incapacitate.

It may not be police protocol to not shoot to chest when firing, but now, the guy's dead and the cop will have to live with 2nd guessing the situation for the rest of his life.

You shoot to kill, always.

 

[rudeguy]

You shoot to kill, always.

NO!

I saw it on TV once where a cop shot the gun out of a guy's hand. That's what they should always do!!!

 

[Phoenix86]

I think considering this situation as an attorney is a useful framework for analyzing it. As it happens I have handled numerous police use-of-force cases on both the plaintiff's and defendant's side, and am very familiar with the concepts in play.

For your part, you have repeatedly referred to police as "gang members," and I'd suggest that your own bias is greatly informing your view of this incident.

Yeah, how dare you allow your professional and directly related (expert?) experience tint your view of this.

I'm 100% ok with the video so far but I didn't have my volume up too much (at work) so I might have missed a key detail.

 

[dabuddha]

He does know that the guy has not hurt anyone else yet.


So, what's worst case? The guy jumps through a window so he can't get his insurance info for the accident?

It just seems like killing the guy should be a last resort, and every decision the LEO made (even if policy) directed the end result of the mentally ill guy getting killed.

How? Cause some distraught person told him so? The officer is entering a situation which is volatile and he doesn't know what to expect.

Let's take your reasoning a bit further. He jumps out a window. According to you, you already know he's got a knife and he's suicidal. Now he's roaming free in the public and he's armed and irrational.

As it's been stated before, theres no proof or evidence that the man was mentally ill. I do find it amusing how ignore logic and facts so you can keep spouting your nonsense

 

[rudeguy]

Yeah, how dare you allow your professional, directly related experience tint your view of this.

I'm 100% ok with the video so far but I didn't have my volume up too much (at work) so I might have missed a key detail.

when the cop literally begged the guy to not make him shoot him?

 

[MartyMcFly3]

You shoot to kill, always.

You shoot to stop the threat, not kill. The easiest way to stop the threat is to shoot at center mass, which officers train for. However this area also can cause the person to die as most major organs are there. It's not the intent of the officer to kill the offender.

Warning shots are strictly prohibited within a large number of departments, mine included. Just as we don't shoot the wheels of vehicles we are pursuing.

But again this is a SE thread so I shouldn't get too worked up about it

 

[rudeguy]

You shoot to stop the threat, not kill. The easiest way to stop the threat is to shoot at center mass, which officers train for. However this area also can cause the person to die as most major organs are there. It's not the intent of the officer to kill the offender.

Warning shots are strictly prohibited within a large number of departments, mine included. Just as we don't shoot the wheels of vehicles we are pursuing.

But again this is a SE thread so I shouldn't get too worked up about it

I value your opinion on this. I really wish Jlee would pop his head in as well.

How do these threads make you feel? When people are armchair quarterbacking every move made by some cop just trying to do his job. Do they bother you or do I get worked up enough in your stead?

 

[Phoenix86]

NO!

I saw it on TV once where a cop shot the gun out of a guy's hand. That's what they should always do!!!

He had two knifes, therefor the cop would need two guns, and probably be drunk.

 

[FallenHero]

I value your opinion on this. I really wish Jlee would pop his head in as well.

How do these threads make you feel? When people are armchair quarterbacking every move made by some cop just trying to do his job. Do they bother you or do I get worked up enough in your stead?

They only bother me to the extent that even if I was able to respond to each thread in detail it would not change people's opinion. People are going to hate the police and will never ever see it from our perspective because they choose not to. Arguing with the vast majority of cop haters on here is akin to talking to a wall. When a cop does something wrong, by all means hate on that specific officer and legally go after him. No problem. When a cop is doing their job legally and how they are trained and people still rage despite being told exactly how and why the officer did what he/she did, that's just deliberate ignorance.

 

[Phoenix86]

when the cop literally begged the guy to not make him shoot him?

Did you miss the <sarcasm></sarcasm>? I was agreeing with Don Vito.