YART - Whats the point?

[Pray To Jesus]

You can't destroy *and* surrender something. The idea is that if either is true, then it meets the definition of a sacrifice, thus implying that said loss is permanent.

Sigh. It implies no such thing. Destroy or surrender. So two scenario can exist in order for the definition of sacrifice to be fulfilled:

#1: Object is destroyed. Permanent.

#2: Object is surrendered. Not permanent.

If I say, "It's going to rain or it's not going to rain."

Do you see how the two is two separate scenario?

And you're conveniently forgetting the other definitions that I bolded.

I'm done with you.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

That is definitely not the case, I never wanted to believe in anything, until those things were proven to me. If someone proves a maths proof to you, you don't have to want to believe in it in order for it to be proven to you.

Think of it this way:

You can show me all the proofs you have of an idea but if I don't want to believe in that idea, I will not believe in it. Those proofs will hopefully make me want more to believe in the idea, but I can still choose not to believe in the idea if I don't want to.

To make it more clear, consider this:

No one can force you to do anything you don't want to do.

What people can do is make you want to do something by various means, but ultimately it's still up to you to do it or not.

 

[HAL9000]

Think of it this way:

You can show me all the proofs you have of an idea but if I don't want to believe in that idea, I will not believe in it. Those proofs will hopefully make me want more to believe in the idea, but I can still choose not to believe in the idea if I don't want to.

To make it more clear, consider this:

No one can force you to do anything you don't want to do.

What people can do is make you want to do something by various means, but ultimately it's still up to you to do it or not.

Yes some people are stubborn enough not to believe that two plus two equals four, but most people when shown that it does will believe it. Reasonable people can be proved something that they will then believe. Whether they wanted to or not.

 

[Patterner]

Sigh. It implies no such thing. Destroy or surrender. So two scenario can exist:

#1: Object is destroyed. Permanent.

#2: Object is surrendered. Not permanent.

And you're conveniently forgetting the other definitions that I bolded.

I'm done with you.

Please, do be done with me. But I don't understand, don't you want to sacrifice your time to convert the heathen? Since you're surrendering it, that means you can get it back so it's a win win!

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Yes some people are stubborn enough not to believe that two plus two equals four, but most people when shown that it does will believe it. Reasonable people can be proved something that they will then believe. Whether they wanted to or not.

Reasonable is very vague and subjective. I see how you have to bring up reasonable to try and salvage your point.

My argument is that if someone really and truly doesn't want to believe in something, you can't make them believe it no matter what.

Likewise, if someone really and truly want to believe in something, there's absolutely no way you're going to make them disbelieve in it.

Yes, some people will believe that 2+2=3 no matter what you tell them. Just go to P&N and see for yourself.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Please, do be done with me. But I don't understand, don't you want to sacrifice your time to convert the heathen? Since you're surrendering it, that means you can get it back so it's a win win!

I'm smart enough to know not to argue with stupid people for too long.

 

[HAL9000]

Reasonable is very vague and subjective. I see how you have to bring up reasonable to try and salvage your point.

My argument is that if someone really and truly doesn't want to believe in something, you can't make them believe it no matter what.

Likewise, if someone really and truly want to believe in something, there's absolutely no way you're going to make them disbelieve in it.

Yes, some people will believe that 2+2=3 no matter what you tell them. Just go to P&N and see for yourself.

OK, but let's assume that there are what I would call reasonable people out there, prepared to listen to reason and accept proofs on either side of the debate. My argument is that these people cannot believe in god, because they don't actively want to, similarly they don't actively not want to.

Which was my original point, you have to actively want to believe in god in order to.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

That is definitely not the case, I never wanted to believe in anything, until those things were proven to me. If someone proves a maths proof to you, you don't have to want to believe in it in order for it to be proven to you.

I'm glad that you have a logical mind which will only accepts things that are proven to you.

You should think about what things you accept on authority. I'm certain that a lot of things you think are proven to you, you are accepting on authority without having seen the proofs.

For instance, you most definitely are accepting on authority that Japan got hit by an earthquake recently.

 

[HAL9000]

I'm glad that you have a logical mind which will only accepts things that are proven to you.

You should think about what things you accept on authority. I'm certain that a lot of things you think are proven to you, you are accepting on authority without having seen the proofs.

For instance, you most definitely are accepting on authority that Japan got hit by an earthquake recently.

Yes, because I have seen the photos and videos and online response. I have seen the direct effects. If I had seen none I would be suspicious, If I had seen videos of something that could have been explained more simply another way then I would not believe them.

I'm not looking for conclusive proof, just a reasonable argument that makes god a more reasonable option

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Yes, because I have seen the photos and videos and online response. I have seen the direct effects. If I had seen none I would be suspicious, If I had seen videos of something that could have been explained more simply another way then I would not believe them.

I'm not looking for conclusive proof, just a reasonable argument that makes god a more reasonable option

You seem reasonable so try this experiment.

God will definitely show you proof if you earnestly ask Him to.

So I want you to pray to God, in Jesus' name, every day for a month for Him to show you proof that He exists.

For this experiment to work you should keep an open mind and spirit to things happening in your life. All you have to do is be humble and honest with God.

Just pray to God with all your heart and honesty, something like this, "God, people are telling me that you exists but it's very hard for me to believe in something without proof. I honestly cannot believe in you unless you show me some proof of your existence. It is my nature not to believe in something unless shown proof, so I'm asking you in Jesus' name to give me some proof of your existence. I will keep an open mind so please God give me some reason so that I personally can believe in you."

You should keep in mind that the proof will come with something personal or spiritual. Don't discount the proof just because there's nothing physical.

Seriously try it.

 

[HAL9000]

You seem reasonable so try this experiment.

God will definitely show you proof if you earnestly ask Him to.

So I want you to pray to God, in Jesus' name, every day for a month for Him to show you proof that He exists.

For this experiment to work you should keep an open mind and spirit to things happening in your life. All you have to do is be humble and honest with God.

Just pray to God with all your heart and honesty, something like this, "God, people are telling me that you exists but it's very hard for me to believe in something without proof. I honestly cannot believe in you unless you show me some proof of your existence. It is my nature not to believe in something unless shown proof, so I'm asking you in Jesus' name to give me some proof of your existence. I will keep an open mind so please God give me some reason so that I personally can believe in you."

OK I'll get back to you in a month.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

OK I'll get back to you in a month.

Just be honest and humble to God and keep an open mind. I'll pray for you also.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

The Holy Spirit tells me that I should apologize to Patterner and other people whom I called stupid or otherwise insulted.

I'm sorry for insulting you and making you feel bad. Please forgive me for being prideful, arrogant, and angry in my thoughts and actions.

 

[Malak]

This thread is lacking the Jesus facepalm. Come someone please oblige?