YART - Whats the point?

[busydude]

...It's also possible that God was the first troll.

People who created god were the first troll's.

 

[HAL9000]

People who created god were the first troll's.

This.

 

[Malak]

There are a lot more than 3 divisions of the church.

 

[Macamus Prime]

We were created with limitations in durability and duration.

We don't have to worry about many things though; like breathing, growing, seeing etc. Our design is "perfect" to some degree. Yes, there are some who are born with defects and sickness. But, for the most part, our bodies operate with very little thought or effort from us.

Plus, we choose who we are. You aren't a lion, who lives on instinct and driven by urges. You choose to think and act on your own (for the most part).

So, with this "limited-ness", we looked to our natural urges to live and act. We see these acts as 'sins' and punish ourselves (or in some cases God punished us). God sees this and decides there is a need to show us how to live with love, for ourselves, others and God.

And, that's when and why Jesus comes in.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

There are a lot more than 3 divisions of the church.

Pretty sure I said...

...THREE major divisions of Christianity.

Oh yeah, I did.

You're going to erroneously nitpick me over the division of Christianity, but I bet you couldn't even name them.

 

[nanette1985]

As the saying goes (in english) god the father, god the son, god the holy spirit (holy ghost). These are all three the same thing, the same entity. And there is no actual "father" dude somewhere, no actual "son", no ghost - they are all energy, and they sometimes manifest themselves in ways that humans can understand (also in ways that other forms can understand, but that doesn't concern us because we're humans )

Jesus was a manifestation of divine energy that can be interpreted in many ways. If looked at a certain way, death isn't death, life isn't life, there is only eternal energy.

Lessons come from everywhere. If it floats your boat to learn from the religious masters, go for it. All is love.

/did a lot of peyote back in the day

 

[Juddog]

As the saying goes (in english) god the father, god the son, god the holy spirit (holy ghost). These are all three the same thing, the same entity. And there is no actual "father" dude somewhere, no actual "son", no ghost - they are all energy, and they sometimes manifest themselves in ways that humans can understand (also in ways that other forms can understand, but that doesn't concern us because we're humans )

Jesus was a manifestation of divine energy that can be interpreted in many ways. If looked at a certain way, death isn't death, life isn't life, there is only eternal energy.

Lessons come from everywhere. If it floats your boat to learn from the religious masters, go for it. All is love.

/did a lot of peyote back in the day

You left out God's wife.

 

[Malak]

Pretty sure I said...



Oh yeah, I did.

You're going to erroneously nitpick me over the division of Christianity, but I bet you couldn't even name them.

Even Tolstoy regularly referenced more than 3 and that was a hundred years ago. I don't think your are going to get an agreement on 3 major divisions.

 

[El Guaraguao]

We are down now to the (lol) crux, of Christianity, that Jesus suffered and died for us!

This is why people devote their lives to him. It's a powerful idea. You are sinner. You are born a sinner. There is no way for you to cleanse yourself of sin (oops, in Catholicism, there is), and you can't live in heaven as a sinner, but you have a friend on your side, someone who will, take the punishment of god on himself, for your sins, so you may live eternally in heaven with god. Most Christians believe that Jesus is an eternal martyr; that he didn't just die that once on the cross, but dies for each and every one of us (who believes the correct things), when it is our time of need.

People devote their lives to Jesus because they think he is literally their savior. The rest of the stuff you have about the nature of Jesus and God is extraneous to the question.

"suffered and died for us"

My question still stands (Which is aimed at the Christianity). If God knew what was going to happen after he sent his son to live and teach man, He surely knew that he was going to suffer and die for us. Which up until at this point, if Jesus had NOT resurrected, I wouldn't be asking this question; Why do people devote their lives to Jesus, when it was in Gods plan to resurrect his son all this time?

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Even Tolstoy regularly referenced more than 3 and that was a hundred years ago. I don't think your are going to get an agreement on 3 major divisions.

There are three and all others are branches of those. You understand what a tree looks like do you not!?!?!

1. Catholicism
2. Reformed Christianity (Lutherans, Baptists, Protestants, 7th Day Adventists, Mormons, etc. ad nauseum)
3. Eastern Orthodox Christianity

If you were charting this like a family tree you could put Judaism on the top row. On the second row you can put a bunch of little religions you have never heard on, including one called Gnosticism, on the third row under Gnosticism, you put those three branches of Christianity above. One the fourth row you can put a few things under Catholicism, a few things under Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and a whole slew of things under Reformed Christianity, and you can keep branching.

Aside from being completely wrong, your point is troll fail extraneous to this entire argument, and I am sad you even brought it up.

 

[palswim]

The point is that humans deserve that death, while Jesus lived perfectly (thus did not deserve that death). The whole Old Testament system of sacrifice existed because human sin merited death, but God allowed people to substitute an animal as an act of grace (note the many times in the Old Testament where God commanded the animal to be pure, spotless, etc.). But even with this, the people had to keep sacrificing because that animal only covered for the immediate merit of the sin. So, Jesus came as the sacrifice to end all sacrifices, since he was God. (I think 2 Cor. 5:21 summarizes it succinctly.)

But, this death wasn't easy and painless for Jesus. Prior to his arrest, he prayed for any other possibility (Mark 14:34-36, Matt. 26:38-39), and cried out on the cross in anguish (Mark 15:34, 37). But since God had planned this all along (Isaiah 53, Psalm 22), Jesus went through with it.

To address some other things:

• Did Jesus disable God Mode? No, he knew what was coming. (Mark 8:31-32, John 2:18-21, John 13:36, Mark 9:30-32, Matt. 20:17-19) He willfully put aside his power/authority. (Matt. 26:52-54, Phili. 2:6-11)
• Jesus's death and resurrection is a central/pivotal aspect of Christianity. See 2 Cor. 5:21, 1 Cor. 15:12-19. Especially from 1 Cor. 15, if you don't believe in Jesus's resurrection, then there is no point in hoping in any other part of Christianity.

I've occasionally posted responses like this and got "whatever"-type responses, but if you're asking about a Christian perspective on anything, then you have to ultimately refer back to what the Bible says about it.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

"suffered and died for us"

My question still stands (Which is aimed at the Christianity). If God knew what was going to happen after he sent his son to live and teach man, He surely knew that he was going to suffer and die for us. Which up until at this point, if Jesus had NOT resurrected, I wouldn't be asking this question; Why do people devote their lives to Jesus, when it was in Gods plan to resurrect his son all this time?

STOP BEING SO FAIL!

We have already established that just because YOU THINK god is omniscient, does not make it so. That idea does not come from the Bible, but from a bunch of people sitting around long after the time of Jesus, thinking out loud, "Hey, what do you think God's powers are?".

Your question has been answered. Jesus death is irrelevant; it is not why people care.

 

[Malak]

Aside from being completely wrong, your point is troll fail extraneous to this entire argument, and I am sad you even brought it up.

Since your ignorance and attitude are clear, I think you should go make a church about it. Or preach on tv. Or stand on a soapbox on the street. I guess it depends on which of the 7 major divisions you decide to be a part of.

 

[Blackjack200]

The whole Old Testament system of sacrifice existed because human sin merited death, but God allowed people to substitute an animal as an act of grace (note the many times in the Old Testament where God commanded the animal to be pure, spotless, etc.). But even with this, the people had to keep sacrificing because that animal only covered for the immediate merit of the sin.

You don't see any problem with this?

 

[Malak]

"suffered and died for us"

My question still stands (Which is aimed at the Christianity). If God knew what was going to happen after he sent his son to live and teach man, He surely knew that he was going to suffer and die for us. Which up until at this point, if Jesus had NOT resurrected, I wouldn't be asking this question; Why do people devote their lives to Jesus, when it was in Gods plan to resurrect his son all this time?

I am confused by your confusion. Again, my devotion isn't to due with his death. It is like asking why devote to Jesus if God knew he would be named Joshua(his real name) but everyone would call him Jesus in the future. It really isn't relevant.

 

[Patterner]

The suffering servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel.

Which did he say? My God, My God, why have you forsaken me(Mark)? or Father into your hands I commit my spirit(Luke)? It is finished(John)?

Did he carry the cross the whole way? Yes(John)? No, he was helped(Matthew, Mark, Luke)

What did the sign on the cross say? Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews(John)? This is Jesus, King of the Jews(Matthew)? The King of the Jews(Mark)? This is the King of the Jews(Luke)?

Who discovered the empty tomb? Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James and some other peeps found two dudes there that told them he was gone(Luke)? Mary Magdalene, the "other" Mary find one dude there and see the tomb is empty(Matthew)? Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome meet one dude at the tomb(Luke)? Or was it just Mary Magdalene and one dude(John)?

These and other fairly large discrepancies about what is, really, the central mythology of the church make it hard for me to swallow. Based on what I've read, JC seemed like a pretty righteous dude, and he could always be counted on the bring some good stuff to the party, but he was the idea man. Without Paul to "tweak" his message (I think of Paul as the first Billy Mays) then I doubt that the religion would have grown the way it did.

If JC were to come back today I think he would drop some srs 'bows on 99.9% of the churches out there.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

So why dedicate ones life to Jesus, when his death was meaningless? When Jesus resurrected, the term "sacrifice" became nullified.

The assumption in your question is wrong. You assume that Jesus' death is meaningless, which it's not.

His sacrifice is not nullified just because he was resurrected.

Think it through by this example:

I make you a loan of $10,000. You pay me back 3 days later.

Is the loan I made to you meaningless just because you paid me back?

Was the meaning in giving you the loan nullified just because you pay me back?

 

[Patterner]

The assumption in your question is wrong. You assume that Jesus' death is meaningless, which it's not.

His sacrifice is not nullified just because he was resurrected.

Think it through by this example:

I make you a loan of $10,000. You pay me back 3 days later.

Is the loan I made to you meaningless just because you paid me back?

Was the meaning in giving you the loan nullified just because you pay me back?

The point of a sacrifice is that you're giving up something. In a Jewish sense, you're sacrificing the best of your flock and once you've sacrificed it, it's gone for good. If it comes back three days later, you didn't really sacrifice much did you? That's the difference between a sacrifice and a loan.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

The point of a sacrifice is that you're giving up something. In a Jewish sense, you're sacrificing the best of your flock and once you've sacrificed it, it's gone for good. If it comes back three days later, you didn't really sacrifice much did you? That's the difference between a sacrifice and a loan.

You're still stuck on the assumption that "the point of a sacrifice is that you're giving up something" where that something has to be permanent.

I believe that the key to Jesus' sacrifice is the idea that God (the only one capable of doing this act), in his infinite love and mercy, was willing to let himself be tortured and die so that humans can be permanently cleansed of their sins.

It's a gift from God, but only if they choose to accept that gift by believing in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

 

[Patterner]

You're still stuck on the assumption that "the point of a sacrifice is that you're giving up something" where that something has to be permanent.

I believe that the key to Jesus' sacrifice is the idea that God (the only one capable of doing this act), in his infinite love and mercy, was willing to let himself be tortured and die so that humans can be permanently cleansed of their sins.

It's a gift from God, but only if they choose to accept that gift by believing in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

It's not an assumption, it's the definition of the word: Definition of SACRIFICE

1
: an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
2
: something offered in sacrifice
3
a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b : something given up or lost <the sacrifices made by parents>

God is the only one capable of letting himself be tortured and die?

 

[Blackjack200]

It's a gift from God, but only if they choose to accept that gift by believing in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

I can only have the gift if I believe a fairy tale with no evidence. Gotcha. :thumbsup:

 

[Pray To Jesus]

It's not an assumption, it's the definition of the word: Definition of SACRIFICE

1
: an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
2
: something offered in sacrifice
3
a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b : something given up or lost <the sacrifices made by parents>

God is the only one capable of letting himself be tortured and die?

Did you even read the definition you posted? You think it supports your argument when it clearly supports mine. Just read the bolded parts and then what I said.

And yes, God is the only one capable of doing what Jesus did on the cross, which is much more than just getting tortured and die.

Sigh, I don't like discussing things with stupid people. They don't think before saying things.

Other times they're just too stupid to understand deeper meanings.

Sure I can destroy their arguments but what's the point when they are clearly too stupid to even understand that their arguments got destroyed.

Edit: I'm going to assume you're too stupid to understand what I meant so I'll explain it more clearly.

The bolded parts all has to to with surrendering or losing something precious, but it doesn't say anything about that surrender or lost being permanent.

Jesus surrendered his life on the cross to his Father for man's sake. Since Jesus is God, and God's life being the most precious thing I can imagine, that act is the best sacrifice possible by infinity to the next best sacrifice.

It's only by the grace and mercy of God that man is allowed to live after sinning against God.

Just because God the Father resurrected Jesus the Son doesn't mean that Jesus did not perform the ultimate sacrifice, giving his divine life, for man.

 

[busydude]

It's a gift from God, but only if they choose to accept that gift by believing in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

This statement grinds my gears every time I hear. There is no way a rational person is going to fall for that BS.. maybe you need to find a better way to preach(Time to edit the bible one more time.. may be throw in words like sex, tits, LOL, WTF, etc.. and you should be good).

 

[Lean L]

I thought the title was yet another rape thread. That would have truly had me asking what's the point.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

This statement grinds my gears every time I hear. There is no way a rational person is going to fall for that BS.. maybe you need to find a better way to preach(Time to edit the bible one more time.. may be throw in words like sex, tits, LOL, WTF, etc.. and you should be good).

It grinds your gears because it's the truth.

You profess you don't believe in it, yet deep down you're scared that it might be true. Because if you truly believe it's not true, you wouldn't be so mad when you hear that statement.

Bolded:

Rational according to you.

I believe I'm very rational and logical.

I believe people who don't believe in God are the irrational and foolish ones.

Prove me wrong.