YART - Whats the point?

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
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Everyone knows that God is omnipotent and omniscient, right? So he knew he was sending himself (son) straight to death and was going to resurrect a couple days later.

So why dedicate ones life to Jesus, when his death was meaningless? When Jesus resurrected, the term "sacrifice" became nullified. (hes a god ffs)


Believe it or not, I'm actually looking for a decent answer to this...yes here on ATOT.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Everyone knows that God is omnipotent and omniscient, right? So he knew he was sending himself (son) straight to death and was going to resurrect a couple days later.

So why dedicate ones life to Jesus, when his death was meaningless? When Jesus resurrected, the term "sacrifice" became nullified. (hes a god ffs)


Believe it or not, I'm actually looking for a decent answer to this...yes here on ATOT.

That's quite interesting, Hmm I'm not sure what the christian response would be but I'd imagine that they would argue that Jesus (while in his mortal form) was not omnipotent as he was not an omnipresent being and therefore while the magic (in the sky) god may have known about his impending death he (the human one) did not, that being said. God doesn't exist, and if you are going to dedicate your life to a delusion you may as well go all out. Unicorns and all.
 

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
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It still would not make sense if they claim that Jesus was not in god-mode when he walked the Earth. Jesus is part of the trinity. He turned water into wine, walked on water and performed miracles. Its clear Jesus was still in god mode.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
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Everyone knows that God is omnipotent and omniscient, right? So he knew he was sending himself (son) straight to death and was going to resurrect a couple days later.

So why dedicate ones life to Jesus, when his death was meaningless? When Jesus resurrected, the term "sacrifice" became nullified. (hes a god ffs)


Believe it or not, I'm actually looking for a decent answer to this...yes here on ATOT.

It isn't the death that you are supposed to be attracted to, it is the life. Jesus said a lot, but his death wasn't his selling point.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
It still would not make sense if they claim that Jesus was not in god-mode when he walked the Earth. Jesus is part of the trinity. He turned water into wine, walked on water and performed miracles. Its clear Jesus was still in god mode.

Yeah fair point. Maybe he was only half in god mode, then he turned it off when he didn't need it IDDQD

It isn't the death that you are supposed to be attracted to, it is the life. Jesus said a lot, but his death wasn't his selling point.

It is for some people, the number of times i've heard "He died for our sins!"
 

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
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It isn't the death that you are supposed to be attracted to, it is the life. Jesus said a lot, but his death wasn't his selling point.


Thats exactly why I said that the term, sacrifice, becomes obsolete when he resurrected. Jesus died for our sins, right? Isn't that his true selling point?
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
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Thats exactly why I said that the term, sacrifice, becomes obsolete when he resurrected. Jesus died for our sins, right? Isn't that his true selling point?

No, not really. He spent years on his selling point and just a day with dying. I think what he preached is what we should focus on.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
No, not really. He spent years on his selling point and just a day with dying. I think what he preached is what we should focus on.

Catholic school was fucked up. We were told several times that easter is more important than christmas because rising from the grave was important for some reason.

In reality that makes no sense because he can't spread his message when dead and coming back to life had no significance because even the bible says that people did not believe he came back. There's really no reason to do something if nobody believes it happened, like that time I beat Battletoads.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
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No, not really. He spent years on his selling point and just a day with dying. I think what he preached is what we should focus on.

Something I don't understand - if God was all-powerful, then why not simply have Jesus be immortal instead? Then he could stick around to give his teachings in person, and people wouldn't have doubt.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
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Catholic school was fucked up. We were told several times that easter is more important than christmas because rising from the grave was important for some reason.

In reality that makes no sense because he can't spread his message when dead and coming back to life had no significance because even the bible says that people did not believe he came back. There's really no reason to do something if nobody believes it happened, like that time I beat Battletoads.

Jesus rising from the dead is more likely than you beating battletoads.

And catholicism ignores a lot that Jesus said so it is no surprise that they obsess about Jesus dying.
 

Juddog

Diamond Member
Dec 11, 2006
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Jesus rising from the dead is more likely than you beating battletoads.

And catholicism ignores a lot that Jesus said so it is no surprise that they obsess about Jesus dying.

What do they ignore of his teachings?
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
0
Something I don't understand - if God was all-powerful, then why not simply have Jesus be immortal instead? Then he could stick around to give his teachings in person, and people wouldn't have doubt.

I think Jesus made a point about doubt. Besides, even if Jesus was walking around right now do you think that would change much? They didn't believe him 2000 years ago.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,857
31,346
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Something I don't understand - if God was all-powerful, then why not simply have Jesus be immortal instead? Then he could stick around to give his teachings in person, and people wouldn't have doubt.

but what would faith be without doubt?

:hmm:
 

Patterner

Senior member
Dec 20, 2010
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Since the vast majority of the churches I see are Pauline in slant, *most* ignore much of what Jesus said.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
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BeatDeadHorse.gif
 

dpodblood

Diamond Member
May 20, 2010
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Better question: If he knew Adam and Eve were going to eat the forbidden fruit, why did he put in there in the first place?
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
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I would like to think that the so called "god" that most of the religions rave about.. is just a symbolic entity created to give normal people an idea regarding how to lead an ideal life.There is no way could have walked on this planet..
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
14,696
2
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What do they ignore of his teachings?

Don't call anyone but God holy father is a pretty big one. Jesus made a point about righteousness being about love, not rules. The bible can be confusing when one New creates a religion while another condemns it.
 

Malak

Lifer
Dec 4, 2004
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Since the vast majority of the churches I see are Pauline in slant, *most* ignore much of what Jesus said.

Tolstoy said that churches didn't exist until there were at least 2 bodies of people that disagreed.
 

Patterner

Senior member
Dec 20, 2010
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One could argue that Jesus was against the formation of churches, a la Matthew 18:20. Also he seemed to think it was important that the Law be kept, as in Matthew 5:18, but since Paul (who never actually met the man) said different that's what most churches teach.

Jesus' message was generally about the Kingdom, whereas Pauls message is about faith.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
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Everyone knows that God is omnipotent and omniscient, right?

What do you mean, "Everyone knows..."?

First of all, there are hundreds of religions currently in practice not to mention several more which have fallen out of favor (keep that last bit in mind), not to mention THREE major divisions of Christianity. When it comes to religion you just can't say "God" and expect everyone to know who exactly you mean.

Second, there are three branches of Christianity because not everyone who thinks God had a son named Jesus thinks God thinks the same things (about us) or has the same powers, or works in the same way, or to what ends.

Third, there is exactly nowhere in the Bible where it lists God's powers. There is exactly nowhere in the Bible where is specifically states god is either omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent. These are all things people have assumed over the years based on the acts of god in that particular book. In case you're thinking those things might be in another book, there is no other book for Christianity; the Bible is the only sanctioned Christian text. There are other books ABOUT Christianity, and there are other books which contain Biblical characters, and which also add in their own, Paradise Lost comes to mind, Canterbury Tales might be another. It's often these side-projects where many of the ideas people attribute directly to Christianity come from, like the whole thing about Satan and the rebel angels being cast out of heaven, and what those guys are like, and what hell is like... ZERO of that stuff in the actual Bible. Blame the ecumenical councils for that garbage, and postulations on the powers of god, the meaning of life, the nature of Jesus, etc-- extrapolate that all the way down to modern Christians (I assume you're a Christian, because only a Christian would assume everyone else is), with all the inspired fiction writers in between, and you can see why people now might believe a bunch of stuff that's not even part of the religion.

Now that you understand that your question is hinged upon a complete fallacy, you will hopefully realize that is it meaningless.

On to the ANSWER!

No matter which main branch and sub-branch of Christianity you subscribe to, they do all have ONE THING in common, that Jesus is the son of God, born of Mary, and that his mission is to show the people a new way, forgiveness.

In the Old Testament, the idea of sin is fleshed out, but the idea of redemption is nowhere to be seen. God punishes sinners DIRECTLY, and there seems to be no method of cleansing yourself of sin. In fact, Heaven seems to be a place reserved only for those completely free of sin, which you can count on a few fingers, as everyone is born a sinner (thanks Eve!). There is simply not too much mention of forgiveness; wrath, eternal damnation, death... there is plenty of that.

It is not until you get to the New Testament that the concept of cleansing and forgiveness, and heaven for all is introduced to Christianity. In fact, FORGIVENESS IS THE NEW CONCEPT WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RAPID ADOPTION OF CHRISTIANTY! Until the New Testament was written, no religion prior seems to have used this theme-- that ordinary men could be forgiven and live an eternal life in heaven with god.

Here's what you are missing the point of: Jesus didn't die because he got caught up in something he could have avoided, or was somehow unlucky. Jesus went to Jerusalem with the express purpose of getting himself killed! Not only that, he wanted to make damn sure that he pissed off all of the most popular and powerful people he could, so that he was sure to not only die, but die the most horrific and gruesome death possible. Whether god is omniscient or not is irrelevant, it was Jesus' plan all along to get himself crucified. Why?

We are down now to the (lol) crux, of Christianity, that Jesus suffered and died for us!

This is why people devote their lives to him. It's a powerful idea. You are sinner. You are born a sinner. There is no way for you to cleanse yourself of sin (oops, in Catholicism, there is), and you can't live in heaven as a sinner, but you have a friend on your side, someone who will, take the punishment of god on himself, for your sins, so you may live eternally in heaven with god. Most Christians believe that Jesus is an eternal martyr; that he didn't just die that once on the cross, but dies for each and every one of us (who believes the correct things), when it is our time of need.

People devote their lives to Jesus because they think he is literally their savior. The rest of the stuff you have about the nature of Jesus and God is extraneous to the question.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,857
31,346
146
Better question: If he knew Adam and Eve were going to eat the forbidden fruit, why did he put in there in the first place?

Because God is an ass. This is pretty much all that anyone should get from the OT.


...It's also possible that God was the first troll.

:hmm: