YAMST El Paso Wall Mart

[zinfamous]

Trump is such a swell guy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158422451245789184

The absolute, un-obscure language of a real fascist. watch as the sheep bleat in support.

 

[glenn1]

Oh I agree it's most likely we won't pass any new laws. Not because new laws aren't insanely popular, but due to the fact that rural minorities get hugely disproportionate electoral influence. The thing is that's no reason not to keep trying because really all we need to do is succeed once. It's like with the ACA - Democrats tried over and over again and failed but once they got the ACA in place things were changed forever and people refused to go back.

So maybe we don't win today but we'll win eventually and once we do that's game over for you guys.

Yeah, that 1990s assault weapon ban is proof that "things will be changed forever and people refuse to go back."

 

[fskimospy]

I think the distinction that I and others who are 'meh' about the gun angle is that if a person is screwed in the head, not having a gun isn't going to stop them from harming themselves or others.

I strongly disagree as do all experts I am aware of. Having access to lethal means is one of the most significant risk factors for suicide, for example, and risk of homicide is also increased by access to firearms. If the argument is that they might somehow succeed in harming themselves or others without a gun it is certainly POSSIBLE that's the case, but all in all they will harm far fewer people without access to guns than with them.

I know we've went back and forth on this topic so I'm not going to rehash it, but to soley say 'guns are the reason' is disingenuous. It is a complex topic that will take complex solutions.

I think it is disingenuous to say that anyone argues that guns are the SOLE reason for violence, as no one thinks that. What people do think is that easy access to lethal means is the LARGEST reason for the difference in violence levels and that's probably accurate. It's also the one we can do the most about, which is convenient. We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and we aren't going to solve this in one fell swoop anyway so let's just grab the low hanging fruit.

In no case will they be timely. We as a populace are too divided, too angry, too far gone to fix this any time soon, and I think what you will find from the most vocal is they think this is something that can be fixed overnight by making a few laws. This country is unhappy. If the idea is to simply get back to the 'non reported on' daily gang violence, then okay, I suppose we could make some progress if that will make everyone feel better, but we all know that if we are being honest with ourselves banning assault weapons is not the actual solution - it will have to go far beyond that basically to the point of banning all guns. I realize in today's world that may sound like the sane thing to do, but complacency and comfort don't always coincide with what is best for the actual country.

I'm not aware of anyone who thinks we can solve our violence problem overnight by making a few laws. Yes though, any effective gun control regimen would have to include handguns as well, as they are the most commonly used firearm in homicides/suicides. In today's world that is the sane thing to do and I have yet to hear what societal benefit mass availability of lethal weapons has given us.

 

[dainthomas]

Some really sound Republican advice.../s
Mike Huckabee: Thoughts And Prayers Are 'Only Thing' That Will Stop Mass Shootings


https://www.yahoo.com/news/mike-huckabee-thoughts-and-prayers-225040786.html

Talk about mental illness.

 

[Muse]

Go ahead and push for tighter gun control laws. It will ensure your side will lose the next election badly, plus the laws will be widely broken - it's an article of faith on the left that if abortion access is reduced that women will just use coat hangers since they'll refuse to not obey the laws and not abort, do you think gun owners will be more compliant to laws restricting gun access?

Yes, I do. A woman with an unwanted fetus is in a pickle. She's either going to take it to term or have an abortion. An American with an outlawed gun in their possession is in a different predicament. No unwanted baby coming in 7 months, no. But a potential prosecution at some future time if the authorities become aware of the violation. What is the point of retaining something you can't use? If you use it, you're likely to wind up behind bars. Even if you don't use it, just possessing it (if discovered) will get you prison time and your life derailed. WE NEED GUN CONTROL. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND COME TO YOUR SENSES!

 

[Muse]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1039301

He's deeply concerned

He's a greasy weasel.

 

[pmv]

I think the distinction that I and others who are 'meh' about the gun angle is that if a person is screwed in the head, not having a gun isn't going to stop them from harming themselves or others. I know we've went back and forth on this topic so I'm not going to rehash it, but to solely say 'guns are the reason' is disingenuous. It is a complex topic that will take complex solutions. In no case will they be timely. We as a populace are too divided, too angry, too far gone to fix this any time soon, and I think what you will find from the most vocal is they think this is something that can be fixed overnight by making a few laws. This country is unhappy. If the idea is to simply get back to the 'non reported on' daily gang violence, then okay, I suppose we could make some progress if that will make everyone feel better, but we all know that if we are being honest with ourselves banning assault weapons is not the actual solution - it will have to go far beyond that basically to the point of banning all guns. I realize in today's world that may sound like the sane thing to do, but complacency and comfort don't always coincide with what is best for the actual country.

No shortage of mental-health problems here. And mental health services are creaking at the seams. Occasionally a mentally-disturbed individual will go on a stabbing or other kind of rampage. But they don't kill anywhere near as many people as shooters do in the US.

 

[ch33zw1z]

No shortage of mental-health problems here. And mental health services are creaking at the seams. Occasionally a mentally-disturbed individual will go on a stabbing or other kind of rampage. But they don't kill anywhere near as many people as shooters do in the US.

It's unfortunate you dont enjoy the same freedom to terrorize your fellow countrymen and women as we do. The best is terrorizing children, America is especially free that way, it's a great place to live. mowing down dozens of people at a time is a solid reminder how were a beacon of Hope, love, and freedom. After all, it's what Jesus would do in this christian country. It's exactly what the founding fathers intended with the 2A. They literally spelled it out. "The right to bear arms and terrorize others". It's a solid amendment, directly classifying freedom as the founders intended.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I think the distinction that I and others who are 'meh' about the gun angle is that if a person is screwed in the head, not having a gun isn't going to stop them from harming themselves or others.

Actually it often does. People that use knifes and blunt objects tend to mostly do superficial damage. While those that use firearms tend to kill.

Firearms are easy. It is a hell of a lot harder to actually go through with violence when you have to do it up close and personal. Most people will not go through with the violence if they have to use a weapon that takes effort.

Beyond that it greatly limits just how much damage they can do before they are stopped. We rarely ever hear of a mass baseball bat killing.

 

[blackangst1]

I strongly disagree as do all experts I am aware of. Having access to lethal means is one of the most significant risk factors for suicide, for example, and risk of homicide is also increased by access to firearms. If the argument is that they might somehow succeed in harming themselves or others without a gun it is certainly POSSIBLE that's the case, but all in all they will harm far fewer people without access to guns than with them.

This is so incorrect. Its not having access to firearms thats the problem. Its training. Switzerland for example is one of the highest per capita gun ownership countries in the world; however, their culture is to train, even kids, on proper firearm use. Also, red flag laws which help here in the US. and their murder rate is near zero for guns.

 

[fskimospy]

This is so incorrect. Its not having access to firearms thats the problem. Its training. Switzerland for example is one of the highest per capita gun ownership countries in the world; however, their culture is to train, even kids, on proper firearm use. Also, red flag laws which help here in the US. and their murder rate is near zero for guns.

No, this is wildly incorrect. The issue is somewhere around 0% training. Training would be an issue if a large proportion of firearms deaths were accidental but they are not. People are killed with firearms in the US because that’s precisely what the user intended.

If you would like I can show you large volumes of peer reviewed medical literature showing the prevalence of firearms as a risk factor for both homicide and suicide.

 

[blackangst1]

No, this is wildly incorrect. The issue is somewhere around 0% training. Training would be an issue if a large proportion of firearms deaths were accidental but they are not. People are killed with firearms in the US because that’s precisely what the user intended.

If you would like I can show you large volumes of peer reviewed medical literature showing the prevalence of firearms as a risk factor for both homicide and suicide.

Wouldnt that fly in the face of real life exmaples like Switzerland?>

 

[soundforbjt]

This is so incorrect. Its not having access to firearms thats the problem. Its training. Switzerland for example is one of the highest per capita gun ownership countries in the world; however, their culture is to train, even kids, on proper firearm use. Also, red flag laws which help here in the US. and their murder rate is near zero for guns.

They also don't have the mental health issues we have, the economic disparities we have, etc. They also strongly regulate ammo. Poor choice to compare the US to.

 

[blackangst1]

They also don't have the mental health issues we have, the economic disparities we have, etc. They also strongly regulate ammo. Poor choice to compare the US to.

Im not comparing at all since both countrys are so dissimilar. Im making the point that the number of guns in the country have nothing to do with the violence. Economic disparities have nothing to do with this either. Its all about training and common sense laws. But obviously, it works. We could move in that direction and still keep the 2A intact.

 

[fskimospy]

Wouldnt that fly in the face of real life exmaples like Switzerland?>

No? Switzerland has low rates of homicide generally. Guns don’t make people want to kill people, they make people better at killing those they want to kill. Training has zero to do with it. After all if that were the case veteran homicide commission rates would be lower than average and they aren’t. Doesn’t that blow up your training theory right there?

If you care about the effect of guns on homicide and suicide rates there’s a large body of empirical literature on it. The findings overwhelmingly state more guns = more murder and more suicide. Are you interested in reading it with an open mind?

It’s common sense when you think about it. Easy access to lethal weapons means they are more likely to be used.

 

[blackangst1]

No? Switzerland has low rates of homicide generally. Guns don’t make people want to kill people, they make people better at killing those they want to kill. Training has zero to do with it. After all if that were the case veteran homicide commission rates would be lower than average and they aren’t. Doesn’t that blow up your training theory right there?

If you care about the effect of guns on homicide and suicide rates there’s a large body of empirical literature on it. The findings overwhelmingly state more guns = more murder and more suicide. Are you interested in reading it with an open mind?

It’s common sense when you think about it. Easy access to lethal weapons means they are more likely to be used.

Then why is Switzerlands homicide rate so low despite higher per capita gun ownership?

I just dont agree with your thinking here so we'll agree to disagree. Im not going to change your mind and you arent going to change mine.

 

[fskimospy]

Gun ownership doesn’t affect homicide rate?

Hmm.

 

[Amused]

This is so incorrect. Its not having access to firearms thats the problem. Its training. Switzerland for example is one of the highest per capita gun ownership countries in the world; however, their culture is to train, even kids, on proper firearm use. Also, red flag laws which help here in the US. and their murder rate is near zero for guns.

Oh bullshit. And a Swiss would be the first to disagree with you. Swiss gun laws are VERY strict. In point of fact, the NRA loses their shit any time a Swiss like gun law requiring permits, licenses, inspections, tightly controlled ammo sales and manditory intensive training are proposed.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bearing-arms_how-gun-loving-switzerland-regulates-its-firearms/43573832

 

[fskimospy]

Then why is Switzerlands homicide rate so low despite higher per capita gun ownership?

I just dont agree with your thinking here so we'll agree to disagree. Im not going to change your mind and you arent going to change mine.

I’m offering to provide you with empirical research into precisely this question that forms the basis for my opinion. As far as I can tell your opinion is based on the fact that Switzerland exists.

I won’t agree to disagree with you here as that would indicate that I find your opinion to be equally valid, which it isn’t, because it’s based on functionally zero evidence.

 

[blackangst1]

Oh bullshit. And a Swiss would be the first to disagree with you. Swiss gun laws are VERY strict. In point of fact, the NRA loses their shit any time a Swiss like gun law requiring permits, licenses, inspections, tightly controlled ammo sales and manditory intensive training are proposed.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bearing-arms_how-gun-loving-switzerland-regulates-its-firearms/43573832

Uh...I never said they werent....

 

[blackangst1]

I’m offering to provide you with empirical research into precisely this question that forms the basis for my opinion. As far as I can tell your opinion is based on the fact that Switzerland exists.

I won’t agree to disagree with you here as that would indicate that I find your opinion to be equally valid, which it isn’t, because it’s based on functionally zero evidence.

Ive read the summaries backing your opinion. Its essentially similar to if you own a car youre more likely to be in an accident. I get it. There are also studies that show training and licensing reduce gun violence. THIS for example.

And agreeing to disagree doesnt mean you think the other persons point is valid.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Then why is Switzerlands homicide rate so low despite higher per capita gun ownership?

I just dont agree with your thinking here so we'll agree to disagree. Im not going to change your mind and you arent going to change mine.

Switzerland is an interesting case. There has been quite a bit of research into why, and the answer comes down to some combination of their population being rather low and the people being rather happier than average, along with better ability to seek remedies that don't involve violence, like easy access to mental health care. Basically It has a lot to do with how socialist their nation is. Socialist nations tend to be happy.

 

[blackangst1]

Switzerland is an interesting case. There has been quite a bit of research into why, and the answer comes down to some combination of their population being rather low and the people being rather happier than average, along with better ability to seek remedies that don't involve violence, like easy access to mental health care. Basically It has a lot to do with how socialist their nation is. Socialist nations tend to be happy.

Uh, Switzerland is not socialist. They are quite free.

 

[Amused]

Uh...I never said they werent....

Good. Then let us adopt the Swiss gun laws. Tell your buddies at the NRA. See how quickly they put you on mute.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Gun ownership doesn’t affect homicide rate?

Hmm.

Oops.