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YAJT: Got a job offer, lowball salary

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LOL exactly get your PhD. I had the same problem BS chemistry but then got MS in Materials Engineering.. started same as those with a BS. Another thing I found I could never get my name as a priciple investigator no matter how much money I was able to bring in and the daily contact and management I kept over the contracts, that's reserved for PhDs. They making 150-190 now I'm a little over half that.:|
 
I actually started grad school with the intention of pursuing a PhD right away. I thought I knew exactly what I wanted to do. However, after being exposed to more research areas in my field (robotics), I grew to develop more widespread interests. Ultimately, I felt like there was too much I was interested in and I couldn't decide what sub-field I would focus on for my PhD. So, I decided to get some real world experience. I still plan to pursue a PhD eventually but I'd like some experience under my belt first.
 
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Originally posted by: electricJ
Is a Masters even a qualification for this job? It could be possible that the job only requires a Bachelor's and the offer reflects that plus no experience.
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Like an entry level engineer?
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uhhh... maybe
 
45k is somewhat of a low offer and especially for you. A similar experience of myself... I just have a BS in EE myself, and last year when I was looking, I was offered $37k/year by one small firm with almost no benefits (live in Evansville, IN). They wouldn't negotiate, so I looked a little further and took a job in the same area for $52k/year with more benefits just a couple weeks later.

There are some companies out there who either don't have a clue or could care less.
 
For every "you're getting lowballed" there's a "you're inexperienced". If a company doesn't negotiate, they're the evil force keepin' tha man down. If they do negotiate, you're somehow a genius whose worked the system.

You want to know how much a diamond is worth in real-world value? Take it to a pawn shop.
You want to know what to expect for hiring? Spend some time in the networking/unemployment threads.

Knight, you did say that the average for an Engineer in your area is 55K. Well, if that's an average, then you're right in line at the low end considering that the low-end is academics with little/no experience and the high-end is academics with years+ of experience. Though impressive in academics, you're untried and unproven in the workforce. Every company evaluates the potential risk/benefit of such a venture differently.

But it doesn't have to be about whether or not the company recognizes you. It may be a simple matter of a company knowing what they're willing to pay for a job. It's not [/i]always[/i] a black ops maneuver from HR, though sometimes a shrewd negotiation will net you a noticeable benefit. One thing is certain however; the worth of your hiring is proven or disproven over time.

The one smart suggestion I've seen in this thread (actually, there have been a few; but the best one..) is to hire initally on their terms with an agreement (written) to revisit performance and salary after a period of time. You're both giving each other a trial wherein' you learn the ropes and apply your book knowledge; they hire to spec and have an opportunity to determine whether you're worth paying more to keep around.

Note that some positions aren't always a growth position. But that doesn't mean that it can't be a stepping stone in and of itself if not with that company then another.

Your academics are well earned and something to be proud of. No doubt in time you'll have the experience and understanding to actualize the salary you're seeking. Just don't start out thinking that it's the company's job to appreciate and understand you based on an interview and credentials.

Right now, the world is your oyster - or something like that. You don't have to take the job if you're not comfortable with it. You can take a low offer and use it for experience and to have some change in your pocket 'till you renegotiate or find something else. You can politely move on and hold out for the job offer that makes you all tingly inside. It really depends on your pain threshold.

 
Why are you all onvinced that a master degree with no real world experience makes you a hot commodity?

Me: 5 years experienc as a software engineer. been an interviewer. Know what employers want.

Conclusion: Employers could care less that you have a masters if your work experience is cutting grass.
 
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Why are you all onvinced that a master degree with no real world experience makes you a hot commodity?

Me: 5 years experienc as a software engineer. been an interviewer. Know what employers want.

Conclusion: Employers could care less that you have a masters if your work experience is cutting grass.
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No offense, but if you are not a manager/director you don't know how this works.

Staff are always shafted when it comes to an offer. The thing is to keep them super happy thinking they are making "big money"

In previous lives a 'staff' position was budgeted at 130K for a FTE. If they take 45K, the more for me come end of year.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
No offense, but if you are not a manager/director you don't know how this works.

Staff are always shafted when it comes to an offer. The thing is to keep them super happy thinking they are making "big money"

In previous lives a 'staff' position was budgeted at 130K for a FTE. If they take 45K, the more for me come end of year.
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No offense, but that's how YOUR gigs have worked. In twelve years, every hire I've made has been at or near the top of a paygrade if the skills warrant the pay. If a candidate looks like they have potential but is unproven, I'll make a lower offer with a written option to review based on performance. They can walk away from it with no hard feelings.

I don't receive a bonus based on how hard I shaft my employee's salaries. I get my bonus based on whether I achieve performance objectives that grow the department and company as a whole. My employees benefit from being well paid for the work they do. They can't just pack up and get the same pay elsewhere, and that keeps me from always looking for staff with exceptional skills and low standards of living.

 
Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Why are you all onvinced that a master degree with no real world experience makes you a hot commodity?

Me: 5 years experienc as a software engineer. been an interviewer. Know what employers want.

Conclusion: Employers could care less that you have a masters if your work experience is cutting grass.
Click to expand...

True, but I given that I have significantly more research experience than someone with a bachelor's I believe that I am more valuable. The way I see it, although I lack work experience, I am still better qualified to do the job than a typical fresh out of undergrad engineer coming in with a bachelors. I don't think that it's unreasonable for me to expect to see that reflected at least to some small degree in my salary.
 
if i had a masters in engineering, i wouldnt take a job thats going to pay me only 45K. I got 46K starting with a bachelors in Comp Engg.

But that's just me....
 
Just remember one thing, don't go into a job offer assuming you will get some magical promotion / raise every year. Go in as if this is what you expect to be paid every year for the work you provide. A lot of companies love to get employees roped in on a lower deal and then never give them much more than their 3% per year regardless of how good they are. In this deal, the employer feels they have "won".
 
Originally posted by: skace
Just remember one thing, don't go into a job offer assuming you will get some magical promotion / raise every year. Go in as if this is what you expect to be paid every year for the work you provide. A lot of companies love to get employees roped in on a lower deal and then never give them much more than their 3% per year regardless of how good they are. In this deal, the employer feels they have "won".
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That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm also concerned that if I ever then go to change jobs, the new company will look at my salary history and have grounds to also try to low ball me. I just don't want to make a wrong move here that could have lasting consequences in my career.
 
Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
Originally posted by: skace
Just remember one thing, don't go into a job offer assuming you will get some magical promotion / raise every year. Go in as if this is what you expect to be paid every year for the work you provide. A lot of companies love to get employees roped in on a lower deal and then never give them much more than their 3% per year regardless of how good they are. In this deal, the employer feels they have "won".
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm also concerned that if I ever then go to change jobs, the new company will look at my salary history and have grounds to also try to low ball me. I just don't want to make a wrong move here that could have lasting consequences in my career.
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You never have to provide the salary history to a potential employer.

Also, you can explain that you took the first job out of school, because of the challenges, to get the experience, the ability to prove yourself, etc.

After the second, third employer; they will be more interested in the experience that you bring to the table, rather than the salary. That is what they have based the budget around.

Best bet on the first situation is to explain that you feel that their offer is to low.
If they can not get into the ballpark initially, attempt to setup a compriiise of a review with increase after 3 or 6 months and against on the normal review cycle.

 
$45k seems low. If the job looks very attractive, tell them $50k firm + a 6 month performance review that will yield a $5k increase if they're happy with your work.

(Assuming you really want to work there)

"Well, I'm quite interested in the position but I don't feel that $45k/year is representative of my experience and work ethic. To give you an opportunity to see what I'm talking about, how about you start me at $50k/year and give me a performance review in 6 months. If you're happy with my work, you increase my salary to $55k/year with annual performance reviews from that point forward."

This is a very reasonable request, and if they won't work with you on it, you probably don't want to be there in the first place (unless you really, REALLY need the job).

The flips-side is, like someone else said, just take the offer to buy yourself time to look for another opportunity.
 
Assuming benefits are average......no way would I take that offer, unless you really need it. Hopefully you don't.

As a point of reference perhaps:

Here in low-cost-of-living Ohio we recently hired an MSEE for $60k and above average benefits. He was from a nearby public university. His related work experience was one year total co-op as an undergraduate and one summer as an intern during graduate school. 15 months total.
 
Yes 45K is a bit low, a friend of mine recently got a with the private contract for the govt starting at $55k with $2k signing bonus and he recently graduated with Mechanical Engineering degree.
 
Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Most engineering companies are now not giving you any more money just because you had a master. They're expecting your higher education to make you work better and do better in the workplace, which makes sense.
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A master's student that has done research (as I have) and has published also has more work experience, albeit academic, in addition to the higher education.
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Academic exerience is no substitute for real world experience in the majority of engineering. Now your speciality might be a bit different but it might not.
 
You are getting some good but a lot of bad advice on this subject.

You have no job and no real experience so you don't have any real leverage here to negotiate on and they know that. They target college grads for that reason.

The rule of thumb is there is a 10% range you can normally negotiate from. So with them offering you 45k you should be able to get a least 47k-50k but by there tone on this I'm thinking 47k is your best bet or you could play it safe and ask for a 1 time sign on bonus after 6 months of 2k to 4k. Asking for a review and a 5k increase isn't a good bet by there tone but 1 time bonus is.

Things people are failing to tell you are it is easier to get a job when you have a job. Employers know they are going to have to beat what you are making currently by 10% and you don't have to tell them what you are making when they make there offer. Chances are they just add 10% on the area average.

The HR person doesn't decide how much you make the program manager does. That's why when you ask for more they have to get back to you because they lack the authority to give you more in most cases. Don't get pissy with an HR person there just doing there job and getting on there sht list is a bad opening career move.

My wife took a position that required us to move to the DC metro area. I put in a transfer with my current company and requested a cost of living increase with the move. IMO they lowballed me on that increase but I took the offer to get the move done to be with my family. Once I got here I immediately started to field offers.

I was able to get more then what I wanted within a month. The odd thing about how I negotiated my current salary was they tried to lowball me as well but since I had a job I was able to give them what range I wanted and told them to take it or move on. I got much more then what I was making and what they originally offered by 35% because I wasn't unemployed and desperate. They needed me I only wanted them. Hence I was in power when it came to negotiating salary.

To sum up this book, take the offer get out of mom and dad's house and keep looking.
 
45 seems pretty low considering the area, I'd definitely negotiate. If they're firm on the salary, there are plenty of other employment opportunities.

I just signed an offer for 63K + 10k signing bonus + free tuition anywhere doing mostly CS. I'll be fresh out of school in the summer. (this is in New York though)
 
Originally posted by: WhiteKnight

True, but I given that I have significantly more research experience than someone with a bachelor's I believe that I am more valuable. The way I see it, although I lack work experience, I am still better qualified to do the job than a typical fresh out of undergrad engineer coming in with a bachelors. I don't think that it's unreasonable for me to expect to see that reflected at least to some small degree in my salary.
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It's not, but you are looking to get the average without understanding what the average is.

Given the boom bust we have just exited from, I would expect you to be below average since there were so many experienced people looking for work.

You may be able to get more money from the potential employer, but it may leave a bad taste in their mouth - not something you want to do with your first employer since all future employers will judge you more on your references than on your academic performance.
 
Originally posted by: Kabold
You are getting some good but a lot of bad advice on this subject.

You have no job and no real experience so you don't have any real leverage here to negotiate on and they know that. They target college grads for that reason.

The rule of thumb is there is a 10% range you can normally negotiate from. So with them offering you 45k you should be able to get a least 47k-50k but by there tone on this I'm thinking 47k is your best bet or you could play it safe and ask for a 1 time sign on bonus after 6 months of 2k to 4k. Asking for a review and a 5k increase isn't a good bet by there tone but 1 time bonus is.

Things people are failing to tell you are it is easier to get a job when you have a job. Employers know they are going to have to beat what you are making currently by 10% and you don't have to tell them what you are making when they make there offer. Chances are they just add 10% on the area average.

The HR person doesn't decide how much you make the program manager does. That's why when you ask for more they have to get back to you because they lack the authority to give you more in most cases. Don't get pissy with an HR person there just doing there job and getting on there sht list is a bad opening career move.

My wife took a position that required us to move to the DC metro area. I put in a transfer with my current company and requested a cost of living increase with the move. IMO they lowballed me on that increase but I took the offer to get the move done to be with my family. Once I got here I immediately started to field offers.

I was able to get more then what I wanted within a month. The odd thing about how I negotiated my current salary was they tried to lowball me as well but since I had a job I was able to give them what range I wanted and told them to take it or move on. I got much more then what I was making and what they originally offered by 35% because I wasn't unemployed and desperate. They needed me I only wanted them. Hence I was in power when it came to negotiating salary.

To sum up this book, take the offer get out of mom and dad's house and keep looking.
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Excellent first post! Thanks. Fortunately, I a luxury I do have right now is that my wife and I are financially stable. She's in a PhD program and although we're living the budget lifestyle we're making it just fine on her stipend alone. I'll take your comments into consideration.
 
Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
Originally posted by: Kabold
You are getting some good but a lot of bad advice on this subject.

...

To sum up this book, take the offer get out of mom and dad's house and keep looking.
Click to expand...

Excellent first post! Thanks. Fortunately, I have the luxury I do have right now is that my wife and I are financially stable. She's in a PhD program and although we're living the budget lifestyle we're making it just fine on her stipend alone. I'll take your comments into consideration.
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From the employer's point-of-view, unemployed equals desperate. They do not consider you able to live the budget lifestyle simply because you need a job.
 
Originally posted by: birdpup
Originally posted by: WhiteKnight
Originally posted by: Kabold
You are getting some good but a lot of bad advice on this subject.

...

To sum up this book, take the offer get out of mom and dad's house and keep looking.
Click to expand...

Excellent first post! Thanks. Fortunately, I have the luxury I do have right now is that my wife and I are financially stable. She's in a PhD program and although we're living the budget lifestyle we're making it just fine on her stipend alone. I'll take your comments into consideration.
Click to expand...

From the employer's point-of-view, unemployed equals desperate. They do not consider you able to live the budget lifestyle simply because you need a job.
Click to expand...

What I meant is that I don't necessarily feel the need to take the first offer that comes along just to make ends meet.

First post edited, they've offered $50k
 
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