YAHCT sorta. The Dow. Up or down today?

[Hayabusa Rider]

The health care bill is awesome.
The health care bill is a disaster.


Place your bets!

How will business see this? Will stocks go up or down today?

 

[rudder]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYUeBnitz7nU

 

[Linflas]

I suspect this will have little short term effect on the stock market. In fact the insurance stocks may go up since they are now nothing more than a government utility with a potential forced customer base supplying them an income base in 2014. There is a reason why the insurance companies sat there and took all the Democrat insults and demagoguery regarding "evil insurance companies" without much of a push back.

 

[Zebo]

Who the hell knows? I vote down 325.

 

[boomerang]

I say up because of the windfall the insurance providers will reap in the short term. In the long term of course, they're toast.

 

[her209]

I say it was priced in on Friday.

 

[StageLeft]

Down by under 100 but I am cheating since it opened 4 minutes ago and is currently down 30 or 50 or something. It's impossible to read a shrinking of the DOW today as to what the health care bill's actual impact on the market will be in the future, though.

 

[Zebo]

99% of businesses on stock market arnt HC and I predict Caterpillar's predictions of huge costs will hit home.

 

[StageLeft]

I say up because of the windfall the insurance providers will reap in the short term. In the long term of course, they're toast.

Good call and I had not thought of it until I read this five minutes ago:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticke...ci,hcn,wlp&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

The second reason is that with a captive population forced to buy their mediocre products, the insurers will collect monopoly rents that infuriate the public. With few market checks, tensions will boil, and politicians will pursue a solution. That solution will be the public option.

I hope this optimism is true. I say optimism because I'd rather be forced to buy it from the gov than a few corporations who manipulate the gov with lobbying anyway.

Well, I think this country needed change. I'm mostly reserving any opinion on whether it will be good or not at this point, I don't know yet.

 

[yllus]

Healthcare Morning After: Aetna, Cigna Rise, Others Fall; Amerigroup Upgraded

After passage of the healthcare reform bill in the U.S. House of Representatives last night, health insurers stocks have diverged sharply in pre-market trading, with Aetna (AET) up 71 cents, or 2%, at $35.17, and Cigna (CI) up 97 cents, or 2.6%, at $38.05, and just about everyone else trading down or only up slightly: UnitedHealth Group (UNH) is up 1 penny at $34.40, Humana (HUM) is down 40 cents, or 0.8%, at $49.60, HealthSpring (HS) is unchanged at $18.65, HealthNet (HNT) is unchanged at $26.15.

One of the first upgrades to come down the pike today is an upgrade to “Buy” at Collins Stewart on the shares of $1.6 billion Amerigroup (AGP), a managed care firm covering 1.8 million people, primarily those in Medicaid and Medicare, in 11 states, including Texas, Georgia, Florida, and New York.

Analyst Brian Wright this morning says Amerigroup will be a primary beneficiary of the expected 30% expansion of Medicaid after the reform bill takes full effect starting in 2014. The shares have run-up recently from $25 to $31 and change, but Wright says it’s still cheap, trading at 12 times his 2011 EPS estimate of $2.60.

Wright thinks the stock should trade at 15 times or more his 2011 estimate, or $39, writing “We note that given the outlook for robust growth for the next 5 years, we could see Medicaid plan multiples approach prior peaks (20x range.).”

Amerigroup shares are up 67 cents, or 2%, at $32.06.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Merck is climbing quickly... people know where the gov funds are going.

It's basic supply and demand: the government is artificially increasing demand for health care but supply will take time to match up, if it ever can, so in the mean time prices and profits will skyrocket.

So people are buying expecting increased profits and dividends.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I hope this optimism is true. I say optimism because I'd rather be forced to buy it from the gov than a few corporations who manipulate the gov with lobbying anyway.

You do realize that you are being manipulated into it, right? The government screws up then people go running to it in order to fix things. Private insurance certainly has it's problems, but if you like the financial condition of NY now you are gonna love what it looks like nationally in 10 years.

 

[Zebo]

+50.79, predicted -325 = fail - this is why I don't screw with it.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The health care bill is awesome.
The health care bill is a disaster.


Place your bets!

How will business see this? Will stocks go up or down today?

It's a political win for Obama, it doesn't do all that much on the whole.

I was going to say "welcome to the 18'th century" but then i realised that the welfare of the nation was left in the gutter for Americans after all.

This bill is probably the worst possible outcome possible, it is a lobby proposal made real.

Pretty much nothing is going to change except a rise in insurance rates, out of all possible outcomes, this one was the worst.

And yes, i did take in all knowledge from different parties and Haya know my stance very well and he'll tell you that i will never be against anything that provides UHC. THIS one is for the insurance companies, bought and surely well paid for too.

 

[highland145]

THIS one is for the insurance companies, bought and surely well paid for too.

And Big Pharma and the peeps that got special deals. The 21% medicare cut took effect 3/1/10. The elderly are surly getting one of the screws.

Edit:I say up. Yeah, I cheated.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

And Big Pharma and the peeps that got special deals. The 21% medicare cut took effect 3/1/10. The elderly are surly getting one of the screws.

Yah, you got 200% of the price, Canada gets 100% rest of the world gets 10-20% and they are still making a profit on that.

This won't affect medicare though.

In reality, letting those who are with what you need to stay alive roam free to set whatever price they want is daft, all nations except the US realised this a long time ago.

 

[Slew Foot]

Cant believe I agree with JOS. This was one huge taxpayer giveaway to the insurance and pharm industry.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Cant believe I agree with JOS. This was one huge taxpayer giveaway to the insurance and pharm industry.

I'm English, i don't give a fuck about your petty partisan politics. So that might be why we agree on this..

 

[highland145]

This won't affect medicare though.

If the rumors about the $500B cut in the bill are true then it will affect medicare.

 

[her209]

Hey even Caterpillar ended in the positive
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3ACAT

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

If the rumors about the $500B cut in the bill are true then it will affect medicare.

I should shut up since i obviously don't know all the implications here.

My apologies for that.

I'll follow this with interest and we can discuss it when the dust has settled and the implications are known, ok?

 

[highland145]

I should shut up since i obviously don't know all the implications here.

My apologies for that.

I'll follow this with interest and we can discuss it when the dust has settled and the implications are known, ok?

You may be across the pond but you have insights that I don't because of your current system and , as always, I need all the enlightenment I can get.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You may be across the pond but you have insights that I don't because of your current system and , as always, I need all the enlightenment I can get.

I think our different systems are so different that they are not comparable as it is, even if you had single payer you'd pay about 30-50X more for some things just because that is how it's done.

You already paid more tax payer money per GDP han England for you very low public coverage.

Without single payer i'm afraid it's going to be a much to high price to pay, what do you have to negotiate with when everyone is forced to join without rate limits?

 

[StageLeft]

Well, I got that wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well, I got that wrong.

It happens when you forget you don't know anything.