YAHCT: Remember when obama promised us we could keep our own insurance?

[rudder]

So you're basically complaining that employers will choose to change your health insurance, just like they always could.

RTFA (read the fucking article)

I am complaining because obama was full of shit. My healthcare bill will become a lot more expensive. I cannot keep my current health insurance plan because the bill is designed to prevent companies from keeping costs under control. My employer will have no choice but to offer a new plan subject to obamacare regulations (loss of grandfathered status and now with increased expenses).

Here read this ... educate yourself.

http://www.posey.house.gov/UploadedFiles/HealthCareReformDraftRegulations-June-2010.pdf

Then come back and have an intelligent discussion.

 

[theeedude]

Frankly your point is idiotic. If you work for someone else you are at their whim. If you want to keep the same policy, year after year, you can buy your own. I have been at m current job 5 years. My insurance options have changed. The original insurance company I had is no longer an option. I have kept the same doctor throughout. My costs have been adjusted for inflation. This IS NOT want the thread is about. Not even the same thing. Sorry for the personal attack, but damn when you are stupid on purpose.. what else is there.

Is this better... "If you like your employer subsidized healthcare plan provided by a multitude of companies which may or may not change based on economic conditions... you will no longer be able to get health care through your employer. Businesses will have no option but to either pay the fine or provide new policies whose costs will be driven up by a multitude of not so well thought out consumer protections."

I apologize, I can not make it any clearer.

RTFA stands for Read The Fucking Article.

Despite your scare tactics, I will still be able to get coverage through my employer even after Obama care. You make it sound like insurance regulations are something new.

 

[IGBT]

he's a liar. just like he lied that your taxes won't be raised.

 

[Sclamoz]

RTFA (read the fucking article)

I am complaining because obama was full of shit. My healthcare bill will become a lot more expensive. I cannot keep my current health insurance plan because the bill is designed to prevent companies from keeping costs under control. My employer will have no choice but to offer a new plan subject to obamacare regulations (loss of grandfathered status and now with increased expenses).

Here read this ... educate yourself.

http://www.posey.house.gov/UploadedFiles/HealthCareReformDraftRegulations-June-2010.pdf

Then come back and have an intelligent discussion.

I'm fairly certain the Obama administration saying people will be able to keep their insurance was in regards to people spreading rumors that the government was going to take over health insurance. Obama wasn't guaranteeing your company would never switch insurers (which happened to me in 2006) just that the government wasn't stepping into replace them.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Do I have your permission to change your user name to "Pyrrhic Victory"?

You're a mod, you can do what you want!

Besides, I'm sure that other mods would see the humor in it and support you.

lol

You're priceless!

Do you have any instructional videos or CDs I can buy on how to be so amazingly awesome? I, too, want to be able to know the future with such certainty so I can put down more level headed people who aren't willing to rush to judgement on laws that haven't been enacted yet.

The Bill could be a complete and utter failure. I'm skeptical of it. But it is downright sad and pathetic that this nation is degenerating to a level of two sides, both saying "we're right and everyone else is wrong. If you don't agree with us you are uninformed or stupid."

Is this all we are? Knee jerk, mindless apes with less fur? Can we acheive any level of reasonable discourse or differences in opinion without resorting to an "us vs. them" mentality?

Unfortunately, that is what our society has become. Go with what you feel and believe is right, regardless of the consequences and evidence that could change that point of view.

We thrive on "us vs them", and not raised to look at both sides objectively while remaining open to new ideas that are different than the current options. If you're not with me, and my ideas then you are against me. There is no middle ground. There is no take the best ideas from all options. There is no bring all of your ideas to the table, where every idea will at least be discussed. Humanity is wired (or our cultures have developed) to look at things as only 2, and some rare cases 3, sided then the side(s) that do not agree with you are wrong.

 

[rudder]

Despite your scare tactics, I will still be able to get coverage through my employer even after Obama care. You make it sound like insurance regulations are something new.

This will be archived so we can come back and see who was wrong in 5 years.

This thread is not meant as a scare tactic. obamacare is adding a lot of consumer protections which will cost money. These are protections decided by the government, not by you or your employer. A grandfathered plan would not be subject to those new consumer protections. But if a insurance provider needs to amend their policy (inflation) or make some other change, they will lose that grandfathered status.

No insurance regulations are not new. These new regulations however.. will make your employer offered insurance extremely expensive. Enjoy obamacare.

Take for instance the pre-existing condition rule. This article explains it pretty well and saves me some typing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../11/05/AR2009110504327.html?wpisrc=newsletter

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

The only time Barry lies is when he speaks.

YOU LIE!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=078BGtKNL1o

 

[rudder]

Despite your scare tactics, I will still be able to get coverage through my employer even after Obama care. You make it sound like insurance regulations are something new.

One more question for you if you would please answer for me.... Do you know why the AARP is so gung-ho for obamacare?

I'll answer it for you. AARP is not really and advocacy group. They make a crap ton of money by selling supplemental insurance. Do they realize something we all do not?

http://www.aarphealthcare.com/

They stand to make a killing from obamacare because people will be flocking to them in droves to get supplemental insurance because obamacare will destroy our healthcare in this country.

 

[theeedude]

This will be archived so we can come back and see who was wrong in 5 years.

This thread is not meant as a scare tactic. obamacare is adding a lot of consumer protections which will cost money. These are protections decided by the government, not by you or your employer. A grandfathered plan would not be subject to those new consumer protections. But if a insurance provider needs to amend their policy (inflation) or make some other change, they will lose that grandfathered status.

No insurance regulations are not new. These new regulations however.. will make your employer offered insurance extremely expensive. Enjoy obamacare.

Take for instance the pre-existing condition rule. This article explains it pretty well and saves me some typing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../11/05/AR2009110504327.html?wpisrc=newsletter

My employer already covers everyone with preexisting conditions or not, so argument that healthy people are going to wait until they are sick to get coverage doesn't apply to my company plan, since everyone is covered.

 

[Pens1566]

My employer already covers everyone with preexisting conditions or not, so argument that healthy people are going to wait until they are sick to get coverage doesn't apply to my company plan, since everyone is covered.

Take your logic elsewhere ... this is P&N.

 

[Throckmorton]

RTFA (read the fucking article)

I am complaining because obama was full of shit. My healthcare bill will become a lot more expensive. I cannot keep my current health insurance plan because the bill is designed to prevent companies from keeping costs under control. My employer will have no choice but to offer a new plan subject to obamacare regulations (loss of grandfathered status and now with increased expenses).

Here read this ... educate yourself.

http://www.posey.house.gov/UploadedFiles/HealthCareReformDraftRegulations-June-2010.pdf

Then come back and have an intelligent discussion.

If you and your employer and your insurance company are happy with your current arrangement, why not let it be?

Because the insurance company will raise its rates? Oh wait I thought OBAMA was the one raising your rates!!

 

[Babbles]

Story on Marketplace.org (14-July-2010) right now about this.

 

[Pulsar]

Not that I agree with the new Health Care Bill, but it's not like things were sustainable had nothing been done.

In another 20 years we'd all be paying $50 co-pays, $5,000 Ind/$10,000 Family deductibles, and 30% after that with premiums about 50% higher. This new bill may be a catastrophe, but at least an attempt is being made at reform rather than shutting our eyes, plugging our ears, and saying everything is just fine the way it is.

You do understand that under this new health care bill, it's going to be MORE expensive that it otherwise would have been. Right? Even the government office that estimates the costs of bills like this one agrees with that statement.

So how does being even MORE expensive make this new "system" sustainable. I'm all ears.

 

[BurnItDwn]

He also said he would close Gitmo.. and bring our troops home.. and bring transparency to the government.. Liar? I don't think that word quite covers it.

Your post is off topic, so my reply will be as well.

He hasn't closed Guantanamo YET. But, he has sure tried to get it closed. There have been bumps in the process (aka "republicans"), but things appear to be moving forward

He is bringing troops home from Iraq, like he said he would do.


Now about that transparency .... you completely got me there ... he's way too authoritarian and secretive and generally full of shit for my liking.

 

[Pens1566]

You do understand that under this new health care bill, it's going to be MORE expensive that it otherwise would have been. Right? Even the government office that estimates the costs of bills like this one agrees with that statement.

So how does being even MORE expensive make this new "system" sustainable. I'm all ears.

Link to the CBO report stating this?

 

[nick1985]

Link to the CBO report stating this?

They may not have come out and said those words, but they have revised their estimated costs.


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37081.html

The CBO now estimates the costs to be over a trillion. IIRC it used to be 800 something billion. Basically thinking it will reduce the deficit at the end of the day is laughable.

 

[Specop 007]

and as long as he keeps pissing you Republicans off he is a Messiah :thumbsup:

Thats what really scares me. Some people are so blindly partisan that they dont care WHAT damages are done, as long as it makes the "other side" angry.

Thats downright scary.

 

[rudder]

If you and your employer and your insurance company are happy with your current arrangement, why not let it be?

Because the insurance company will raise its rates? Oh wait I thought OBAMA was the one raising your rates!!

Yes they raise their rates because of inflation, costs incurred by smokers, diabetics, etc. This has always been and is what it is. obamacare will increase rates beyond that with a crap load of forced mandates. A grandfathered insurance provider will likely have to give up that status or simply go bankrupt. They cannot simply let it be. Premiums will go up above and beyond the typical cost increases.... with obamacare just sitting there stinking like shit and not doing a damn thing to reign in costs. Sorry if your obamarosecolored glasses are so thick that you cannot see this.

 

[theeedude]

Yes they raise their rates because of inflation, costs incurred by smokers, diabetics, etc. This has always been and is what it is. obamacare will increase rates beyond that with a crap load of forced mandates. A grandfathered insurance provider will likely have to give up that status or simply go bankrupt. They cannot simply let it be. Premiums will go up above and beyond the typical cost increases.... with obamacare just sitting there stinking like shit and not doing a damn thing to reign in costs. Sorry if your obamarosecolored glasses are so thick that you cannot see this.

You have no proof for your predictions, Nostradamus.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Thats what really scares me. Some people are so blindly partisan that they dont care WHAT damages are done, as long as it makes the "other side" angry.

Thats downright scary.

definitely a sign of bad mental health.

 

[rudder]

You have no proof for your predictions, Nostradamus.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbo-...e-presidential-health-care-argument-2010-6/-1

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/06/02...es-a-costly-drop-in-employer-health-coverage/

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/28/bernanke-savings-from-obamacare-are-uncertain/

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_oact_memorandum_on_financial_impact_of_ppaca_as_enacted.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/b...rss&adxnnlx=1275584427-VFNZU2yMCbg252BYAePVjQ

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...eflect_the_true_cost_of_obamacare_104913.html

http://www.nationalcenter.org/PR-ObamaCare_102309.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574314622075560890.html

No, I am not Nostradamus and do not claim to have a vision of the future. What I can see is spiraling national debt, future Federal liabilities (social security, pensions, medicare, obamacare, debt service payments) all which mean less money for the feds to spend. In order to keep current service levels the only option by the Feds would be to increase healthcare premiums. Which we will all be on after the private healthcare insurance industry is destroyed. I can also see that the numbers used to justify obamacare are worthless and wrong.

Just ask the people in Massachusetts. Just ask us here in Tennessee. Tennessee started a UHC plan. Projections were way off. It would have consumed 1/3rd of the states budget and grown had the program not been scaled back.

As I said.. this thread will be archived. If I am wrong and we are all still around hanging out on P&N in 5 years, I will apologize for being wrong (although if the government get sensible and repeals this crap... then technically I would not be wrong about these predictions).

 

[CycloWizard]

Unfortunately, that is what our society has become. Go with what you feel and believe is right, regardless of the consequences and evidence that could change that point of view.

We thrive on "us vs them", and not raised to look at both sides objectively while remaining open to new ideas that are different than the current options. If you're not with me, and my ideas then you are against me. There is no middle ground. There is no take the best ideas from all options. There is no bring all of your ideas to the table, where every idea will at least be discussed. Humanity is wired (or our cultures have developed) to look at things as only 2, and some rare cases 3, sided then the side(s) that do not agree with you are wrong.

I think objectivity is what caused him to abandon this thread. My "knee-jerk reaction" was actually a hypothesis which was objectively testable. I tested it by asking him whether or not he had read the bill. He responded by falling off the face of the earth. Thus, my "knee-jerk reaction" appears to have been an objectively true statement. The real problem is the conflation of fact and opinion: his opinion was that the facts aren't in on the bill, so it was impossible to conclude anything about its "goodness." However, the facts are in on the bill.

 

[theeedude]

http://www.businessinsider.com/cbo-...e-presidential-health-care-argument-2010-6/-1

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/06/02...es-a-costly-drop-in-employer-health-coverage/

http://dailycaller.com/2010/04/28/bernanke-savings-from-obamacare-are-uncertain/

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_oact_memorandum_on_financial_impact_of_ppaca_as_enacted.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/b...rss&adxnnlx=1275584427-VFNZU2yMCbg252BYAePVjQ

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...eflect_the_true_cost_of_obamacare_104913.html

http://www.nationalcenter.org/PR-ObamaCare_102309.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203609204574314622075560890.html

No, I am not Nostradamus and do not claim to have a vision of the future. What I can see is spiraling national debt, future Federal liabilities (social security, pensions, medicare, obamacare, debt service payments) all which mean less money for the feds to spend. In order to keep current service levels the only option by the Feds would be to increase healthcare premiums. Which we will all be on after the private healthcare insurance industry is destroyed. I can also see that the numbers used to justify obamacare are worthless and wrong.

Just ask the people in Massachusetts. Just ask us here in Tennessee. Tennessee started a UHC plan. Projections were way off. It would have consumed 1/3rd of the states budget and grown had the program not been scaled back.

As I said.. this thread will be archived. If I am wrong and we are all still around hanging out on P&N in 5 years, I will apologize for being wrong (although if the government get sensible and repeals this crap... then technically I would not be wrong about these predictions).

More dire predictions, but no proof that my coverage will be impacted any more so than it would without Obama Care. Just proof there is an echo chamber out there for your fellow Nostradami.

 

[rudder]

More dire predictions, but no proof that my coverage will be impacted any more so than it would without Obama Care. Just proof there is an echo chamber out there for your fellow Nostradami.

Ignorance is indeed bliss. Lets freeze any further discussion for 5 years. Then we can come back to this thread. No point in arguing... what's done is done (hopefully to be repealed).

 

[theeedude]

Ignorance is indeed bliss. Lets freeze any further discussion for 5 years. Then we can come back to this thread. No point in arguing... what's done is done (hopefully to be repealed).

Something tells me you aren't really going to freeze bashing Obama-care for 5 years. Maybe just being Nostradamus myself.