YAGunT: .223/5.56 bullet tumbling vs fragmentation

[JEDI]

When a .223/5.56 (ie: M193) hits a human target, it should either fragment if the bullet enters the body above a certain velocity or tumbles tip over tail if it's below a certain velocity.

At about what range (ie: 100meters?) will the bullet be in tumble mode? (tumble sounds much more damage producing)

 

[olds]

Tumbles. If you shoot them in the ear, it comes out the little toe. That's why I always aim for the ear.

 

[shortylickens]

Its not the range so much as the bullet itself. Jacketed hollow point is much more likely to fragment than full metal jacket, regardless of range.

Though there might be a slight difference at different ranges, but personally I would not rely on it. I'd choose ammo for the job at hand.

 

[Paladin3]

I can't imagine any bullet would get more lethal as it travels farther and loses velocity and energy. I think the whole concept of a low-energy "tumbling" bullet being extra deadly is a wacky myth.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Bullets shouldn't tumble. M193 and M855 are designed to fragment. If they don't fragment, you're just putting .22cal holes in things.

2700 feet per second is the velocity needed to fragment. About 150 yards with M193 and a 16" barrel.

 

[boomhower]

Bullets shouldn't tumble. M193 and M855 are designed to fragment. If they don't fragment, you're just putting .22cal holes in things.

2700 feet per second is the velocity needed to fragment. About 150 yards with M193 and a 16" barrel.

Some should tumble. Some are designed to tumble. The Russians imparticular were partial to that design. But the 5.56 is designed to fragment.

 

[shortylickens]

Bullets shouldn't tumble. M193 and M855 are designed to fragment. If they don't fragment, you're just putting .22cal holes in things.

Actually, with the speed its hitting and the much longer body, it makes a heck of a lot bigger hole in flesh.
Though in wood or dirt it looks about the same.

 

[JEDI]

Bullets shouldn't tumble. M193 and M855 are designed to fragment. If they don't fragment, you're just putting .22cal holes in things.

2700 feet per second is the velocity needed to fragment. About 150 yards with M193 and a 16" barrel.

frag starting at 150yards?!

so if the enemy is 50feet, the .223 is going straight thru him? no tumbling??
ie: a tiny .22 hole that he probably wont even feel cause of the adrenaline?

 

[EagleKeeper]

frag starting at 150yards?!

so if the enemy is 50feet, the .223 is going straight thru him? no tumbling??
ie: a tiny .22 hole that he probably wont even feel cause of the adrenaline?

Certain places when hit will cause him to feel the shot. At 50' it will be luck vs skill

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

frag starting at 150yards?!

so if the enemy is 50feet, the .223 is going straight thru him? no tumbling??
ie: a tiny .22 hole that he probably wont even feel cause of the adrenaline?

Sorry, 2700fps is the threshold, anything lower than that and it'll just be a hole. Max range for fragmentation would be 150 yards.

Some should tumble. Some are designed to tumble. The Russians imparticular were partial to that design. But the 5.56 is designed to fragment.

Link?

Actually, with the speed its hitting and the much longer body, it makes a heck of a lot bigger hole in flesh.
Though in wood or dirt it looks about the same.

Without expansion or fragmentation, you may get some slight tearing. It's no different than shoving a .22cal stick through you.

 

[shortylickens]

Sorry, 2700fps is the threshold, anything lower than that and it'll just be a hole. Max range for fragmentation would be 150 yards.



Link?



Without expansion or fragmentation, you may get some slight tearing. It's no different than shoving a .22cal stick through you.

WRONG!!

That is so dumb I may have to peepee internet slap you.

 

[jpeyton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tku8YI68-JA#t=361s

 

[CoachB]

Tumbling Bad! The lands and grooves in the gun barrel are designed to impart spin on the bullet specifically to eliminate tumbling. Maximim damage is created by the bullet either thru mushrooming or fragmenting.
A tumbling bullet is very inaccurate...worse than mini-ball ammno and smooth bore guns. I've seen bullets miss a 2 foot square at 100 yds.

 

[JEDI]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tku8YI68-JA#t=361s

so at short range (before it reaches frag velocity), the .223 DOES tumble.
ie: at 9min mark where the cop accidently shoots himself in the knee w/his ar-15 and the bullet exits at his calf.

now does it tumble after it reaches frag velocity then reduces in speed (ie: 150yards)?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Tumbling Bad! The lands and grooves in the gun barrel are designed to impart spin on the bullet specifically to eliminate tumbling. Maximim damage is created by the bullet either thru mushrooming or fragmenting.
A tumbling bullet is very inaccurate...worse than mini-ball ammno and smooth bore guns. I've seen bullets miss a 2 foot square at 100 yds.

You clearly don't understand how the round works. It tumbles when it hits a fleshy target.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

so at short range (before it reaches frag velocity), the .223 DOES tumble.
ie: at 9min mark where the cop accidently shoots himself in the knee w/his ar-15 and the bullet exits at his calf.

now does it tumble after it reaches frag velocity then reduces in speed (ie: 150yards)?

It reaches fragmentation velocity while it's in the barrel, it doesn't "build" up to it. The round penetrates the body, cavitates and destroys itself, fragmenting. Don't get hung up tumble, what's happening is near instantaneous. The fracture he's showing is a result of the bullet fragmenting, he even says right after without fragmentation it will look like an ice pick stabbing.

Nope. Imagine it being like a football. Exits the barrel at 3,xxxfps, around 150 yards it is slowed to 2700fps. Speed continues to drop off until it impacts whatever.

If a bullet is tumbling, or "key-holing" you have some real barrel problems.

 

[RampantAndroid]

It reaches fragmentation velocity while it's in the barrel, it doesn't "build" up to it. The round penetrates the body, cavitates and destroys itself, fragmenting. Don't get hung up tumble, what's happening is near instantaneous. The fracture he's showing is a result of the bullet fragmenting, he even says right after without fragmentation it will look like an ice pick stabbing.

Nope. Imagine it being like a football. Exits the barrel at 3,xxxfps, around 150 yards it is slowed to 2700fps. Speed continues to drop off until it impacts whatever.

If a bullet is tumbling, or "key-holing" you have some real barrel problems.

you mean tumbling while in air - yes. It should go into a tumble while in the target, causing it to fragment ideally.

 

[schneiderguy]

When a .223/5.56 (ie: M193) hits a human target, it should either fragment if the bullet enters the body above a certain velocity or tumbles tip over tail if it's below a certain velocity.

At about what range (ie: 100meters?) will the bullet be in tumble mode? (tumble sounds much more damage producing)

M193 fragmentation is caused by it tumbling. It breaks at the canellure while going sideways. At below a certain velocity (2700fps or something like that) it will still tumble but isn't going fast enough to fragment.

Fragmentation is better than just tumbling (see 5.56x45mm M193/M855 vs 5.45x39 7n6).

 

[LTC8K6]

It tumbles inside the target, not on the way to it...

 

[schneiderguy]

Bullets shouldn't tumble. M193 and M855 are designed to fragment. If they don't fragment, you're just putting .22cal holes in things.

2700 feet per second is the velocity needed to fragment. About 150 yards with M193 and a 16" barrel.

Most/all spitzer shaped bullets will tumble in human flesh whether they were "designed" to or not. The base is heavier than the tip so it naturally flips around as it passes through.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Most/all spitzer shaped bullets will tumble in human flesh whether they were "designed" to or not. The base is heavier than the tip so it naturally flips around as it passes through.

That's yawing.

 

[OverVolt]

In other news, 5.56x45mm is not the only rifle cartridge in existence. I wonder how 5.45x39mm performs since its not too popular here, but I see it online sometimes. I kinda wonder if the extra powder is wasted, since 5.56x45mm is near maximum velocity for a bullet, about 3100fps.

 

[schneiderguy]

That's yawing.

Same thing.

 

[shortylickens]

In other news, 5.56x45mm is not the only rifle cartridge in existence. I wonder how 5.45x39mm performs since its not too popular here, but I see it online sometimes. I kinda wonder if the extra powder is wasted, since 5.56x45mm is near maximum velocity for a bullet, about 3100fps.

People can get bulk 5.56 from gun shows or online retailers dirt cheap by the thousands. Thats probably the only reason its still popular cuz we have far superior varmint rounds available to us nowadays.

 

[boomhower]

Link?

It's the 5.45x39. Here's a pic of the typical wound cavity: