YAGT

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow
Where is the "they're both inpractical except in very limited applications" option?

Don't spoil the kid's ignorant fun!

I'm not a kid but you spoiled my ignorant fun anyway Why is it that guys who don't know guns are considered kids? Not everyone grew up in the ghetto...

It's not because he doesn't know about guns. It's because he plays a game or two and/or hears people talking about these "big, cool" guns like the D.E. & the .50 S&W, so he talks exclusively about them so he can display his limited knowledge, while pretending to know a lot about firearms.

I'm not a expert on or collector of firearms, but I've had some experience with them and as part of my job I will have much more. I don't pretend that I know a lot about them, but if you hand me a conventional firearm (handgun, revolver, shotgun, rifle) I'll know how to work it. That said, I can tell when someone is BSing their "knowledge" because they think a certain gun is cool, without really knowing anything about it.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

I promise you a 9mm between the eyes is every bit as lethal as a .50 cal between the eyes.
People get this "bigger is better" attitude going... it's just not true.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So, what on earth would you need either one of these hand cannons for?

I own a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with an 8" barrel. It is waaay more accurate than a DE .50 even if you are a better shot. I could probably put more shots into the center ring with my .44 than most could with a DE .50.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Comparing a subgun to an assault rifle is like comparing a BMW Z4 to a Dodge Viper.

 

[Danman]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

I still think it depends on who is shooting the guns, that's what it comes down to.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So, the .50 is winning with the 'Counterstrike, I've never fired a gun crowd' and the 'they're both impractical' is winning with the people who actually own/have fired a handgun crowd. Big surprise there.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Comparing a subgun to an assault rifle is like comparing a BMW Z4 to a Dodge Viper.

I'm not a car guy either, so I don't know what the BMW's specs are.

They hit him with a beanbag round from a Remington 870 in the leg, which didn't put him down, so they shot him in the shoulder with the MP5. He fell back, but when he looked at his shoulder as the Officers were cuffing him he said "hey, you guys shot me with real bullets?" Apparently it didn't hurt any more than the beanbag did! :Q

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
So, what on earth would you need either one of these hand cannons for?

I own a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with an 8" barrel. It is waaay more accurate than a DE .50 even if you are a better shot. I could probably put more shots into the center ring with my .44 than most could with a DE .50.

You don't even need a .44 mag. I'll admit the first time you handle and fire a Desert Eagle, you think "this is cool." It's not a gun, it's a force. It's like holding the wrath of God in your hand. Like 4 lbs of the wrath of God. Then you realize your arms are getting tired after you've fired 2 magazines. Then you realize that 2 magazines is $4 in bullets. Then you realize that this gun is $1100. Then you realize that this gun that's glamorized by Counter-Strike and the Matrix just isn't applicable to the real world. When you can jump the 60 foot gap to pursue Trinity, then maybe the weight of carrying a Desert Eagle all day wouldn't bother you.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Shot placement matters more than caliber.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Comparing a subgun to an assault rifle is like comparing a BMW Z4 to a Dodge Viper.

I'm not a car guy either, so I don't know what the BMW's specs are.

They hit him with a beanbag round from a Remington 870 in the leg, which didn't put him down, so they shot him in the shoulder with the MP5. He fell back, but when he looked at his shoulder as the Officers were cuffing him he said "hey, you guys shot me with real bullets?" Apparently it didn't hurt any more than the beanbag did! :Q

Sounds like it handled the situation. From what I've heard, when you're in a gunfight situation you can go without really feeling the pain because you're so pumped. Like in wars and stuff, you hear stories of guys going through battles, then at the end realizing they've been shot a couple times.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Shot placement matters more than caliber.

Exactly. And I'd much rather have 15 shots to place than 7.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow
Where is the "they're both inpractical except in very limited applications" option?

Don't spoil the kid's ignorant fun!

I'm not a kid but you spoiled my ignorant fun anyway Why is it that guys who don't know guns are considered kids? Not everyone grew up in the ghetto...

I grew up in one of the wealthiest communities in the country, and my dad had\has TONS of guns. Most guns aren't owned by criminals, they're owned by collectors and enthusiasts. Guns used to be and in some ways still are part of the aristocracy (a nice over under, for example). In modern day, they're a sign of masculinity. You see a guy getting out a Dodge Viper GTS wearing a shoulder holster with a Colt Gold Cup in it, you think damn, I wanna make out with him. So quit being an asshat just because you don't know anything about guns.

I grew up in the second wealthiest county in the country, and yet know jack about guns. Also, while I don't give a crap either way about what turns you on, I've never seen a guy I wanted to make out with under any circumstances

Originally posted by: bradruth
It's not because he doesn't know about guns. It's because he plays a game or two and/or hears people talking about these "big, cool" guns like the D.E. & the .50 S&W, so he talks exclusively about them so he can display his limited knowledge, while pretending to know a lot about firearms.

This I can agree with. While I'm a big fan of Lee Child's 'Jack Reacher' series (he prefers the Desert Eagle - good series btw, if you enjoy reading), I realize that I know jack about guns and I don't much chat about them, other than to agree that I know next to nothing, or that the p90 in Far Cry is very effective I certainly don't try to act like I know what I'm talking about.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Comparing a subgun to an assault rifle is like comparing a BMW Z4 to a Dodge Viper.

I'm not a car guy either, so I don't know what the BMW's specs are.

They hit him with a beanbag round from a Remington 870 in the leg, which didn't put him down, so they shot him in the shoulder with the MP5. He fell back, but when he looked at his shoulder as the Officers were cuffing him he said "hey, you guys shot me with real bullets?" Apparently it didn't hurt any more than the beanbag did! :Q

Sounds like it handled the situation. From what I've heard, when you're in a gunfight situation you can go without really feeling the pain because you're so pumped. Like in wars and stuff, you hear stories of guys going through battles, then at the end realizing they've been shot a couple times.

Yeah, my firearms instructer (a SWAT team member) said the MP5 didn't sound like a real gun and he thought they used another beanbag round. We had a whole thing on "gunfight physiology."

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
So, what on earth would you need either one of these hand cannons for?

I own a Smith and Wesson .44 Magnum with an 8" barrel. It is waaay more accurate than a DE .50 even if you are a better shot. I could probably put more shots into the center ring with my .44 than most could with a DE .50.

You don't even need a .44 mag. I'll admit the first time you handle and fire a Desert Eagle, you think "this is cool." It's not a gun, it's a force. It's like holding the wrath of God in your hand. Like 4 lbs of the wrath of God. Then you realize your arms are getting tired after you've fired 2 magazines. Then you realize that 2 magazines is $4 in bullets. Then you realize that this gun is $1100. Then you realize that this gun that's glamorized by Counter-Strike and the Matrix just isn't applicable to the real world. When you can jump the 60 foot gap to pursue Trinity, then maybe the weight of carrying a Desert Eagle all day wouldn't bother you.

I've fired a DE .44 Magnum. It was pretty mild actually. Other than ejecting the spent shells back at your forehead it was a pleasant gun to shoot but it is big and heavy.

My S&W .44 isn't as heavy and it has a longer barrel so it's more accurate. I bought it because I like the .44 and I've always wanted one. I also have a lever action rifle chambered in .44 magnum so I can use the ammo in either or both guns. The .44 Mag is the most accurate handgun I've owned.

I fired short barrel light weight S&W .44 mag revolvers and larger ones before I decided to get the 8" model I have now. I've also fired a 10" Smith in .44 mag but that was a little too heavy for me.

I've owned plenty of guns that I found weren't suited to my needs/wants. The S&W .44 Mag I have now is not one of those guns. It's a keeper.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Ehhh, the 5.56mm isnt much of a knockdown king, either. Especially out of the shorter barrel of an M4.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

I promise you a 9mm between the eyes is every bit as lethal as a .50 cal between the eyes.
People get this "bigger is better" attitude going... it's just not true.

A head shot is nice, but not always practical. The default shot is for center mass. And the 9mm doesnt perform very well at that compared to other options out there.

Bigger is better in the one category that matters more than any other: terminal ballistics. A bigger wound cavity is better. Of course, this does need to be tempered with other considerations of recoil, weight, size, magazine capacity, etc.

 

[Teliasen]

Wow, I wasn't expecting this many replies.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Ehhh, the 5.56mm isnt much of a knockdown king, either. Especially out of the shorter barrel of an M4.

If I were SWAT, I would definitely prefer an M4 to an MP5 for just about all situations. Do you know how pissed I would be if I opened up on someone with an MP5 and they didn't go down because they had on body armor? That could very easily be the end of your life. Remember that bank robbery in LA (or was it Miami?) The police shot the sh!t out of those guys, but their pistols couldn't scratch them... That would be a bad spot to be in.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

I promise you a 9mm between the eyes is every bit as lethal as a .50 cal between the eyes.
People get this "bigger is better" attitude going... it's just not true.

A head shot is nice, but not always practical. The default shot is for center mass. And the 9mm doesnt perform very well at that compared to other options out there.

Bigger is better in the one category that matters more than any other: terminal ballistics. A bigger wound cavity is better. Of course, this does need to be tempered with other considerations of recoil, weight, size, magazine capacity, etc.

When it comes to it, a wonder 9 offers you more stopping power per oz of gun you're carrying (for concealed carry.) I'm not gonna run up the numbers but I'm pretty sure that 15, or in my case, 14 rounds of 9mm pack more punch than 7 or 8 rounds of .50 AE. Couple in accuracy in a gunfight, and the 9mm is just far far more practical. I would agree that the .45 ACP strikes a happy medium though.

 

[waggy]

the bank robbery was in hollywood i think. they had body armor and high powerd guns.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: Nebor
A Desert Eagle is ridiculous. There's no situation where I'd prefer a Desert Eagle to a wonder nine or 45. Except maybe hunting large game.

Otherwise, you have 7 shots, and I have 15. If you think a .50 cal will make a person any more dead than a 9mm will, good luck to ya.

The only time I would want a 9mm is when either it is chambered in 9x23mm, OR it has a 33 round magazine and is select fire

My department's SWAT team got to use their MP5s on a suspect a few months ago...needless to say we're getting a shipment of M4s in shortly.

Ehhh, the 5.56mm isnt much of a knockdown king, either. Especially out of the shorter barrel of an M4.

If I were SWAT, I would definitely prefer an M4 to an MP5 for just about all situations. Do you know how pissed I would be if I opened up on someone with an MP5 and they didn't go down because they had on body armor? That could very easily be the end of your life. Remember that bank robbery in LA (or was it Miami?) The police shot the sh!t out of those guys, but their pistols couldn't scratch them... That would be a bad spot to be in.

It was LA, and though it would indeed suck, that's not a situation anyone is even remotely likely to be in.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: waggy
the bank robbery was in hollywood i think. they had body armor and high powerd guns.

I think they had some kind of AK variants... That could have been media drama though.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: waggy
the bank robbery was in hollywood i think. they had body armor and high powerd guns.

I think they had some kind of AK variants... That could have been media drama though.

yeah it was something like that. There is real pictured taken of ending of it.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: waggy
the bank robbery was in hollywood i think. they had body armor and high powerd guns.

I think they had some kind of AK variants... That could have been media drama though.

yeah it was something like that. There is real pictured taken of ending of it.

But yeah, wouldn't you hate to be pinned behind a car, getting shot at, and when you do pop up, you know that you hit the guy because he stumbles back a foot or so, and starts shooting again?