Just thought I'd add personal experience.
My g/f's mom is super religious and she works at the church. Her dad is not religious at all and it works just fine. Instead he volunteers to drive the shuttle on sunday and makes money while we're all at church. If you don't believe you can still attend on holidays because you love her wife and it obviously means alot to her (like my g/f's dad) and maybe you can work at the church so you're involved in your kids'lives. Honestly they will probably go because it's a huge social function for kids even if they don't believe.
If you don't believe because you're lazy and want to sleep in on sundays and going every sunday is too much "work"for you then you're doomed cause she'll go and you'll need to be up at church sometimes to watch the kids etc.
My g/f's mom is super religious and she works at the church. Her dad is not religious at all and it works just fine. Instead he volunteers to drive the shuttle on sunday and makes money while we're all at church. If you don't believe you can still attend on holidays because you love her wife and it obviously means alot to her (like my g/f's dad) and maybe you can work at the church so you're involved in your kids'lives. Honestly they will probably go because it's a huge social function for kids even if they don't believe.
If you don't believe because you're lazy and want to sleep in on sundays and going every sunday is too much "work"for you then you're doomed cause she'll go and you'll need to be up at church sometimes to watch the kids etc.
I don't see your age being a problem, but even with the best of intentions and commitment, marriage across faiths is hard. I won't sugar coat it for you. It's possible, but it takes work. Especially when it comes to children. Typically parents want to be on a unified front when it comes to handling children and that's hard to do when you're not unified.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible, because it isn't. But I am saying it's difficult. I've got several family members who have tried it. Many have lost the fight, but some have survived. My parents lost that fight, paritially due to religion, and partially to my father's inability to keep his penis in his pants where it belonged. That's another story though.
If you love each other enough, you can make it. But life will be very difficult at times, so if you're not willing to put the work in for your entire life, I wouldn't do it.
Again, I'm not saying it's impossible, because it isn't. But I am saying it's difficult. I've got several family members who have tried it. Many have lost the fight, but some have survived. My parents lost that fight, paritially due to religion, and partially to my father's inability to keep his penis in his pants where it belonged. That's another story though.
If you love each other enough, you can make it. But life will be very difficult at times, so if you're not willing to put the work in for your entire life, I wouldn't do it.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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My background: me strong athiest, her semi-religious Catholic. I had a high-school sweetheart, dated her for 5 years, married her, 6 years later she cheated repeatedly, now divorced. Not once in our 11 years was religion an issue.
Of course, since I'm divorced, that might disqualify my comments. But I swear that religion was never a problem. When she asked me to go to church, I went. Not because I believed in religion, but because I supported her and her beliefs.
You did hit the nail on the head though, "people change over time". For 9 years of our relationship I was adamant that we were the perfect couple, that our marriage would last forever, and that we weren't too young. The last two years changed all of that. She changed, she changed a lot. She changed so much that she no longer needed/wanted me in her life. So she basically refused to spend a minute of time with me to pursue her various boyfriends in the last 2 years of our marriage. I eventually caved and filed for divorce.
I urge you to wait for marriage. Not on religious reasons, but because the two of you haven't stopped changing yet. Give yourself a couple more years. Yes, I thought 5 years of dating was an eternity and couldn't wait for marriage. But I really wish I never got married. If by the time you are ~25 and you are still in a good relationship with her, then marry her. But let the big changes happen while you are still single and relationships are far easier to end.
Of course, since I'm divorced, that might disqualify my comments. But I swear that religion was never a problem. When she asked me to go to church, I went. Not because I believed in religion, but because I supported her and her beliefs.
You did hit the nail on the head though, "people change over time". For 9 years of our relationship I was adamant that we were the perfect couple, that our marriage would last forever, and that we weren't too young. The last two years changed all of that. She changed, she changed a lot. She changed so much that she no longer needed/wanted me in her life. So she basically refused to spend a minute of time with me to pursue her various boyfriends in the last 2 years of our marriage. I eventually caved and filed for divorce.
I urge you to wait for marriage. Not on religious reasons, but because the two of you haven't stopped changing yet. Give yourself a couple more years. Yes, I thought 5 years of dating was an eternity and couldn't wait for marriage. But I really wish I never got married. If by the time you are ~25 and you are still in a good relationship with her, then marry her. But let the big changes happen while you are still single and relationships are far easier to end.
Well, change is inevitable in a relationship... it is how the two of you deal with that change. Some people accept change and work together... they grow together. Others fight it, and don't accept, nor are they willing to work together... hence the divorces you see now.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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Of course change is inevitable. And of course, that'll take work to keep you together during the various twists and turns that your lives' course will take. But the very big life altering changes typically occur in the 20-25 age group. If one person changes from being fully for marriage to totally against it during that time period, it is impossible for the other person to "grow together" and work with that other person. If one person changes in a way that she must not share any of her life with the other person (ie won't even speak to him), then he really can't "work together" with her.
I personally know one of the most extreme examples:
The husband is a devout Christian, so much so that he just graduated from seminary and is starting a church. The wife is atheist. This would be a sticking point for a lot of couples, but it appears to be a non-issue with them. They're completely head over heels for each other, even after 11 years of marriage and three kids.
I guess it really depends on how much you *really* love the other person beyond the mushy-mushy gibberish of the first couple years.
I was in a similar situation, with my wife Christian and myself agnostic, and it did cause some sadness on her part that I didn't want to go to church, but she never gave me a hard time about it. After some deep experiences in the past year I've come around, though, and I'm the one going every Sunday (well, Saturday in our case, Spanish night church).
I'd also like to take this moment and apologize for canned religion and the filth it's spewing in our political system. I completely understand why so many people despise religion and faith when yahoos like Falwell, Robertson, and Phelps believe they represent Christianity.
The husband is a devout Christian, so much so that he just graduated from seminary and is starting a church. The wife is atheist. This would be a sticking point for a lot of couples, but it appears to be a non-issue with them. They're completely head over heels for each other, even after 11 years of marriage and three kids.
I guess it really depends on how much you *really* love the other person beyond the mushy-mushy gibberish of the first couple years.
I was in a similar situation, with my wife Christian and myself agnostic, and it did cause some sadness on her part that I didn't want to go to church, but she never gave me a hard time about it. After some deep experiences in the past year I've come around, though, and I'm the one going every Sunday (well, Saturday in our case, Spanish night church).
I'd also like to take this moment and apologize for canned religion and the filth it's spewing in our political system. I completely understand why so many people despise religion and faith when yahoos like Falwell, Robertson, and Phelps believe they represent Christianity.
I have to agree with Eeyore and Valkyrie. I am in your situation (hypothetical (with kids) and real (Xtrian - Agnostic/Atheist)) and it is a struggle at times. We have come to a common understanding that we will not discuss some aspects of religion or politics because they infringe on her beliefs too much which invokes emotions that add lots of heat to the "discussion".
Marriage is something that is a constant struggle. It is very worthwhile "work", but don't think that it will be easy.
My wife has told me that she kinda wishes that she knew more about my beliefs before we got married at times. I think that is kinda silly cause, like you, my beliefs have "evolved" over our years of marriage. She does, at times, blame me for her lack of involvement in church as well. Once again, I think that is kinda silly cause I have always encouraged her to go and express her faith and to grow spiritually.
As for the kids, she is a very open person to informing the older kids (8 and 9) about other beliefs but still would prefer them to attend church. I am grateful for the first part of that and have told her that I will be happy to watch the younger kids while she takes the older ones with her. She feels that they need that foundation so that the can grow to be morally strong. I think that it is kinda an indoctrination but can definately see the benefits to the Pavlovian rewards of being good.
We, and our kids, are all gifted and, because of this, are all pretty curious and always looking to expand on our knowledge base. I have all the confidence in the world that my wife will allow our kids to make their own decisions as to what they believe (although she might be disappointed if they choose to believe more in line with my beliefs) and I have all the confidence in the world that our children will do enough research and soul searching to make the decision that is right for them, as I have and will be very moral and upstanding teens and adults regardless.
As for the lying.....as someone else said....wait till you have children!!! Santa Claus anyone?
Marriage is something that is a constant struggle. It is very worthwhile "work", but don't think that it will be easy.
My wife has told me that she kinda wishes that she knew more about my beliefs before we got married at times. I think that is kinda silly cause, like you, my beliefs have "evolved" over our years of marriage. She does, at times, blame me for her lack of involvement in church as well. Once again, I think that is kinda silly cause I have always encouraged her to go and express her faith and to grow spiritually.
As for the kids, she is a very open person to informing the older kids (8 and 9) about other beliefs but still would prefer them to attend church. I am grateful for the first part of that and have told her that I will be happy to watch the younger kids while she takes the older ones with her. She feels that they need that foundation so that the can grow to be morally strong. I think that it is kinda an indoctrination but can definately see the benefits to the Pavlovian rewards of being good.
We, and our kids, are all gifted and, because of this, are all pretty curious and always looking to expand on our knowledge base. I have all the confidence in the world that my wife will allow our kids to make their own decisions as to what they believe (although she might be disappointed if they choose to believe more in line with my beliefs) and I have all the confidence in the world that our children will do enough research and soul searching to make the decision that is right for them, as I have and will be very moral and upstanding teens and adults regardless.
As for the lying.....as someone else said....wait till you have children!!! Santa Claus anyone?
A at your ages you are still growing yourselves and beleive it or not you still aren't the person you will ultimately be.
B the closer you are to your significant other in terms of intelligence, morals etc the happier and statistically longer your relationship will last.
B the closer you are to your significant other in terms of intelligence, morals etc the happier and statistically longer your relationship will last.
Kind hearted Christisan + Kind hearded Anything else = Success!
Change either side of the equation and you will have problems.
Change either side of the equation and you will have problems.
When I first met my wife (Catholic) she would attend church every Sunday, after a couple of years with me she stopped attended but still considers herself a religous person. We're a very good match, i'm not religous at all (Protestant by association) & the odd time some fights do happen when religion comes up, but w/o the odd fight marriage would be boring .
I'd say give it a go, I don't consider someone's religion a major issue of happiness, more importantly I see attributes such as comon interests/honesty/communication more important in the long term.
Age? I'm 34, wife is 29, married for 7 years.
.I'd say give it a go, I don't consider someone's religion a major issue of happiness, more importantly I see attributes such as comon interests/honesty/communication more important in the long term.
Age? I'm 34, wife is 29, married for 7 years.
My husband and I come from different cultures and religions, and it has never been a problem for us. When we have children we have decided to teach them both and let them choose what they want as they get older. We embrace each others differences and use that to become more cultured and diverse. So for us, our differences only enhance our marraige.
As RCN stated,
Its only a problem if you make it one............
As RCN stated,
Its only a problem if you make it one............
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
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True, but many times people in their teens don't even know what they want in a relationship or they rush right into a commitment with someone who is totally wrong for them thinking marriage will solve all their problems.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
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I don't think anyone here thinks that you can't get married young and have the relationship survive, just that it's less likely.
I believe that people should not marry under the age of 25. That is my opinion.
sounds to me like she is just trying to get out of the relationship at this point, and you're the one hanging on to it desperaetly
20/19? - you got a bad, bad time coming your way if you keep this up.
20/19? - you got a bad, bad time coming your way if you keep this up.
I think the thing that's missing here is respect. She's trying to place partial blame on you, for what she sees as "poor" religious behavior. My wife and I both come from a Christian upbringing, but neither of us attend church. Though I've taken a more laidback approach to the God issue, we've both discussed it and have come to the consensus that we should open the door to religious activities for our children. I think it's quite healthy to have the exposure to religion. I don't think that it should be the single motivating factor in your life, but my wife understands that and we both respect each others views.
Where we differ, is only in the sense that my wife doesn't try to place blame on me about what she does about her views on religion. I think you need to explain that too her, for the relationship to work.
Just for perspective we were married when I was 18, and she was 20. We have two children, and we celebrated our 6th anniversary last March.
I do believe that differing opinions on "hot button" issues can exist peacefully in the same household, but it requires both parties to be adults about the subjects, and respect the others views.
Where we differ, is only in the sense that my wife doesn't try to place blame on me about what she does about her views on religion. I think you need to explain that too her, for the relationship to work.
Just for perspective we were married when I was 18, and she was 20. We have two children, and we celebrated our 6th anniversary last March.
I do believe that differing opinions on "hot button" issues can exist peacefully in the same household, but it requires both parties to be adults about the subjects, and respect the others views.
If both are religious, yes (even different religions). One religious, one non - it will never work!
thank you kind people for your input...
to clear some things up...
1) we werent planning on getting married anytime soon (we decided to wait until at LEAST after college)
2) whoever was talking about tithe...i could see that being a problem...but then again it is a tax writeoff...so i dunno
3) those who said dont argue in front of the kids. So lets make an example...kids dont wana go to church, she is forcing them and looks to me to tell them they need to go...wtf do i do...make them go even though i dont care if they do?
4) she has never forced her beleifs on me and i have not forced mine on her
5) if it would be sooooo diffucult to make everything work...how do i know if it is worth it?
6) if i didnt go to church it wouldnt be because i am lazy...it would be because i consider it a waste of time...but if it was THAT important to her, i would go
7) whoever said the shuttle driver thing, that is an awesome idea...you 'go' but dont really go, and they pay you! HA!
8) we've never cheated on eachother...i don't really see that being a big factor because we have talked about it a lot...we are both pretty heavy on the one person relationship..then again, people change...i dont ever see myself cheating on an SO, because i dont like to hurt people...nor do i see her, but does she? :/ things we need to talk about more...
9) pppl who say change is enevitable, find a way to deal with it: how do i deal with her forcing her beleifs on the kids and she goes extreme because she thinks her babies are going to hell?
10) about lying...who the hell said i would tell kids santa was real in the first place? why feed them a bunch of bs when i could just tell them the presants are from me because i thought they were nice that year
toast: well then why does she always talk about marriage?
desy: A) agreed B) we are both pretty intelligent, morals are close if not the same
JS80: People change, minds change. I began to question my thoughts and beliefs and found they were illogical.
pclstyle: i don't think she wants to get out...i beleive it is more like both of us are desperately hanging on
woo...again, i appreciate everyone's input
to clear some things up...
1) we werent planning on getting married anytime soon (we decided to wait until at LEAST after college)
2) whoever was talking about tithe...i could see that being a problem...but then again it is a tax writeoff...so i dunno
3) those who said dont argue in front of the kids. So lets make an example...kids dont wana go to church, she is forcing them and looks to me to tell them they need to go...wtf do i do...make them go even though i dont care if they do?
4) she has never forced her beleifs on me and i have not forced mine on her
5) if it would be sooooo diffucult to make everything work...how do i know if it is worth it?
6) if i didnt go to church it wouldnt be because i am lazy...it would be because i consider it a waste of time...but if it was THAT important to her, i would go
7) whoever said the shuttle driver thing, that is an awesome idea...you 'go' but dont really go, and they pay you! HA!
8) we've never cheated on eachother...i don't really see that being a big factor because we have talked about it a lot...we are both pretty heavy on the one person relationship..then again, people change...i dont ever see myself cheating on an SO, because i dont like to hurt people...nor do i see her, but does she? :/ things we need to talk about more...
9) pppl who say change is enevitable, find a way to deal with it: how do i deal with her forcing her beleifs on the kids and she goes extreme because she thinks her babies are going to hell?
10) about lying...who the hell said i would tell kids santa was real in the first place? why feed them a bunch of bs when i could just tell them the presants are from me because i thought they were nice that year
toast: well then why does she always talk about marriage?
desy: A) agreed B) we are both pretty intelligent, morals are close if not the same
JS80: People change, minds change. I began to question my thoughts and beliefs and found they were illogical.
pclstyle: i don't think she wants to get out...i beleive it is more like both of us are desperately hanging on
woo...again, i appreciate everyone's input
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