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Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Just picked up an eotech exps3-0 for my Tavor. I don't need the NV, but the shop didn't have any more exps2-0 left so I just bought the 3-0 anyways. The exps absolute co-witnesses on the Tavor because the irons are about 1/4" higher than the std. Ar15 config. 1 9/16" roughly above the rail...

I tried a Burris mtac and vortex viper PST 1-4, vortex sparc, but I didn't like the tunnel effect of the scopes even at 1x although I was interested in their versatility. The vortex SPARC controls bothered me due to taking up too much space in my view. The eotech seemed to give me the most effortless sight picture while maintaining a clear and uncluttered "both eyes open" view.

What are you guys using for your cqb <200 yd optics?
 
shortylickens

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,080
136
BobfG9A.jpg
 
clamum

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
403
126
Tiamat said:
Just picked up an eotech exps3-0 for my Tavor. I don't need the NV, but the shop didn't have any more exps2-0 left so I just bought the 3-0 anyways. The exps absolute co-witnesses on the Tavor because the irons are about 1/4" higher than the std. Ar15 config. 1 9/16" roughly above the rail...

I tried a Burris mtac and vortex viper PST 1-4, vortex sparc, but I didn't like the tunnel effect of the scopes even at 1x although I was interested in their versatility. The vortex SPARC controls bothered me due to taking up too much space in my view. The eotech seemed to give me the most effortless sight picture while maintaining a clear and uncluttered "both eyes open" view.

What are you guys using for your cqb <200 yd optics?
Click to expand...
I have an EOTech 512 on my AR but that's it. I am thinking about putting it on my AK and getting something like a 1x-4x CQB scope calibrated for 5.56 (bullet drop and whatnot) for my AR instead though. I know Leatherwood makes one but I'm sure there's others (Burris maybe?).
 
Jeeebus

Jeeebus

Diamond Member
Aug 29, 2006
9,181
901
126
bit the bullet over the weekend on my first AR. Have been looking, and the deal was pretty decent.

prorailrifle.jpg
 
Kadarin

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
I sighted in my ACOG finally this past weekend. My groupings at 50yrd are a hell of a lot better than they were with the iron sights.

I suspect I need a slightly stronger prescription for my glasses, though :/
 
M

marvdmartian

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2002
5,442
27
91
Kadarin said:
I sighted in my ACOG finally this past weekend. My groupings at 50yrd are a hell of a lot better than they were with the iron sights.

I suspect I need a slightly stronger prescription for my glasses, though :/
Click to expand...

Yeah, we all get to that point in life, Kadarin. What's really fun is trying to find that sweet spot, on a no-line bifocal lens, for looking through the scope of a rifle, while still maintaining a good cheek weld. :rolleyes:
 
T

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
clamum said:
I have an EOTech 512 on my AR but that's it. I am thinking about putting it on my AK and getting something like a 1x-4x CQB scope calibrated for 5.56 (bullet drop and whatnot) for my AR instead though. I know Leatherwood makes one but I'm sure there's others (Burris maybe?).
Click to expand...

I've read about Nikon 223 series, leupold firedot, Burris, and vortex in the sub 500$ range. After seeing the Burris mtaq and vortex PST in person, I would encourage looking at some of them if possible. Their features will make or break them for your intended use and narrow the field quickly making your choice easier.

For me, I decided the illuminated reticle was a feature I wanted, so that cut the Nikon. I also wanted as close to 1x as possible, so that cut leupold. I then observed that the reticles of Burris and vortex were very different. A red dot like eotech seemed to be suited for ~90% cqb, 10% medium range plinking. The Burris seemed to be suited for ~75% cqb, 25% medium range plinking. The vortex seemed to be suited for ~40% cqb, 60% medium range plinking. This was based on speed of getting on target even with less than ideal cheek weld, brightness and level of detail of reticle, and magnification of the scopes. Certainly one can train to be proficient with any of these optics in most situations...
 
clamum

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,252
403
126
Tiamat said:
I've read about Nikon 223 series, leupold firedot, Burris, and vortex in the sub 500$ range. After seeing the Burris mtaq and vortex PST in person, I would encourage looking at some of them if possible. Their features will make or break them for your intended use and narrow the field quickly making your choice easier.

For me, I decided the illuminated reticle was a feature I wanted, so that cut the Nikon. I also wanted as close to 1x as possible, so that cut leupold. I then observed that the reticles of Burris and vortex were very different. A red dot like eotech seemed to be suited for ~90% cqb, 10% medium range plinking. The Burris seemed to be suited for ~75% cqb, 25% medium range plinking. The vortex seemed to be suited for ~40% cqb, 60% medium range plinking. This was based on speed of getting on target even with less than ideal cheek weld, brightness and level of detail of reticle, and magnification of the scopes. Certainly one can train to be proficient with any of these optics in most situations...
Click to expand...
Wow, great info, thanks! Yeah I read about the Burris MTAC and the review was quite good. I also would like an illuminated reticle. I might have to take a trip to Cabelas and see if they have them, and if so check them out in person.

Also, that PSA deal was fucking killer (says Out of Stock now)! I haven't seen a deal that good since I got my CMMG Bargain Bin rifle back in 2009 ($600 ftw). Interesting the rifle has a 16" barrel with a 1:7 twist though. Usually 16" is 1:9 but 1:7 would be better for heavy bullets.
 
Svnla

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
126
What do ya'll think about the Kel Tec Sub 2000 gun and similar ones? Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_SUB-2000

It is a carbin that can use hand gun bullets and magazines such as 9mm and .40. One can have a hand gun such as Glock/S&W/etc. along with this gun and don't have to buy other caliber bullets and magazines. Good? Bad? Ugly? Meh?

Are there any other manufacturers with similar guns? I am not really keen on Kel Tec because of quality concern.
 
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cmdrdredd

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Svnla said:
What do ya'll think about the Kel Tec Sub 2000 gun and similar ones? Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_SUB-2000

It is a carbin that can use hand gun bullets and magazines such as 9mm and .40. One can have a hand gun such as Glock/S&W/etc. along with this gun and don't have to buy other caliber bullets and magazines. Good? Bad? Ugly? Meh?

Are there any other manufacturers with similar guns? I am not really keen on Kel Tec because of quality concern.
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On paper it seems alright but I have heard of concerns with actual SD ammo not feeding reliably. I don't know if it was isolated to one brand or not though. Honestly if I was going to buy another rifle it would be using actual rifle ammo. Handgun calibers have a more limited powder charge.
 
adairusmc

adairusmc

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2006
7,095
78
91
Svnla said:
What do ya'll think about the Kel Tec Sub 2000 gun and similar ones? Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_SUB-2000

It is a carbin that can use hand gun bullets and magazines such as 9mm and .40. One can have a hand gun such as Glock/S&W/etc. along with this gun and don't have to buy other caliber bullets and magazines. Good? Bad? Ugly? Meh?

Are there any other manufacturers with similar guns? I am not really keen on Kel Tec because of quality concern.
Click to expand...

Beretta makes the Cx4 Storm, which is an awesome handgun caliber carbine. I have had one for years in 9mm, which uses beretta 92 mags, and it is a great little rifle. I have been able to hit 5gallon propane cans at 200 yards with it easily, though the 9mm doesnt have much energy to do anything but fall to the ground at that distance.

Picture of mine -

8477890612_1eb67677ce_b.jpg


I have mine setup to look like the Colonial marine carbine from Battlestar Galactica, with that aimpoint clone, and barrel shroud.

I have no experience with the Kel-tecs, but I have heard good things. If I remember right the take glock magazines, which is not a bad thing at all.
 
T

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Svnla said:
What do ya'll think about the Kel Tec Sub 2000 gun and similar ones? Link = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_SUB-2000

It is a carbin that can use hand gun bullets and magazines such as 9mm and .40. One can have a hand gun such as Glock/S&W/etc. along with this gun and don't have to buy other caliber bullets and magazines. Good? Bad? Ugly? Meh?

Are there any other manufacturers with similar guns? I am not really keen on Kel Tec because of quality concern.
Click to expand...

Kel-Tec has been a mental rollercoaster in terms of "to buy or not to buy" for me. I like the direction of their design. Their subgun, ksg bullpup shotgun, rfb bullpup .308 seem interesting to me for their particular use. I read mixed reviews on availability (which is slowly improving) and reliability (which there are complaints).

Buying kel-tec, in addition to these known observations, is probably going to be one of those things that relies heavily on your own subjective desire to have a particular weapon to fill a role. Kel-tec seems to successfully design nitch-filling weapons which might turn out to be the "best available" design for your particular use. Whether or not they are successful in their engineering is up in the air...

If .223/5.56 is "too much" for what you desire, and you want shared accessories with handguns (magazines, possibly suppressors), your options are very limited and the keltec sub2k rises quite high on that limited list of possible tools to fill that nitch.

Honestly, I have only seen the P3AT, PF9, and KSG in person. I haven't been able to track down any of their other offerings at all.

If I had extra money lying around, I could think of worse "impulse purchases" than a sub2K or KSG. At minimum, they seem like they could be "fun" at the ranges and there just aren't very many close competitors. For the KSG, there is the UTAS which has its own problems. For the sub2K, I think there is a hipoint 995, 4095, 4595 (in addition to bulker AR-style offerigns), but I don't think it can be set up for glock/S&W magazines...
 
boomhower

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
clamum said:
Wow, great info, thanks! Yeah I read about the Burris MTAC and the review was quite good. I also would like an illuminated reticle. I might have to take a trip to Cabelas and see if they have them, and if so check them out in person.

Also, that PSA deal was fucking killer (says Out of Stock now)! I haven't seen a deal that good since I got my CMMG Bargain Bin rifle back in 2009 ($600 ftw). Interesting the rifle has a 16" barrel with a 1:7 twist though. Usually 16" is 1:9 but 1:7 would be better for heavy bullets.
Click to expand...

Most are 1/7 these days.
 
O

onza

Diamond Member
Sep 21, 2000
8,937
0
0
reviews.ragingazn.com
I want a 9mm carbine.. Been thinking about going hi-point route or just something more expensive. Mostly just for plinking since I have around 1600rounds of 9mm. Purchased all before the frenzy.
 
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