YAGT: CA Gun Laws

[Mide]

So I live in Nevada where they let you do about anything concerning firearms. I may get a job in CA so thus I have begun researching the legalities of it all.

1) I got a XD9 9mm w/ 16 round mag
2) Converted Saiga 5.45 AK (pistol grip, 30rd mag, threaded barrel w/ muzzle brake)

One thing of note is that I do not want a castrated rifle. I'd rather have nothing in liu of an AK with a monstergrip, key mag release, and other lame features.

How to make it legal in Cali

1) Get a 10 round mag
2) Sell the Saiga and get a Russian SKS (Closest thing to an AK)

Questions:

1)Will steps 1 and 2 = legal?
2) Also what would happen if I were "caught" with a 16 round pistol mag?
3) Is a Barretta CX4 Storm 9mm considered "pistol grip" even though it is plasticy and not fully? If I got a 10 round mag? Would it be legal?
4) I read that you have to register your handgun after you move in state. What would happen if you didn't and you got "caught"?

I've already looked through calguns.net and I think I understand it, but if anyone could verify that'd be great.

 

[zinfamous]

you moving to Oaktown? you might need to keep that AK... :hmm:

anyway, I know jack about guns, but my buddy just picked up a Mossberg 500(?) with a pistol grip, and he's looking to get a handgun. I don't know how or if that translates to your AK, though.

I have a wee 22 revolver (+ magnum clip--if that sounds right)....and uh...I have yet to register it. Damn thing was given to me and I really couldn't do anything else with it, as it was something of an inheritance. I was actually in Chicago at the time, and I didn't register it there, either.
:\

 

[deadlyapp]

You still won't be able to use the AK unless you make it a fixed magazine.

For the AR platform you can do the "bullet button" conversion, but I'm not sure if there is an equivalent for the AK platform - although I'm sure there is.

Law in California - all weapons must have less than 10 round magazines, and "evil black rifles" have very heavy restrictions. AR's must have off list lowers, fixed magazines, and less than 10 round capacity.

I'm not sure what the rules are on receivers for AK though. A quick google search should net the answer for you.

Also - This isn't legal advice and I'm not a lawyer, but I've been told that as long as the magazines are disassembled, then you can consider them parts and they are legal. To be safe I'd just leave them with a friend or sell them off. YMMV.


1)Will steps 1 and 2 = legal?
Step 1 is legal, step 2, I'm not sure on the rules about SKS's, but it'd probably be fine
2) Also what would happen if I were "caught" with a 16 round pistol mag?
law on possessing a high capacity magazine is here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124709
3) Is a Barretta CX4 Storm 9mm considered "pistol grip" even though it is plasticy and not fully? If I got a 10 round mag? Would it be legal?
It does not appear that you can own any pistol caliber carbine in California if equipped with a pistol grip, even if the magazine is under 10 rounds. some good info here : http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=123
4) I read that you have to register your handgun after you move in state. What would happen if you didn't and you got "caught"?
Depends if you're going to be a resident of the state. If you aren't a resident of the state then there are certain rules you'll have to follow.
If you're not a resident : http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php
info on registering guns: http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_ca.htm
If you don't have it registered it's hard to tell. Some of the things i've read are that they will simply confiscate it and you have to go through a bunch of paperwork, but if something actually occurred, IE you shot someone who broke into your house, you're looking at 60-90 days for first offense, up to 3 years.

 

[duragezic]

Definitely going to have to get rid of the AK. Too many "evil" features for a fail state like CA. I'd get a Mini-14 or SKS.

I don't know how pistol registration is in CA, but even in upstate NY it's kind of a bitch. Like you need to live in the county for a number of months before you can get a ownership permit.

As for keeping "high capacity" magazines and such, I wouldn't do it. I guess the chance of them finding an unregistered pistol in your house is almost zero, but if you actually want to use the guns at a range I'd make sure their legal. The penalties may not be that bad but I wouldn't want those scumbums trying to make an example of you.

 

[deadlyapp]

This was a good thread to come up for me anyways, as I'm in Washington now and have been snatching up different things quite willy nilly without thinking about taking them back down to Cali with me. I'll probably leave my AK, but will convert my AR. All my handguns but one are high capacity, so I'll be modifying the magazines to make them legal.

 

[pontifex]

If you're into guns at all, why would you even think of moving to CA? You couldn't pay me enough to live there.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I have 4 17 round magazines for my Glock 17. Bought them all in California before the Clinton gun ban so I don't honestly see how yours could be identified as being illegal.

Being that I'm in the job market though I'd have to agree with the idiots recommending you don't move here. You'd hate it here...there's no snow, no bugs, great weather year round, lots of cool things to do...but you cannot legally carry a gun.

 

[Paladin3]

You'd hate it here...there's no snow, no bugs, great weather year round, lots of cool things to do...but you cannot legally carry a gun.

There is a lot of good in CA, but stop talking like it's some Utopia or people who've actually lived there will start to giggle.

 

[Mide]

Thanks deadlyapp, I had some of those sites bookmarked...just needing to see if I read'em correctly. Yeah pontifex it's all about the job. If the decision was all mine and not myself and my family's well being, I'd most likely stay put but a paying job is something to consider.

Yeah I'm probably not the first to say that CA gun laws are total ass. It creates an unnecessary hassle that law-abiding American get to suffer for. Anyways thanks for the input all.

 

[JulesMaximus]

There is a lot of good in CA, but stop talking like it's some Utopia or people who've actually lived there will start to giggle.

I've lived here for 20 years of my adult life and you won't find anyone more willing to laugh at all the stupid shit that goes on in this state or make fun of certain areas but you'll also not find anyone more willing to defend this state either. Frankly, I'd rather kill myself than move somewhere like Pennsylvania...or middle amerika or the south or, god forbid, texas.

 

[deadlyapp]

Thanks deadlyapp, I had some of those sites bookmarked...just needing to see if I read'em correctly. Yeah pontifex it's all about the job. If the decision was all mine and not myself and my family's well being, I'd most likely stay put but a paying job is something to consider.

Yeah I'm probably not the first to say that CA gun laws are total ass. It creates an unnecessary hassle that law-abiding American get to suffer for. Anyways thanks for the input all.

Here is a great flowchart for the AK if you haven't seen it yet:
http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2...lt-weapon-identification-flowchart-again.aspx

I think I'll be converting my AR to a 10 rd fixed mag - which costs about 50 bucks for a kit. The AK I'll be putting a monsterman grip on, which costs about 50 bucks but they are hard to find. If you want one let me know, because the only place I've found it for sale requires a $100 minimum purchase and charges a fixed $20 for shipping.

If you put a monsterman on the AK you don't need a fixed mag, but you can't have a flash hider or vertical foregrip on it, or a folding stock.

I'm so not looking forward to moving back to Cali now. FML.

@ Jules. If the magazine was purchased pre-ban, as long as they were "registered" or whatever, they are legal AFAIK. If purchased post ban, they are illegal unless you are LEO.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Here is a great flowchart for the AK if you haven't seen it yet:
http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2...lt-weapon-identification-flowchart-again.aspx

I think I'll be converting my AR to a 10 rd fixed mag - which costs about 50 bucks for a kit. The AK I'll be putting a monsterman grip on, which costs about 50 bucks but they are hard to find. If you want one let me know, because the only place I've found it for sale requires a $100 minimum purchase and charges a fixed $20 for shipping.

If you put a monsterman on the AK you don't need a fixed mag, but you can't have a flash hider or vertical foregrip on it, or a folding stock.

I'm so not looking forward to moving back to Cali now. FML.

@ Jules. If the magazine was purchased pre-ban, as long as they were "registered" or whatever, they are legal AFAIK. If purchased post ban, they are illegal unless you are LEO.

Ask me to prove they are pre-ban and I honestly have no idea how to do that...but they were purchased in 1994 before the ban took effect. The only marking on them is on the bottom and it says Glock 3206.

According to this site:

California law prohibits any person from manufacturing, importing into the state, keeping for sale, offering or exposing for sale, giving, or lending any large capacity magazine. Cal. Penal Code § 12020(a)(2), (b). A "large capacity magazine" is defined as any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than ten rounds, but does not include any .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device, any feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than ten rounds, or any tubular magazine that is contained in a leveraction firearm. Section 12020(c)(25). California does not ban the possession of large capacity magazines.

So, if you possess large capacity magazines, the state of California will not prosecute you for possessing them, you just cannot legally buy them or transfer them.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I found this on calguns.net.

Note that it is not prohibited to

* own a large-capacity magazine
* possess a large-capacity magazine
* use a large-capacity magazine, in whatever gun*
* repair a legally possessed large-capacity magazine
(and, necessarily, to acquire the parts to make the repair --
remember it only makes sense to buy parts kits for existing
legally-possessed large-capacity magazines)

(* Old magazine, new-ish magazine, old gun, new gun - all irrelevant; remember also the 10-round limit on fixed magazine OLL, a different law.)

To repeat: Possession/use of a large-capacity magazine by an individual is not a crime, no matter how you acquired it.

Large-capacity magazines manufactured during the now-defunct Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device ban of 1994-2004 were marked 'Law Enforcement Only'. There are reasons one might legally have possessed them in California before 2000, but it is also legal to have the magazine bodies as repair parts for your other magazines.

There are exceptions in 12020(b), (b)(19)-(32) notably
Quote:
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
possessed in the state.
(b)(19) exempts LE agencies
(b)(20) exempts LEOs
(b)(21) exempts CA-licensed FFLs
(b)(22) exempts loans so long as the lender stays nearby
(b)(27), (b)(28) and (b)(29) exempt "entities that operate armored vehicle businesses" who buy large-capacity magazines, lend them to their employees or receive them back

There is NO EXCEPTION for non-LEO visitors to the state.

Proof of a crime, however, is likely going to be difficult.

* Magazines are not usually serialized or dated
* Before 2000, no one would have anticipated this law, so there was no reason to retain receipts for magazine purchases
* Not all guns in California are registered or otherwise known to the California Department of Justice, so the corresponding knowledge of likely date of possession of magazines for the guns is also missing


Note that according to the law as written, it is not prohibited to "buy" or "receive" or "find" a large-capacity magazine. I suggest that one avoid using one of those verbs or synonyms for them when offering advice on large-capacity magazines to other Calguns members. Such advice gives the appearance of encouraging others to violate the law.

There is no obvious effort in California to strictly enforce this law at the level of individual owners; there are some anecdotes suggesting DOJ agents may be observing some out of state gun shows for California buyers. Large-capacity magazines seem to be a very low-profile issue.

 

[deadlyapp]

Jules, Interesting, The different articles I had read made it sound like it was prohibited to possess a high capacity magazine.

The CalGuns wiki also says this and also provides the actual law.

12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes
to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or
offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-
capacity magazine.

12020 (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity
magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity
to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to
include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so
that itcannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

9. If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of
it?

No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
California except by law enforcement agencies, California
peace officers, or licensed dealers.

(PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))

here is the wiki page: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

Nice. That makes me happy that I can go back to Cali with all my high cap mags 😀

Edit: Going back through and reading them makes me think that legally I can't "import" them to cali from washington, but they also can't prove that they weren't owned before the high cap ban went into effect - hence the reason they call it a "wobble" .

Fucking California.

 

[deadlyapp]

Sorry for the double post. Perusing the California DOJ website.

I am moving into California and I own several handguns. What are the new-resident registration requirements?
You are considered to be a personal handgun importer as defined by California law. You may bring all of your otherwise California-legal firearms with you, but you must report all of your handguns to the DOJ within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. [PDF 518 kb / 2 pg] You are not required to report rifles or shotguns. You may not bring ammunition feeding devices with a capacity greater than ten rounds, machineguns, or assault weapons into California.

(PC sections 12001(n), 12072(f)(2))

link here : http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#5

Based on this - while you can legally possess a high capacity magazine in California - It is technically illegal to bring them into the state from another state.

 

[shortylickens]

I left California in 2006. Last I recall, they have 3 things they consider to be "assault riflish". 1. Detachable box magazine
2. Pistol Grip
3. Flash supressor/silencer.

Short weapons like pistols can get away with having a pistol grip and replaceable magazine. Rifles can only have 1 of the above 3 things. If they have two or more its considered an illegal gun. Rimfire calibers are excluded. I had the Walther tactical rifle and it was legal cuz it was a 22.
I can promise your Saiga qualifies as an assault weapon though. At least by their old standards (I have no idea what their new standards are, if any.)
And bringing guns in from another state may also be difficult. Better to store your guns in a safer or something until you've been there a while and know what you can have.

 

[PrinceofWands]

This was a good thread to come up for me anyways, as I'm in Washington now and have been snatching up different things quite willy nilly without thinking about taking them back down to Cali with me. I'll probably leave my AK, but will convert my AR. All my handguns but one are high capacity, so I'll be modifying the magazines to make them legal.

If you need to dump anything before you go down msg me and I might be able to buy it off you.

 

[pontifex]

Jules, Interesting, The different articles I had read made it sound like it was prohibited to possess a high capacity magazine.

The CalGuns wiki also says this and also provides the actual law.





here is the wiki page: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

Nice. That makes me happy that I can go back to Cali with all my high cap mags 😀

Edit: Going back through and reading them makes me think that legally I can't "import" them to cali from washington, but they also can't prove that they weren't owned before the high cap ban went into effect - hence the reason they call it a "wobble" .

Fucking California.

I was going to ask if bringing them in from another state counted as "importing"?

 

[deadlyapp]

I was going to ask if bringing them in from another state counted as "importing"?

Read the post I made after the above one. According the the California AG/DOJ, by carrying a pistol into california - you become a handgun importer, and would be breaking the law by bringing in a greater than 10 rd mag.

To the Longview poster - I'll probably end up leaving them with a good friend of mine if I decide to not take them back to Cali with me. I'm not planning on permanently staying in cali and should be back into WA within 6 months or so.
*crosses fingers*

 

[thepd7]

I have 4 17 round magazines for my Glock 17. Bought them all in California before the Clinton gun ban so I don't honestly see how yours could be identified as being illegal.

Being that I'm in the job market though I'd have to agree with the idiots recommending you don't move here. You'd hate it here...there's no snow, no bugs, great weather year round, lots of cool things to do...but you cannot legally carry a gun.

I've lived here for 20 years of my adult life and you won't find anyone more willing to laugh at all the stupid shit that goes on in this state or make fun of certain areas but you'll also not find anyone more willing to defend this state either. Frankly, I'd rather kill myself than move somewhere like Pennsylvania...or middle amerika or the south or, god forbid, texas.

Sounds like you'd fit in here in Austin with all the other California hippies who think Austin is California, they are so much better than anyone else living in Texas, yet won't leave for anything because it's 4 times cheaper and doesn't suck.

 

[edro]

Sigh... I didn't realize how restrictive CA was on guns.
It's only a matter of time until the rest of the states follow suit.

Better stock pile while you can.

 

[MotF Bane]

I have 4 17 round magazines for my Glock 17. Bought them all in California before the Clinton gun ban so I don't honestly see how yours could be identified as being illegal.

Being that I'm in the job market though I'd have to agree with the idiots recommending you don't move here. You'd hate it here...there's no snow, no bugs, great weather year round, lots of cool things to do...but you cannot legally carry a gun.

It's not California that's the problem, it's the people who live there. Also, forget great weather, you just don't have weather.

 

[sao123]

I've lived here for 20 years of my adult life and you won't find anyone more willing to laugh at all the stupid shit that goes on in this state or make fun of certain areas but you'll also not find anyone more willing to defend this state either. Frankly, I'd rather kill myself than move somewhere like Pennsylvania...or middle amerika or the south or, god forbid, texas.

Excellent... we dont want any of your wrong coast ideaologies spreading any further than it has.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Sigh... I didn't realize how restrictive CA was on guns.
It's only a matter of time until the rest of the states follow suit.

Better stock pile while you can.

I seriously doubt many states will follow California on their wacky laws.