YAFT: Mirage versus F16 versus Mig29

[AndrewR]

I always love these discussions online because the amount of misinformation is tremendous! Good for a laugh. 😀

 

[gUEv]

i also find this interesting...in that the vast majority of you are just really talking out of your ass

have any of you actually piloted either of these military jets? much less both of them? what really gives you much authority on the subject?

i bet almost all posting have not even piloted any kind of aircraft, much less engaged in combat dogfights in sophisticated fighters.


where are you getting your information from? statistical websites? spec sheets? video games?

lol......

 

[ed21x]

of the 60 Mirage 2000-5 and 120 f-16's in Taiwan Navy, they have chosen the Mirage as the primary front line air superiority fighter, while relegating the f-16's and IDF's to bombing. The Mig 29 owns both in terms of airframe, nimbleness and speed- but not necessarily avionics.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Realize tht the F16 was not developed as a air-air fighter but as a fighter bomber.

 

[villager]

F 16 must have far superior electronics and radar and missiles. It wont need to go toe to toe.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: ed21x
of the 60 Mirage 2000-5 and 120 f-16's in Taiwan Navy, they have chosen the Mirage as the primary front line air superiority fighter, while relegating the f-16's and IDF's to bombing. The Mig 29 owns both in terms of airframe, nimbleness and speed- but not necessarily avionics.

I think they chose the mirage as an interceptor because its faster and has longer range missile (has the f-16s gotten the AMRAAMS yet?). I remember reading long ago the Mirage 2000s will engage high altitude fighters/bombers. F-16s mid-altitude, IDFs low level.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: DaFinn
Bad poll, as there is not enough information. But, if we take the latest variants then Mig-29SMT by far.
The new radar gives it a range of 245Km, far exceeding that of F-16. And with the new R27 range of missiles, F-16 would not know what hit it. Also the Mirage 2000-5 has better radar system than F-16.
But, from distance Mig-29SMT would own them both.

From short distance, Mig-29 owns most other aircraft in the world. F-16 pilots who have trained with German Mig-29 have learned that AA-11+Helmet mounted sights+45 degree AoA (Angle of Attack)+ far superior avionics = deadly combination.

MIG-29 = teh winnar.

Quick, what's the maximum range for the AN/APG-68 radar?

 

[Kenazo]

Is the mig-29 meant to combat the F-16? or is it more comparable to an F-15?

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Is the mig-29 meant to combat the F-16? or is it more comparable to an F-15?

Yea, I think the wrong question is being asked here. F15 vs. Mig29 is the better question.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: Armitage

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Is the mig-29 meant to combat the F-16? or is it more comparable to an F-15?

Yea, I think the wrong question is being asked here. F15 vs. Mig29 is the better question.

Eh? I thought the Mig-29 and F-16 were great dogfighters, very manueverable. The F-15 is more of an interceptor like the SU-27? But don't take my word for it, I read those out of date, cheap, fighter books, from my local library that no one wants.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Eh? I thought the Mig-29 and F-16 were great dogfighters, very manueverable. The F-15 is more of an interceptor like the SU-27? But don't take my word for it, I read those out of date, cheap, fighter books, from my local library that no one wants.

The F-15 was built to counter what we thought the Mig-25 was. The government got vastly overinflated reports about the Mig-25's abilities and rushed to get a US counterpart developed.

The Mig-25 is very fast, has a very high ceiling, but it's not as advanced in other areas.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Is the mig-29 meant to combat the F-16? or is it more comparable to an F-15?

F-15 or F/A-18, if it involved our navy. A fight between the F-16 and mig29 would probably only occur if Syria could afford Mig29's. But, then the Mig's would get shot down.

But the Mig is better than both the f-15 and 16. Don't know about the f/a-18

 

[AndrewR]

I simply have to correct some of this junk. Need to watch myself though.

Originally posted by: ed21x
of the 60 Mirage 2000-5 and 120 f-16's in Taiwan Navy, they have chosen the Mirage as the primary front line air superiority fighter, while relegating the f-16's and IDF's to bombing. The Mig 29 owns both in terms of airframe, nimbleness and speed- but not necessarily avionics.

Did the fact that Taiwan has the F-16A (as opposed to F-16C Block 50 or so) factor into your analysis at all? The Mirage 2000-5 is a much newer aircraft and therefore is more capable than the -16A model. You're taking one fact and then comparing apples to oranges.

Realize tht the F16 was not developed as a air-air fighter but as a fighter bomber.

Minor quibble, but it was conceived as a general purpose airframe and can be configured for different roles. There are air-to-air versions of the F-16. I concede the point that the F-15 was designed as an air superiority fighter as compared to the F-16's heritage.

Is the mig-29 meant to combat the F-16? or is it more comparable to an F-15?

Mig-29 vs. F-16 / Flanker series vs. F-15. Roughly similiar size, roughly similiar capes (though -29 is not a ground attack fighter to any meaningful degree).

But the Mig is better than both the f-15 and 16. Don't know about the f/a-18

:roll: Have you ever even been near all four aircraft?

 

[Panakk]

Originally posted by: IamElectro

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
You can see the stats at www.fas.org

Mig29 max speed: mach 2.3
F16 max speed: mach 2.0

Also the mig 29 has 2 engines, making it less fragile (can still fly with one). I'm pretty sure that the Mig 29 is more manueverable as well, but the f16 would have better electronics, radar, missle guidance systems, etc. I would give a slight edge to the mig 29. If neither plane had air to air missles and had to rely on cannons, the mig 29 would have a big advantage though.

I would agree
I cant remember what this the maneuver is called that the mig 29 can do, but its the only plane that can do it and its practically a backwards summersault.

Its maybe called the Tailslide or Cobra

The Cobra was the SU-27 specialty.

 

[Mo0o]

My friends mitsubishi mirage can fight an F16? man i better go tell him

 

[CVSiN]

Well in my 10 years in the US Navy working on Lot 13-16 F/A-18C/Ds In multiple outings with the Germans and serveral other countries in NATO excercies the Hornet performed VERY well... this was not the new SuperHornet either..
we were able to win engagements about 3/4 of the time vs the Germans MiG-29s..

The F/A-18C can also do extremely well agaisnt the F-16 block 40s as well.. in mutiple trips to fallon and Nellis nevada to train against the Air Farce ( 😛 ) we won over 65% of the mock air wars...

I have worked with a Navy detachment to work with a group of French Air Men in Toulon France flying agaisnt thier Mirages and Super Entendards.. they are just pitifull.... sorry Frenchies but hopefully the Eurofighter will change that for you guys...

Now if you want to know who has some of the other best trained fighter pilots in the world... try flying agasint the Isrealis... they know how to fly... just about every time we flew agasint them they inflicted heavier losses than they took... these guys were good.. our pilots gave them thier admiration for sure...
and quite a few times during the excercises where we treated to an Isreali victory flyover in thier F16s at flight deck level lol....

We never got to fly agaisnt the SU-27 or the SU-33 but it is a much superior aircraft to the 29...
I suspect they woulda been very tough opponants for our aircraft and pilots...

As for the F-14D Super tomcat... it is sorely needing an upgrade... it is a very good BVR dogfighter but not super manuverable... the phoenix can indeed track and turn fast enough to kill any fighter in the world.. this argument is pointless.. the problem is the Navy does not fire them very often as they cost 1 mil each....
Alert loads on Tomcats are usually only 2 phoenix then 2 amraam and 2 winders.. and a loaded gun...
this is what the squadrons that are still afloat on toms sit with at all times when we are Deployed.

F-15 good jet very powerful engines and radar.. too large to be extremely agile.. the 16 and the 18 still dog it in a close range dog fight... again at range is where the 15 has the edge with its better radar for the job... the 16 and the 18 radars are not dedicated figter radars... as said above they were designed as precision fighter bombers... the 18 can drop a 500lb bomb on a dime....

 

[Horus]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
A properly trained pilot in a slightly inferior aircraft will own the pilot of a superior aircraft.

[Endoftheworldguy]WRAONG![/endoftheworldguy]

Mirage(Any variation) Old design, underpowered, not nearly as manouverable.

F16- Excellent Thrust-to-weight ratio, excellent radar, good power and manouverable.

MiG29- Very good power, shoddy radar, good manouverablilty.

Ask the Iraqi Air Force. F16 is the superior.

HOWEVER....

This is like a Pentium 3 VS Old Athlon fight. These aircraft are OLD! Quite old! The REAL argument SHOULD be...

F22 Raptor vs. Eurofighter Vs. Rafael Vs. SU-33...who would win?

 

[DaFinn]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: DaFinn
Bad poll, as there is not enough information. But, if we take the latest variants then Mig-29SMT by far.
The new radar gives it a range of 245Km, far exceeding that of F-16. And with the new R27 range of missiles, F-16 would not know what hit it. Also the Mirage 2000-5 has better radar system than F-16.
But, from distance Mig-29SMT would own them both.

From short distance, Mig-29 owns most other aircraft in the world. F-16 pilots who have trained with German Mig-29 have learned that AA-11+Helmet mounted sights+45 degree AoA (Angle of Attack)+ far superior avionics = deadly combination.

MIG-29 = teh winnar.

Quick, what's the maximum range for the AN/APG-68 radar?

Dunno exact range as its not public info... The new F-16C patch 60 is going to have new APG-80 radar system. That might change te picture somewhat...

 

[booger711]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
A properly trained pilot in a slightly inferior aircraft will own the pilot of a superior aircraft.

he said both pilots equal