YACT: Verify my understanding of physics and mechanics, plz.

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
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So, you may remember me posting about a car accident a ways back. Friend put his 1990 Tempo into a Civic Hybrid.

For whatever reason, he bought a "new" Tempo. He refused to even really consider any other cars. He was leaving for a vacation, and at 8PM, got a tip that there was a Tempo on a used car lot from his mother. It was 5 hours before he was due at the airport, and we'd all just gotten in the pool, but he DEMANDED to go "BUY THAT CAR!"

It's dark out, he takes a quick look, takes a 2 mile test drive, and says "I'll take it." It's an '87 Tempo, with less mileage on the clock than my 2006 Focus did when I bought it. The car looks BRAND NEW on the interior and in the engine bay. Every single part is new. Very suspicious to me, but not to him. To me, it seems like a flood damaged car that's been rebuilt for $50. The fact that it's the nicest looking car on the lot (and also the newest) is also a matter of concern to me. It's an AWD car, but the halfshafts have been removed, effectively making it a FWD car.

He then forks over the $1200 (not a bad buy, really, but I still wouldn't have done it on that short notice), and takes off for his 10-day vacation. Came back, picked up the car, went through all the hoops to transfer the tags from his previous Tempo, registered to his parents, to him and put it on that car (a process which took 3 days, left him without transportation for 3 days, cost him $15 in food to pay people to shuttle him around, and a few hundred dollars in missed work, all to save the $19 "extra" it would have cost to get new tags and just turn in the old ones)

So, he's been driving the car less than a day now, and is picking out "minor" flaws (shifts rough, some funny noises, etc.), but is saying "it's all good". It's a 1.9L engine. Apparently VERY underpowered - he REFUSES to allow any of his friends to be passengers, because he knows we'll make fun of it even worse than we did his previous Tempo.

Anyway, I suggested that he put the half-shafts back in, on the off chance that it may fix the power issues, and at worse, it'll improve ride and handling - his response was "That'll halve my gas mileage!"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, one of two things is happening with his car:
1) All the power is being delivered to the front wheels. Gas mileage would change subtly, if at all because of mechanical drag changes, and may improve.
2) 50% of the power is being delievered to the front wheels, and the other half is just spinning a mechanical part around rather violently. Gas mileage would change only subtly, but the power problems would promptly dissapear.
 

Black88GTA

Diamond Member
Sep 9, 2003
3,430
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Wow. $1200 for a 20 year old Tempo a "good" buy? LOL! I don't think it's worth that much with 0 miles on it, but then again, I hate Tempos. The only "cool" thing about it is the AWD, I don't think they made many of those. But it's a weak AWD system anyway, so meh.

For starters...I would definitely put the halfshafts back in, and go from there.

Did he carfax it? PM me the vin, I may or may not have a sub that expires in two days... ;)
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Conservation of energy....twice the power = twice the mileage. If something is cutting his power, especially because its spinning something around, its cutting his mileage.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
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Originally posted by: Black88GTA
Wow. $1200 for a 20 year old Tempo a "good" buy? LOL! I don't think it's worth that much with 0 miles on it, but then again, I hate Tempos. The only "cool" thing about it is the AWD, I don't think they made many of those. But it's a weak AWD system anyway, so meh.

For starters...I would definitely put the halfshafts back in, and go from there.

Did he carfax it? PM me the vin, I may or may not have a sub that expires in two days... ;)
It would have been a good buy if it had the huge turbo V6, functional AWD, and was in that condition.


He won't let me close enough to the car to get the VIN, he blames me for his idiot self running the red light (yes, it is true that I momentarily distracted him, but he says, and admitted to the cop that he had plenty of time to look back at the road, notice the stopped traffic, and come to a complete stop - but it "never occured to him" to look at the traffic light....

Oh, and I may or may not have hit my shin against his 'new' Tempo's bumper to see if the "accordion" folds on the bumpers were actually functional - and it seems they are. And I pointed out an enormous paint chip in the front grille.

And of course he didn't carfax it - he bought it seconds before closing time at a shady single-man used car lot in an office the size of a postage stamp with one lightbulb hanging from the ceiling the night before he went to the other end of the country to have sex with some girl for 10 straight days.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,125
792
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ROFL!
My 1st car was an '87 Tempo I bought from a police auction for $250. It was old then, and that was 10 years ago. The engines in those things were like 100hp :laugh:

Tell him to take it to a mechanic for a "lemonbuster" check while he still has the chance.
 

natto fire

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2000
7,117
10
76
Umm, the smallest engine to ever go into a Tempo was the 2.0L diesel engine, and that was built by Mazda.

As for your AWD question, that depends on how it is set up. I would guess that if it is moving at all with the rear halfshafts missing (WHY?), then it is not using a center-differential, and is not actually losing any power because of the powertrain. (Think of getting a car stuck with an open differential, the wheel that offers the least resistance gets all the power)
So, yeah who knows really. Why anyone would spend $1200 on a car with half it's powertrain is beyond me, but whatever. Also, $1200 is quite a bit for a Tempo, must be in really good shape.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
I had a Tempo at one time, it wasn't and awful car but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy another.
Your friend is just an idiot, he bought something that is going to be a money pit instead of a car that might be reliable transportation.
Also correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the 2.3 ltr was the standard motor in the Tempo, with a 3.0 ltr v6 optional, the 1.9 was used in the Escort.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
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Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Umm, the smallest engine to ever go into a Tempo was the 2.0L diesel engine, and that was built by Mazda.

As for your AWD question, that depends on how it is set up. I would guess that if it is moving at all with the rear halfshafts missing (WHY?), then it is not using a center-differential, and is not actually losing any power because of the powertrain. (Think of getting a car stuck with an open differential, the wheel that offers the least resistance gets all the power)
So, yeah who knows really. Why anyone would spend $1200 on a car with half it's powertrain is beyond me, but whatever. Also, $1200 is quite a bit for a Tempo, must be in really good shape.

*shrug* He says it's 1.9L, I can't get close enough to check. If it is, I'd assume it came out of an Escort. Or something crappy like that. As I said, the whole thing looked mint.

And his insurance company paid over $6k for his 1990 Tempo, which was ENTIRELY broken even prior to the accident. So if you want to talk about high prices, you might want to start there.

Tempo prices around here seem to be artificially inflated, they're all in the $1-3k range, because there appears to be a demand for them (I see them on the road ALL THE TIME, I can't explain it. Half my neighborhood drives Tempos. The other half drives Probes. I blame Three Mile Island.)
 

natto fire

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2000
7,117
10
76
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
I had a Tempo at one time, it wasn't and awful car but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to buy another.
Your friend is just an idiot, he bought something that is going to be a money pit instead of a car that might be reliable transportation.
Also correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the 2.3 ltr was the standard motor in the Tempo, with a 3.0 ltr v6 optional, the 1.9 was used in the Escort.

Yeah, they actually offered a 2L diesel in 84-87, but the 2.3L gasoline was essentially the same from 84-94. (sans the fuel injection systems)
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
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tony to let u kno... that engine was rebuilt and rewired.. cuz the wiring is brand new in it... and it was tuned... pulling the car out of park will drop the engine idle to about 700RPM (while in park it runs at 1100RPM, which is normal) so whoever had that car was looking to save gas
Doesn't EVERY car do that?
not to the point where the engine is barely getting enough gas to run

He insists on trusting that he knows what a driveway mechanic who may or may not have had any idea what they were doing (some of the wiring is wrong, btw, he discovered that the right turn signal is miswired) was intending to do. And misspelling "know". And "because". And ignoring the shift key.

He has furnished adequate proof that it may actually be a 1.9L engine to me, however. The service manual for his '90 features a 1.9L Tempo diagram. Supposedly these are "ultra-rare" and "not talked about much outside the tempo community". The fact that there's a COMMUNITY for these things kind of scares me. The engine also bears little resemblence to his previous 2.3L engine, despite the fact that the engine was never really updated, aside from fuel injection - and it's definitely not a V6. And it doesn't take diesel. (or, I should say, it runs fine - sort of - on gasoline)
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
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Getting it back into AWD trim will likely cost some gas mileage - but nowhere near half.

But ....

There's probably a good reason why those half shafts are missing, and I doubt it has to do with mileage. You're likely to find some major problems with the other half of the drivetrain.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Tempo prices around here seem to be artificially inflated, they're all in the $1-3k range, because there appears to be a demand for them (I see them on the road ALL THE TIME, I can't explain it. Half my neighborhood drives Tempos. The other half drives Probes. I blame Three Mile Island.)

Whoa, the Tempo is a total econobox, but at least it's SOMEWHAT reliable. The Probe is a sh!tbox. And $6000 for a 1990 Tempo? PLEASE tell me you're joking...

IMHO, if you have any mechanical aptitude at all, you NEVER buy used cars at a dealer. If you don't have any mechanical aptitude at all, you find a friend who does, and STILL never buy used cars at a dealer.

Originally posted by: Armitage
There's probably a good reason why those half shafts are missing, and I doubt it has to do with mileage. You're likely to find some major problems with the other half of the drivetrain.

Exactly. No one yanks the halfshafts for no good reason; it's kind of a pain.

Unless, of course, they were working on the car, put it back together, and then realized they forgot to install them, but decided it wasn't worth taking it back apart and doing it right:laugh: Which indicated a degree of incompetence that would make me run screaming.

So he still has $4800 left from the insurance settlement? Tell him to go buy a real car. My MR2 is ten times that car that Tempo will EVER be, and it only cost me $2100. Just get him a Corolla or something if he just wants a boring econobox...
 

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
1
0
they made an AWD tempo? :confused:

learn something i guess.. how was awd set up on them?
 

I Saw OJ

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
4,923
2
76
Some people are just brain washed about cars and dont even know why. Take my buddies wife. Her car needed new tires and she HAD to have the EXACT same tires that were on there before, no reason given. I tried to explain to her that there are many good brands of tires out there for cheaper. I even tried to tell her she could get the same brand (Michelin) but a different model of tire for cheaper, no dice. You just cant reason with some people.
 

wasssup

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2000
3,142
0
0
Originally posted by: I Saw OJ
Some people are just brain washed about cars and dont even know why. Take my buddies wife. Her car needed new tires and she HAD to have the EXACT same tires that were on there before, no reason given. I tried to explain to her that there are many good brands of tires out there for cheaper. I even tried to tell her she could get the same brand (Michelin) but a different model of tire for cheaper, no dice. You just cant reason with some people.

Oh man my relatives/family are like that. I don't even try to reason with them anymore.
 

Viperoni

Lifer
Jan 4, 2000
11,084
1
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Originally posted by: wasssup
Originally posted by: I Saw OJ
Some people are just brain washed about cars and dont even know why. Take my buddies wife. Her car needed new tires and she HAD to have the EXACT same tires that were on there before, no reason given. I tried to explain to her that there are many good brands of tires out there for cheaper. I even tried to tell her she could get the same brand (Michelin) but a different model of tire for cheaper, no dice. You just cant reason with some people.

Oh man my relatives/family are like that. I don't even try to reason with them anymore.

I hear ya! I wanted my dad to get Impala SS springs when he replaced his buick roadmaster's springs, they'd be a big stiffer and a bit shorter... but no. Now he has a car that's crazy high in the front, looks like balls, and drives like a floaty boat. Oh well, he has to put up with it, not me hahaahah

Anyhow, Tempo's were decent cars, but unless you had a 3.0L V6 5speed (like I did :evil: ), slow as balls. I did beat a 2.2L probe on the highway with my moms V6 auto tempo once thoguh..... The AWD system in them is activated by a switch on the dashboard, but it should only be used whenever extra traction is needed at that moment. It's a very weak system that can't withstand anymore power than the ~125ftlb and ~100hp that the engine puts out, or any abuse. It's RARE to find a tempo with AWD as well. It was never available on V6 or manual tranny tempo's.

His mileage will go down maybe 2mpg with the AWD off and maybe 5 with it on, once he reinstalls the halfshafts, which he definetely should.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
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Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Tempo prices around here seem to be artificially inflated, they're all in the $1-3k range, because there appears to be a demand for them (I see them on the road ALL THE TIME, I can't explain it. Half my neighborhood drives Tempos. The other half drives Probes. I blame Three Mile Island.)

Whoa, the Tempo is a total econobox, but at least it's SOMEWHAT reliable. The Probe is a sh!tbox. And $6000 for a 1990 Tempo? PLEASE tell me you're joking...

IMHO, if you have any mechanical aptitude at all, you NEVER buy used cars at a dealer. If you don't have any mechanical aptitude at all, you find a friend who does, and STILL never buy used cars at a dealer.

Originally posted by: Armitage
There's probably a good reason why those half shafts are missing, and I doubt it has to do with mileage. You're likely to find some major problems with the other half of the drivetrain.

Exactly. No one yanks the halfshafts for no good reason; it's kind of a pain.

Unless, of course, they were working on the car, put it back together, and then realized they forgot to install them, but decided it wasn't worth taking it back apart and doing it right:laugh: Which indicated a degree of incompetence that would make me run screaming.

So he still has $4800 left from the insurance settlement? Tell him to go buy a real car. My MR2 is ten times that car that Tempo will EVER be, and it only cost me $2100. Just get him a Corolla or something if he just wants a boring econobox...

He doesn't have $4800 left - where do you think the money for his sudden 10-day "Ima lose my virginity" trip came from?

And considering the whole car looks to be rebuilt (why?), I wouldn't be surprised if incompetance is indeed the reason for the missing drivetrain components. It's certainly the reason for the turn signals not working at spec.

And on dealerships... Buying at a REAL used car dealership, where the cars are newer than a quarter century is passable, if you have a keen eye and their volume is high enough for them not to need to rape you to the tune of a couple grand to pay for their kid's next meal.

But buying at a shady, small, run-down shack car dealership that sells approximately 1 car a month, if that, is quite a different matter, and that's what we're dealing with.
 

EyeMWing

Banned
Jun 13, 2003
15,670
1
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Originally posted by: LoKe
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
But then, if I didn't have friends, I wouldn't have this here girlfriend (yes, those are AMD stickers). So I guess these assbags are worth something.

She's barely even wearing those pants. I see room for more AMD stickers.

I'd run away mid-sticker application because of a power failure.

Trust me, stickers were applied in many places, including several that the camera simply cannot see.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
mistake 1: buying a ford
mistake 2: expecting it to work
mistake 3: not correcting mistakes 1 & 2
mistake 4: still being alive after mistake 3
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
10,575
292
126
- Stop trying to reason with your friend and you will both be happier. Just accept that he is like that. If you can't accept that, lose him as a friend.
- There's no good reason to remove the half shafts in the first place. This is suspect.

__________________
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, one of two things is happening with his car:
1) All the power is being delivered to the front wheels. Gas mileage would change subtly, if at all because of mechanical drag changes, and may improve.
2) 50% of the power is being delievered to the front wheels, and the other half is just spinning a mechanical part around rather violently. Gas mileage would change only subtly, but the power problems would promptly dissapear."
__________________

You don't know what amount of power is going to the front wheels. It depends on how the power gets split between front and rear, and what happens if car senses slippage at rear. Removing the rear half shafts may prove to be *counter* productive. If any power is still going to rear differential, that is wasted. It may be prematurely wearing out the center (3rd) differential/transfer case. Except for the half shafts, all that weight for awd is still there, being hauled around as dead and useless weight. I really can't see how removing the rear half shafts is anything but a huge mistake. BTW if the rear shafts had rotation seals at the ends, what's plugging the holes where the shafts used to be at the differential and the wheel hubs?