YACT: Tuner or chip for better performance?

[OS]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: NutBucket
A different MAF sensor will allow more air through it. Different MAF = bigger MAF. I think the Ford guys like to use Cobra MAF's. I could be mistaken tho.

:beer:

OS, think throttle body with MAF. Bigger = more air.

I don't understand still, do you mean an oversized throttle body?? If that's the case, that mod alone yields questionable gains, you need to port the intake manifold and preferably get it flow matched to have good, consistent gains. I'm an import whore tho, so i don't know much about V8 tuning.

 

[Shockwave]

No, its not a throttle body. the reference to one was simply to give a mental image. Read this if you want a better idea of what they are and how they work.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Shockwave
No, its not a throttle body. the reference to one was simply to give a mental image. Read this if you want a better idea of what they are and how they work.

huh, so you're talking about the entire intake assembly that holds the MAF sensor. Seems kind of gimmicky though, do you know of any 3rd party dynos or timeslips to back up the gains? I mean sh*t, that's a 500-800 part, for just a tube and a sensor. And I thought import intakes were expensive.

 

[Shockwave]

I dont know of any dyno sheets right off to see actual gains. As for gimmicky, well...The MAF senses the air intake to adjust the settings for proper running (air fuel ratio, spark etc) so on one hand you could say it is gimmicky as it isnt a direct power application like a supercharger, but it is an engine calibaration systme to ensure your getting the maximum power from whats available so on that hand its not a gimmick but a needed component on the engine. Either way, it would be low on my list of items to upgrade.

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Shockwave
No, its not a throttle body. the reference to one was simply to give a mental image. Read this if you want a better idea of what they are and how they work.

huh, so you're talking about the entire intake assembly that holds the MAF sensor. Seems kind of gimmicky though, do you know of any 3rd party dynos or timeslips to back up the gains? I mean sh*t, that's a 500-800 part, for just a tube and a sensor. And I thought import intakes were expensive.

Imports are still expensive, same goes for all OHC motors, have fun

i picked up all 8 of my Fuel Injectors for my truck (30# up from 21# stock) for $200 shipped, price out a set of 4 on an import they will pay more for 4 then I paid for 8 in most cases

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: LAUST

Imports are still expensive, same goes for all OHC motors, have fun

i picked up all 8 of my Fuel Injectors for my truck (30# up from 21# stock) for $200 shipped, price out a set of 4 on an import they will pay more for 4 then I paid for 8 in most cases

It's not really true anymore thanks to economy of scale. Header for a honda is like $250, buy header for an LS1 and its like $700.

My 2003 accord, I have seen long blocks for 1k. Blow up an engine, just get another one.

 

[Ronstang]

I'm not reading through all the posts but as an experienced builder of Ford EFI engines I can pretty much say that with a stock engine/exhaust combo anything you do with w chip/tuner will be a big waste of money because the gain will be minimal at best. There are not many mods for the 4.6/5.4 engine that yield much of a gain either unless you want to supercharge it, and on your budget plan that is out. Even an exhaust change on a stock engine will yield little real world gain. Changing parts like the MAF are a waste of $$$ too unless there are a lot of other mods that require more air.....a stock engine will actually lose low end torque with a bigger MAF.

If you want real power gains then be prepared to spend $$$, if you want the quick feel good "pretend HP adders" then spend your money but realize it is more of a waste of money berause more than likely the most it is going to boost is your ego and decrease the size of your bank acoount......if your a ricer GO FOR IT!!!!!!!

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
I'm not reading through all the posts but as an experienced builder of Ford EFI engines I can pretty much say that with a stock engine/exhaust combo anything you do with w chip/tuner will be a big waste of money because the gain will be minimal at best. There are not many mods for the 4.6/5.4 engine that yield much of a gain either unless you want to supercharge it, and on your budget plan that is out. Even an exhaust change on a stock engine will yield little real world gain. Changing parts like the MAF are a waste of $$$ too unless there are a lot of other mods that require more air.....a stock engine will actually lose low end torque with a bigger MAF.

If you want real power gains then be prepared to spend $$$, if you want the quick feel good "pretend HP adders" then spend your money but realize it is more of a waste of money berause more than likely the most it is going to boost is your ego and decrease the size of your bank acoount......if your a ricer GO FOR IT!!!!!!!

Your saying reprogramming the ECU wont yeild much difference? What would you do for mroe HP/Torque? Keep in mind, i dont want to pull a house. Just a bit more get up and go is all I really need. I figure 30-50 ponies more would do me perfect (Granted, I 'd love to go all out and run forced induction, but I dont have the bucks for that)

 

[Ronstang]

Sorry, but I know no way to get a reliable 30-50 Hp out of a modular engine in an SUV. Believe me if there was the Mustang guys would be all over it but sadly 4.6/5.4 engines are real hard to wring HP out of without forced induction. This is why I usually try to steer people clear of mods unless they have a lot of $$$ and are real serious. The exhaust change would get you the most HP but it will still be minimal on a truck.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Sorry, but I know no way to get a reliable 30-50 Hp out of a modular engine in an SUV. Believe me if there was the Mustang guys would be all over it but sadly 4.6/5.4 engines are real hard to wring HP out of without forced induction. This is why I usually try to steer people clear of mods unless they have a lot of $$$ and are real serious. The exhaust change would get you the most HP but it will still be minimal on a truck.

Ok, in your opinion what kinda real-world estimate could I see in a 5.4 going with cold air intake, cat back and chip?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Sorry, but I know no way to get a reliable 30-50 Hp out of a modular engine in an SUV. Believe me if there was the Mustang guys would be all over it but sadly 4.6/5.4 engines are real hard to wring HP out of without forced induction. This is why I usually try to steer people clear of mods unless they have a lot of $$$ and are real serious. The exhaust change would get you the most HP but it will still be minimal on a truck.

Ok, in your opinion what kinda real-world estimate could I see in a 5.4 going with cold air intake, cat back and chip?

I have no real data to back it up but I don't think you could get much more than 20 HP on the dyno. I could be wrong but before you spend any $$ go to one of the good Mustang chat boards like the Corral and pose your questions where there will be more people with direct experience with your application.....I mostly build hot street/strip pushrod V8s....currently a 351Windors NA fuel injected Mustang Coupe that runs 11.5s on a mild engine.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Sorry, but I know no way to get a reliable 30-50 Hp out of a modular engine in an SUV. Believe me if there was the Mustang guys would be all over it but sadly 4.6/5.4 engines are real hard to wring HP out of without forced induction. This is why I usually try to steer people clear of mods unless they have a lot of $$$ and are real serious. The exhaust change would get you the most HP but it will still be minimal on a truck.

Ok, in your opinion what kinda real-world estimate could I see in a 5.4 going with cold air intake, cat back and chip?

I have no real data to back it up but I don't think you could get much more than 20 HP on the dyno. I could be wrong but before you spend any $$ go to one of the good Mustang chat boards like the Corral and pose your questions where there will be more people with direct experience with your application.....I mostly build hot street/strip pushrod V8s....currently a 351Windors NA fuel injected Mustang Coupe that runs 11.5s on a mild engine.

Nice.
Link to these forums? But, 20-25 HP would probably do me. Right now its a toss up as to whether I overload the tires, lose traction and spin or overload the engine and start to bog down in deep sand. Granted, I'm using pretty laid back tires for my off roading as I dont do it much so new tires would help the first part, which brings me to needing just a bit more under the hood. I'm not looking for 100 or 200 extra ponies. Just a bit more oomph is all.

 

[Ronstang]

http://www.corral.net/forums/

Give the guys there a shot, there is usually someone that knows something there but as usual make sure you wade throught the bullshit.

 

[Quixfire]

Shockwave, Ronstang is right. The 5.4L is pretty much maxed out for performance and mileage when they were built. Even the typical free flowing exhaust doesn't add much to the bottom line over the cost. If I was looking to boost the power in a Ford SUV I would look a supercharger or might a 5.4L 4V engine swap.

 

[CraigRT]

you'll also need more mods to compliment the chip.. things like free flow exhaust/intake help computer chips make the power they are suppose to!
there is a certain place to start, and i wouldn't start with an ECU, but that's just me

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: LAUST

Imports are still expensive, same goes for all OHC motors, have fun

i picked up all 8 of my Fuel Injectors for my truck (30# up from 21# stock) for $200 shipped, price out a set of 4 on an import they will pay more for 4 then I paid for 8 in most cases

It's not really true anymore thanks to economy of scale. Header for a honda is like $250, buy header for an LS1 and its like $700.

My 2003 accord, I have seen long blocks for 1k. Blow up an engine, just get another one.

Naaa you can get a set of Edelbrock CERAMIC coated shorty headerS (plurl) for about $420 for the LS1, you can dump the ceramic coating and get them for even down to $280 from Pacesetter for the PAIR. Not singular like the Honda

LS1's are pretty cheap for the entire block too, I can pick up the LQ4 (6.0 liter version) for $2500 brand new never even fired up one time and thats the complete engine, more then just a longblock. The LS1's are even cheaper as everyone wants to go to the LQ4 cause it's best for making a 427 stroker As for my 5.3 in my truck I have seen people saying "Make me an offer" <--- why I put a blower on it so soon, if I blow it up it's no big deal

 

[Pliablemoose]

I agree with the folks about minimal gains, you'll get a lot louder vehicle with the mods you're talking about (more air intake noise & more exhaust noise).

If you look @ the OE tubing sizes, etc, you can see Detroit was paying attention to what the tuners were doing. I used to mod my vehicles right away, but after I looked @ the size of the tubing on my 03' F150's exhaust & intake & the size of the airbox, I decided to leave it alone.

 

[mrCide]

ECU reprogram isnt gonna do much without forced induction, am i right folks?

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I agree with the folks about minimal gains, you'll get a lot louder vehicle with the mods you're talking about (more air intake noise & more exhaust noise).

If you look @ the OE tubing sizes, etc, you can see Detroit was paying attention to what the tuners were doing. I used to mod my vehicles right away, but after I looked @ the size of the tubing on my 03' F150's exhaust & intake & the size of the airbox, I decided to leave it alone.

This is on a 99 though. Were the 99's opened up on the intake and exhaust like the newer ones?
Man, you guys are kinda depressin me... I was hopin to see some decent gains without going all out....

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I agree with the folks about minimal gains, you'll get a lot louder vehicle with the mods you're talking about (more air intake noise & more exhaust noise).

If you look @ the OE tubing sizes, etc, you can see Detroit was paying attention to what the tuners were doing. I used to mod my vehicles right away, but after I looked @ the size of the tubing on my 03' F150's exhaust & intake & the size of the airbox, I decided to leave it alone.

This is on a 99 though. Were the 99's opened up on the intake and exhaust like the newer ones?
Man, you guys are kinda depressin me... I was hopin to see some decent gains without going all out....

Did you check out the Corral Forums? I just don't see a good ROI for you unless you are willing to spend a lot of money.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Shockwave

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I agree with the folks about minimal gains, you'll get a lot louder vehicle with the mods you're talking about (more air intake noise & more exhaust noise).

If you look @ the OE tubing sizes, etc, you can see Detroit was paying attention to what the tuners were doing. I used to mod my vehicles right away, but after I looked @ the size of the tubing on my 03' F150's exhaust & intake & the size of the airbox, I decided to leave it alone.

This is on a 99 though. Were the 99's opened up on the intake and exhaust like the newer ones?
Man, you guys are kinda depressin me... I was hopin to see some decent gains without going all out....

Did you check out the Corral Forums? I just don't see a good ROI for you unless you are willing to spend a lot of money.

Oh yes! The problem I found there is that most of them talk about pretty extensive mods. Not suprising considereding there a buncha Stang gearheads
They didnt seem to talk about simple upgrades very much, if at all. Granted, I'm still browsing the site though.

 

[RagingBITCH]

What about F150online.com?

 

[0roo0roo]

ah so you can go from polluting, to gross polluting...