YACT - Third battery this year?

TGregg

Senior member
Dec 22, 2003
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Around XMas, my car battery died (at OfficeMax). When I tried to start it, I could hear that gizmo on the starter clicking, but the starter wasn't fireing. So I took the battery back to Sam's, and got about 50% off of a new one since it was still on the prorated warranty.

Then about early March, I got into my car, turned the key, heard one click, and everything was dead. No display on the clock, no car alarm, no nothing. Swapped the battery at Sam's again.

Yesterday, I drove 7 miles to the liquor store, then 7 more to the video store. When I came out of the video store, the same darn thing happened. Car clicked once, and was completely dead. The starter solenoid was not firing, the clock went out.

Currently I plan to take the battery out of the car, borrow the charger from my nice neighbor, charge it up and drive it to a repair place. But perhaps I can get some good advice from AT. Here's some details to assist with figuring this out.

I don't drive this car much. Typically a couple short trips a week. It's a `96 Firebird with a 350 engine, and the battery is several hundred CCAs more than required by the book the car came with. When the battery is dead like this, I cannot jump it with a 4 cylinder Escort wagon.

The Firebird has a few things wrong with it. The Engine Coolant light is stuck on. Last winter it came on, and this spring I replaced a broken overflow tank (stupid dealer-only plastic part cost about $60, geez), but the sensor must be fuxored - there's plenty of coolant. Also, the headlight closed sensor seems to be broken - the headlights open and close, and the close motor runs until it times out every time I set or unset the alarm.

This car sleeps in my garage with the alarm off for days at a time. Seems hard to believe that I've run across two bad batteries in a row. And I checked the "Born On" date on this battery when I got it - Feb `04 (the previous one was Aug `03). But it's also hard to believe that the car could go from a good start to 100% dead in 7 miles. I was only in the video store about 5 minutes. What I am afraid of, is some sort of tough-to-find intermittent short.

Thanks in advance for any help. I'm reasonably capable of minor car repairs (like swapping batteries or putting in a new overflow coolant tank), but things like new piston rings are way beyond me. I've also got an El Cheapo (tm) analog voltmeter, FWIW.
 

Curly01

Senior member
Jul 5, 2002
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could be that the alternater is over charging and frying your battery. Use your voltmeter and see how many amps the alteranter is actually putting out.
 

TwoBills

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Apr 11, 2004
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Sounds like an intermittent short. With the car shut off, pull the + battery terminal and put your meter in series between the battery lead and the battery terminal (set meter to read dc amps). You should be reading very little draw, maybe .25 or less. Open a door and watch the meter. The additional amps is the draw of the interior light. If your original reading is more than the draw of the interior lite, well you get the idea. Test it with all the lights and accessories, wiggle wires, unplug things until you see the original draw drop off. Once you find this you've isolated the problem. Go from there.
Just saw curly's post. Yeah, you could be cooking the battery, too. Any sulfer smells? Is the water level low? Something else to think about.
 

Bulk Beef

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2001
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You might have a maverick spark - you need to chase it into a frame member, then plug it up with a wad of electrical tape to make sure it doesn't get back out.
 

TGregg

Senior member
Dec 22, 2003
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Wow, found a cool link that describes how to fix my headlight problem. Turns out there's an El Cheapo nylon gear that frequently gets stripped. Here's a link on how to fix it in 4th gen Firebirds and Trans-ams.

Take me there!

Thanks for the overcharging alternator theory, Curly and DopeFiend. I'm not sure where the alternator is. This engine has one of those "Super Belts" that wind all across the face of the engine. I hope that thing isn't in the middle.

If it's not, how do I check the volts/amps (actually it's a multimeter that I have) from the alternator?
 

TGregg

Senior member
Dec 22, 2003
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Originally posted by: TwoBills
Sounds like an intermittent short. With the car shut off, pull the + battery terminal and put your meter in series between the battery lead and the battery terminal (set meter to read dc amps). You should be reading very little draw, maybe .25 or less. Open a door and watch the meter. The additional amps is the draw of the interior light. If your original reading is more than the draw of the interior lite, well you get the idea. Test it with all the lights and accessories, wiggle wires, unplug things until you see the original draw drop off. Once you find this you've isolated the problem. Go from there.
Just saw curly's post. Yeah, you could be cooking the battery, too. Any sulfer smells? Is the water level low? Something else to think about.


Thanks TwoBills, I'll try the Find the Short idea. If I can find the short, it might be very easy to fix. No "rotten eggs" smell that I noticed, and my sniffer is pretty good. The battery is sealed, is there a way to check the water level?
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: TGregg
Originally posted by: TwoBills
Sounds like an intermittent short. With the car shut off, pull the + battery terminal and put your meter in series between the battery lead and the battery terminal (set meter to read dc amps). You should be reading very little draw, maybe .25 or less. Open a door and watch the meter. The additional amps is the draw of the interior light. If your original reading is more than the draw of the interior lite, well you get the idea. Test it with all the lights and accessories, wiggle wires, unplug things until you see the original draw drop off. Once you find this you've isolated the problem. Go from there.
Just saw curly's post. Yeah, you could be cooking the battery, too. Any sulfer smells? Is the water level low? Something else to think about.


Thanks TwoBills, I'll try the Find the Short idea. If I can find the short, it might be very easy to fix. No "rotten eggs" smell that I noticed, and my sniffer is pretty good. The battery is sealed, is there a way to check the water level?
water level, lol..

methinks you probably shouldn't be opening any batteries. ;)
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Sounds like something is draining the battery excessively when the car is switched off.

Disconnect the battery and reconnect it in series with an ammeter. Leave everything in the car switched off, with the key out. The Ammeter should read less than about 0.05 A - anything more and something is being left on and draining your battery.
 

TGregg

Senior member
Dec 22, 2003
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Just got back from picking up the battery out of my car in the store parking lot and a brand new charger. When I removed the battery cables, there was some sort of clear slime (aka g@@k, but that word is restricted) on the lead terminals of both cables and on both battery terminals. Never saw anything like this, not sure what it is.

So I fired up the battery charger, and it says the battery is fully charged after a minute or two. According to my discount-price analog multimeter, it reads ~11.5 volts @ 86 F. I suspect that voltage is a bit low, and that the battery is fried.

A short that is capable of draining the battery in a few minutes should burn out a fuse or breaker, right? So I have to lean towards the Out Of Control Alternator theory.
 

Red

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2002
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The gunk is probably dialectic grease or vasaline which is used to prevent corrosion. Check the output of the battery when the car is completely shutoff and see if is drawing anything more than .05 amps.
 

TGregg

Senior member
Dec 22, 2003
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Originally posted by: Red
The gunk is probably dialectic grease or vasaline which is used to prevent corrosion. Check the output of the battery when the car is completely shutoff and see if is drawing anything more than .05 amps.

Yeah, that's the plan for tomorrow, check the draw. The gunk looked like glue when I removed the cables - it did that stretch thing for at least an inch so it's not Vaseline. I don't know the properties of dialectric grease, but I know regular grease doesn't do that either. I haven't dared to touch it to see if it's sticky, don't feel like getting acid burns on my fingers.
 

ThisIsMatt

Banned
Aug 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: TGreggA short that is capable of draining the battery in a few minutes should burn out a fuse or breaker, right? So I have to lean towards the Out Of Control Alternator theory.
That's my thinking. A short that bad would either blow a fuse or melt whatever wire was shorting, if not set your car on fire :D
 

Incorrect on the "A short that is capable of draining the battery in a few minutes should burn out a fuse or breaker, right? So I have to lean towards the Out Of Control Alternator theory." theory.

You can have a starter that's draining 100 amps, a alternator draining the same amount (both are not fused), you can also have a 50 amp drain that's being protected by a fuseable link which will not melt at those amps.
 

techfuzz

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2001
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Typically when my battery goes dead, the alernator will follow it to the graveyard shortly after. That's been my experience in the past. Have them test the alternator when you go to the auto store.

techfuzz
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: techfuzz
Typically when my battery goes dead, the alernator will follow it to the graveyard shortly after. That's been my experience in the past. Have them test the alternator when you go to the auto store.

techfuzz

yep
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: techfuzz
Typically when my battery goes dead, the alernator will follow it to the graveyard shortly after. That's been my experience in the past. Have them test the alternator when you go to the auto store.

techfuzz

Are you sure it wasn't your alternator that died first, and the new battery just hid the problem temporarily?

Originally posted by: Mark R
Sounds like something is draining the battery excessively when the car is switched off.

Disconnect the battery and reconnect it in series with an ammeter. Leave everything in the car switched off, with the key out. The Ammeter should read less than about 0.05 A - anything more and something is being left on and draining your battery.

Doubtful. If that were the case, then he'd have trouble initially starting the car after it had all night to drain; not after he drove to OfficeMax.

Regardless, as someone above said, take it to just about any auto parts store. They'll check your charging system for free.
 

Sounds like something is draining the battery excessively when the car is switched off.

Disconnect the battery and reconnect it in series with an ammeter. Leave everything in the car switched off, with the key out. The Ammeter should read less than about 0.05 A - anything more and something is being left on and draining your battery.



Doubtful. If that were the case, then he'd have trouble initially starting the car after it had all night to drain; not after he drove to OfficeMax.


This procedure is correct, what exactly are you trying to say Dr.Pizza ?
 

techfuzz

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2001
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Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: techfuzz
Typically when my battery goes dead, the alernator will follow it to the graveyard shortly after. That's been my experience in the past. Have them test the alternator when you go to the auto store.

techfuzz

Are you sure it wasn't your alternator that died first, and the new battery just hid the problem temporarily?
No I'm pretty sure, because the battery would die first and several months later the alternator would go belly up. It did happen the other way around though a couple times as well so I was well experienced with the two.

techfuzz
 

Quixfire

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: Mark R
Sounds like something is draining the battery excessively when the car is switched off.

Disconnect the battery and reconnect it in series with an ammeter. Leave everything in the car switched off, with the key out. The Ammeter should read less than about 0.05 A - anything more and something is being left on and draining your battery.
Just remember most ammeters are fused up to 10a, as a safety precaution use a 5-10 fuse to test the draw first. If the fuse blows, then don't connect your meter, if it doesn't then connect your meter and start pulling fuses to isolate the circuit.