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yact: Okay, I understand What Octane in Fuel is designed to prevent...

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We've had this discussion here before, so you may want to search for the thread. Been atleast 6 months though. However, due to said previous thread, I chuckled a bit to myself when I drove by a nearby gas station, which had posted on it's marquee, "Try our premium gasoline to get better gas mileage!". Poor bastards. Thanks to ATOT, I know the truth.
 
I've been putting the shell premium in my car.... (a 98 Dodge Neon)
I don't think it's desinged for it, but I've notice that with lower octane fuel I have trouble starting if I have less than a quarter tank...

I don't know why.

Any ideas? It'll just turn over but nver start. I've been stranded and had to go get a couple of gallons of fresh gas a couple of times because of this...

clogged fuel injector or filter maybe???
 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Higher octane gas contains less energy per gallon than lower octane gas. People often think it has more, but they're wrong.
I used to bring this up a lot in older "What is Octane" threads.

It is indeed true. Normally, the higher octane fuel would contain less energy than the lower octane. So not only would you be wasting your money, you would also be getting less MPG for your money. In effect, a double whammy.

However, it was brought to my attention that all gasoline made in the US is formulated be within 2% energy content of eachother. So I haven't been touting the energy content issue... Doing some light googling, but not finding anything right away.. but maybe my search strings suck.
 
hehe thats funny.

does she atleast know to not just hop it in and turn the key?

i run premium in my saab 9-5 but everyone ive heard/seen has said premium in that car or it wont like it.

cant notice to much of a difference, but i can notice a difference between brands.

i WONT touch BP (to many horror stories)

marathon is okay gas, Shell is the best in terms of mpg i get comparatively and other things.

bosses silverado had a knock after filling up w/ BP and Marathon 1/2 tank from each or so and when he put shell in it it went away.
 
Originally posted by: Eli


However, it was brought to my attention that all gasoline made in the US is formulated be within 2% energy content of eachother. Doing some light googling, but not finding anything right away.

It's close, but people are surprised to see that it's lower at all.
 
Originally posted by: EKKC
i have an nissan xterra. it only needs 87 octane gas. now for a supercharged version with more horsepower, that needs 93 octane. as claimed by the owners manual.

on another note. i filled up my tank yesterday, it was the first time it cost more than 40 dollars (in NYC). it was also raining like crazy as if God Himself was weeping and wailing because even He can't afford to fill up the tank on His Car.

It cost you a whole $40?!!?!!??! :Q

:roll:
 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Eli


However, it was brought to my attention that all gasoline made in the US is formulated be within 2% energy content of eachother. Doing some light googling, but not finding anything right away.

It's close, but people are surprised to see that it's lower at all.
Yeah, I guess so.

Incase anybody hasn't figured it out yet, it is your engine's design and the fuel's energy content that determines MPG.

Octane rating is not fundamentally related to energy content..... It is simply an arbitrary number designed to give you an idea of the fuel's autoignition point.
 
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: EKKC
i have an nissan xterra. it only needs 87 octane gas. now for a supercharged version with more horsepower, that needs 93 octane. as claimed by the owners manual.

on another note. i filled up my tank yesterday, it was the first time it cost more than 40 dollars (in NYC). it was also raining like crazy as if God Himself was weeping and wailing because even He can't afford to fill up the tank on His Car.

It cost you a whole $40?!!?!!??! :Q

:roll:
$40 is a lot to some people. Why don't you troll somewhere else tonight.
 
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: EKKC
i have an nissan xterra. it only needs 87 octane gas. now for a supercharged version with more horsepower, that needs 93 octane. as claimed by the owners manual.

on another note. i filled up my tank yesterday, it was the first time it cost more than 40 dollars (in NYC). it was also raining like crazy as if God Himself was weeping and wailing because even He can't afford to fill up the tank on His Car.

It cost you a whole $40?!!?!!??! :Q

:roll:
$40 is a lot to some people. Why don't you troll somewhere else tonight.

I'm not trolling, it amazes me how $40 is a lot to you.

That's £20, it costs me £45 to fill my tank, that's $90 to you.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Eli


However, it was brought to my attention that all gasoline made in the US is formulated be within 2% energy content of eachother. Doing some light googling, but not finding anything right away.

It's close, but people are surprised to see that it's lower at all.
Yeah, I guess so.

Incase anybody hasn't figured it out yet, it is your engine's design and the fuel's energy content that determines MPG.

Octane rating is not fundamentally related to energy content..... It is simply an arbitrary number designed to give you an idea of the fuel's autoignition point.

i was think about this and realised that my old man (who always fills up both tanks completely when he fills up, then works out his fuel consumption for what he used up), consistently saw/sees better mileage with his Prado, epecially when towing, with 98 RON as opposed to 91 RON...
 
A lot of cars and trucks made over the last twenty years do better with higher octane fuel. To a point. A lot of cars continuously adjust the timing by computer and will be right on the edge of pinging. This is the point of best fuel economy, but is annoying as hell and IMO not good for engine bearing and piston life. I have seen several pingers that spun bearings at about 50-70K, even though they were well serviced.

I had an 86 camaro that Would ping on 87 and the knock sensor (think of a microphone that listens for knocks) would kick the timing back (retard it) some certain number of degrees for so many seconds when it did. I think it was seven degrees. This was enough to make the car very sluggish. One of the known "hop up" tricks at the time was to run 92 or 94 octane and advance the timing 7-9 degrees over stock when you set it manually, and then you HAD to run 92-94 octane to keep it from pinging. In my car, it really woke it up, it was much quicker taking off and ran cooler too, and got about 1MPG better gas milage. In the colder weather I could run it 9 degrees advanced, in summer I had to back it down to 7 more than stock.

Twice while I had it, the kock sensor failed, and the car ran like crap. The test was kind of funny. Start the engine, take a screwdriver or wrench and tap the top of the engine. If it shook after you did it, the sensor was bad. The first time i did it, it almost killed the engine.

My 03 Dodge Ram is the same way, it runs a little better on 92 than 89 (the recommended octane). I went to a "full serve" station about a year ago and the moron put 87 in and it pinged for the first time ever. Milage is slightly better on the expensive gas too, but it's main benefit seems to be how smooth the motor runs.
 
It cost you a whole $40?!!?!!??! :Q

:roll:
$40 is a lot to some people. Why don't you troll somewhere else tonight.

I'm not trolling, it amazes me how $40 is a lot to you.

That's £20, it costs me £45 to fill my tank, that's $90 to you.[/quote]

As much as i hate to say it.. gas in US is still cheap compare to elsewhere.. I'm willing to pay up to 3.50 a gallon since i know my cousins in japan and taiwan are paying 2-3x that..

Eating in uk is also fricken expensive.. good luck there...
 
What has been said is mostly correct...but some of you are missing the point of why some cars say "Recommend Premium Gas".

I think everyone here will agree that in general running a car at a higher compression will produce a more efficient, more powerful car. A lot newer engines have the ECU monitoring the knock sensors...if nothing is knocking, it will adjust the timings to provide slightly higher compression. This in turn produces more power and potentially better gas mileage.

I believe this is actually true of a '97 Camry...it is definitely true of a '01 Camry. My '05 Tacoma also benefits from this. I still use 87 octane in my Tacoma because the power increase is minimal and the better gas mileage is negligible and has a lot more to do with how I drive. If I'm towing something though...I definitely put premium in as the engine is noticeably smoother...especially under hard accelleration. The reason why putting race fuel makes no difference in an engine like this is that the timings/compression will not adjust enough for it to make a difference (they are not going to design an engine to accept race fuel when almost no one is going to put it in).

Your friend will probably be fine with 87 octane...but he/she is not necessarily wrong for putting premium in his/her car (if the car is capable of adjusting timings enough to matter).
 
Originally posted by: PricklyPete
What has been said is mostly correct...but some of you are missing the point of why some cars say "Recommend Premium Gas".

I think everyone here will agree that in general running a car at a higher compression will produce a more efficient, more powerful car. A lot newer engines have the ECU monitoring the knock sensors...if nothing is knocking, it will adjust the timings to provide slightly higher compression. This in turn produces more power and potentially better gas mileage.

I believe this is actually true of a '97 Camry...it is definitely true of a '01 Camry. My '05 Tacoma also benefits from this. I still use 87 octane in my Tacoma because the power increase is minimal and the better gas mileage is negligible and has a lot more to do with how I drive. If I'm towing something though...I definitely put premium in as the engine is noticeably smoother...especially under hard accelleration. The reason why putting race fuel makes no difference in an engine like this is that the timings/compression will not adjust enough for it to make a difference (they are not going to design an engine to accept race fuel when almost no one is going to put it in).

Your friend will probably be fine with 87 octane...but he/she is not necessarily wrong for putting premium in his/her car (if the car is capable of adjusting timings enough to matter).
psssst.... The compression ratio is not related to the engines ignition timing. 😉
 
Hey, wut about if the reg gas is the same price as the "plus" or middle of the 3 types of gas. Would you put the plus in, or just the reg?
 
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
My girlfriend had a diesel car and she asked me to change the spark plugs. I just nodded and told her that they're alright.

They might be not alright: diesel engines might have a so called "incandescent plug" on the gallery to help with cold-weather/cold-engine starting.
 
Originally posted by: Calin
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
My girlfriend had a diesel car and she asked me to change the spark plugs. I just nodded and told her that they're alright.

They might be not alright: diesel engines might have a so called "incandescent plug" on the gallery to help with cold-weather/cold-engine starting.

yeah...so you don't turn the ignition to 'on' until the little light goes out...
 
Originally posted by: moomoo40moo
Hey, wut about if the reg gas is the same price as the "plus" or middle of the 3 types of gas. Would you put the plus in, or just the reg?

You're still supposed to put in the gas that is recommended for your car.

 
Originally posted by: moomoo40moo
Hey, wut about if the reg gas is the same price as the "plus" or middle of the 3 types of gas. Would you put the plus in, or just the reg?
That's a pretty good question.

Hmm... I might be tempted to use the next higher grade if there was no price premium.

I shouldn't say that though, since thats how the "Premium is better!" rumors start....
 
Some time ago (when CO98 gasoline was introduced) I used it several times (usually I was fueling from different places with different fuels). What I would like to say is that I felt the CO98 fuel as giving more power to the car (the car felt more powerful when switching to 98 octane and less powerful when switching back to 95 octane). I have no idea about the fuel consumption, as at those times I didn't made fuel consumption.
 
Originally posted by: dugweb

cliffs: (the questions)
1. how does the octane in fuel work?
2. what are the benifits (if any) to premium fuel over reg?

1. the octane in fuel is simply a measure of how much compression you can put the air/fuel mixture under before it spontaneously combusts (not something you want since it isn't a deisel).

2. premium fuel is only worth it if your car was designed to run on it. otherwise you are just throwing away money.
 
Originally posted by: Calin
Some time ago (when CO98 gasoline was introduced) I used it several times (usually I was fueling from different places with different fuels). What I would like to say is that I felt the CO98 fuel as giving more power to the car (the car felt more powerful when switching to 98 octane and less powerful when switching back to 95 octane). I have no idea about the fuel consumption, as at those times I didn't made fuel consumption.

i certainly find the benefit i see in my car (in terms of mileage) is greatest when it's under load, either with 4 people on board and running hard (140kmh is hard on a 1.6l 😉) or just me, aircon on and running hard (140kmh again)...

EDIT: and it's one hell of a fluke if it's happened just about everytime i've put in 98 RON, that i've got noticeably better mileage out of the tank...altho i can't explain or pretend to understand it 😱
 
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