YACT: Ok experts. 4WD/AWD vs FWD in bad road conditions on paved roads.

[PlatinumGold]

it's always been my opinion that 4wd/AWD vehicles have at best a questionable advantage over FWD on paved roads. in rain, sleet, ice or snow.

for stopping i know that 4wd/AWD has NO advantage over the same vehicle (tires, suspensions etc but fwd).

the only place where i think 4WD/AWD has a real advantage is where clearance becomes an issue.

what do you guys think?

 

[Mill]

I think it might better to modify this to be AWD, because 4WD is going to be used more when you lose traction or at lower speeds. I know you can use 4WD high at higher speeds, but unless you are in a truck or SUV you will be dealing with AWD.

I'll say this having owned FWD, RWD, and AWD. There is no comparison as far as weather related handling and the ability to feel more secure on the road.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Mill
I think it might better to modify this to be AWD, because 4WD is going to be used more when you lose traction or at lower speeds. I know you can use 4WD high at higher speeds, but unless you are in a truck or SUV you will be dealing with AWD.

I'll say this having owned FWD, RWD, and AWD. There is no comparison as far as weather related handling and the ability to feel more secure on the road.

so you are saying you FEEL safer with AWD than with FWD.

i've driven all three and really the only time i can tell the difference is, FWD / AWD/ 4WD are ALL WAAYYYY easier than RWD.

the only time where AWD/4WD have been better for me than FWD is in offroad type conditions.

 

[Vic]

In poor road conditions on paved roads, AWD owns them all. I guess you just have to drive it to know. To call the advantage questionable just boggles my mind.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: Mill
I think it might better to modify this to be AWD, because 4WD is going to be used more when you lose traction or at lower speeds. I know you can use 4WD high at higher speeds, but unless you are in a truck or SUV you will be dealing with AWD.

I'll say this having owned FWD, RWD, and AWD. There is no comparison as far as weather related handling and the ability to feel more secure on the road.

so you are saying you FEEL safer with AWD than with FWD.

i've driven all three and really the only time i can tell the difference is, FWD / AWD/ 4WD are ALL WAAYYYY easier than RWD.

the only time where AWD/4WD have been better for me than FWD is in offroad type conditions.

No, it's not that I feel safer, it's that the car tracks much better with AWD. I can easily go through the turns around here at a much higher rate of speed in the rain than I can in my Mustang, or in a friend's frontwheel drive car. There is no denying the advantage that AWD gives you in the rain(especially thunderstorms around here) and the occasional snow I encounter at my parent's house.

Trust me there is a huge difference in traction in the wet with AWD vs FWD.

 

[StageLeft]

I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

 

AWD is much better. It does handle different than FWD and RWD in adverse conditions though. Takes a little bit of getting used to.

AWD is the best in snow. Deep snow now takes on a different meaning. No more shoveling your car out or getting stuck.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

Yeah I definitely remember driving a good bit faster in my mom's subaru in the rain than I would have in another car. And I remember inducing slides for fun all the time in the snow as well

 

It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

I dunno. If most of the population drives trucks and SUV's that might not hold true.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: SammySon

It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

I dunno. If most of the population drives trucks and SUV's that might not hold true.

Well, most trucks and SUVS are two wheel drive I think. Definitely considering all of the non-truck vehicles on the road the majority of vehicles are two wheel drive!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

Yeah I definitely remember driving a good bit faster in my mom's subaru in the rain than I would have in another car. And I remember inducing slides for fun all the time in the snow as well

And of course FWD has the advantage over AWD in that it makes a car weigh less and consumes less gas.

 

[radioouman]

My problem with FWD/RWD in the snow is that you are dragging/pushing two other wheels around. Those added wheels causes resistance, so having 4WD or AWD allows you to get going much quicker due to the lack of resistance.
I've driven FWD and 4WD, and I prefer 4WD in the snow (along with nice knobby truck tires )

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

So you're saying that rain doesn't create traction issues?

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

So you're saying that rain doesn't create traction issues?

No enough of an issue to care about unless your complete clueless on how to drive or drive double the speed limit.

 

[PlatinumGold]

i've driven 4wd, rwd and fwd in snow, never driven awd, so my experience is not complete, but i think it's more psychological than real. fwd is just as good as 4wd. rwd is significantly worse than the other two on snow, ice or heavy rain.

i see see too many 4wd/awd vehicles stuck on the sides of the road and in my opinion, the reason is, those people allowed the PSYCHOLOGY to impact them and they chose not to drive safely.

i guess my complaint is more the lack of education among drivers than it is that 4wd isn't as good as fwd. i'm willing to bet that a lot of those 4wd/awd drivers that got stuck wouldn't have done so in a fwd vehicle because they would have been more careful in a fwd vehicle.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

So you're saying that rain doesn't create traction issues?

No enough of an issue to care about unless your complete clueless on how to drive or drive double the speed limit.

where do you live spencer?? In GA during the rainy season rain IS a factor. when you have sheets of water on the roads and you have sheets of water falling down and your window wipers can't keep up, rain is a factor, especially at high speeds.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've driven only FWD and AWD. I can say that in the south I'd be hard pressed to pay the extra money for AWD. In Canada it was great in the winters because accelerating from a stoplight with only two wheels going can be frustrating and slow. Clearly braking offers no advantages. Cornering does, but only if you feel like giving it gas around the corners (which you won't be doing if you're near limit of cornering). It's plenty easy to drive in bad weather with only two wheels giving power (most of the population lives this way of course).

Yeah, but then again you can't drive as fast in the rain with FWD and through the curves like AWD provides. Where I live there is not much traffic, so it is very easy to drive these roads at a little above the speed limit, whereas before I wouldn't have done so with my Explorer, the Mustang, or when I drive my friend's cars.

WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

So you're saying that rain doesn't create traction issues?

No enough of an issue to care about unless your complete clueless on how to drive or drive double the speed limit.

Vermont... ah that explains it. You get heavy rain, what, 3 times a year at most? Wet roads are certainly a traction issue, and there is no way you can say rain doesn't increase traffic accidents. it's not just the bad drivers either, but the people that don't maintain their cars, and those that don't realize you have to slow down in the rain.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Spencer278
WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

LOL! It rained 2 inches on Saturday evening here. There was standing water and accidents everywhere. You better believe that rain is a "bad road condition". And I was out there in my Subaru like it was a sunny day.

And I love FWD in the snow, especially the icy stuff

Nothing like sit-and-spin trying to start off up a hill... or how about torque understeer? w00t! Yep, just like AWD

I'm the first to admit that I would never buy an AWD car if I lived in Southern California. On dry pavement, AWD is a disadvantage, as it increases weight and drivetrain loss. But in the wet and the snow, AWD simply can't be beat for pure traction and stability under all circumstances (until you slam the brakes of course, but good drivers try to avoid that situation anyway).

 

[PCMarine]

Pardon my auto ignorance, but what is the difference between 4WD and AWD?

 

[Thegonagle]

If I never needed to drive in the snow, I would never consider it for a daily commuter car, because it adds weight, complexity, and friction to the drive train. All a good driver needs in the rain is good tires that resist hydroplaning and have a decent rubber compound that grips wet pavement securely. (Different tires, just like shoes, have differing abilities to keep their grip on wet pavement.) A well-tuned ABS braking system is nice as well. Unfortunately, I've found that all ABS is not created equal, which makes its benefits subject to debate.

But when the snow flies, AWD/4WD gives you a very nice, very definite advantage. The advantage is not related to ground clearance; it's related to traction between the tires and the ground. (You shouldn't get carried away though, because AWD/4WD won't help you stop faster, and it won't keep you from skidding off the road if you drive too fast for the conditions. In fact, I routinely see more vehicles with 4WD/AWD hit the ditch in bad weather than vehicles without, undoubtedly due to the driver's overconfidence in 4WD/AWD.)

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Spencer278
WTF rain is not a bad road condition. AWD is better when parked on ice or packed snow but on an open paved road with snow you can drive just fine with FWD. AWD is nice when accelerating because you get 4 wheels to kick up stuff instead of just 2.

LOL! It rained 2 inches on Saturday evening here. There was standing water and accidents everywhere. You better believe that rain is a "bad road condition". And I was out there in my Subaru like it was a sunny day.

And I love FWD in the snow, especially the icy stuff

Nothing like sit-and-spin trying to start off up a hill... or how about torque understeer? w00t! Yep, just like AWD

I'm the first to admit that I would never buy an AWD car if I lived in Southern California. On dry pavement, AWD is a disadvantage, as it increases weight and drivetrain loss. But in the wet and the snow, AWD simply can't be beat for pure traction and stability under all circumstances (until you slam the brakes of course, but good drivers try to avoid that situation anyway).

The thunderstorms down here can be a complete bitch because they will drop tons of water and it takes a bit for it to drain off.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: PCMarine
Pardon my auto ignorance, but what is the difference between 4WD and AWD?

AWD = full-time 4WD

It's much more complicated than that of course, but that's the simple answer.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle
But when the snow flies, AWD/4WD gives you a very nice, very definite advantage. (You shouldn't get carried away though, because AWD/4WD won't help you stop faster, and it won't keep you from skidding off the road if you drive too fast for the conditions. In fact, I routinely see more vehicles with 4WD/AWD hit the ditch in bad weather than vehicles without, undoubtedly due to the driver's overconfidence in 4WD/AWD.)

this i agree with. the difference isn't as significant as people believe. that's my biggest complaint. the marketing has people fooled into believing that 4wd/awd (oh those subaru commercials in particular piss me off) well help you overcome ANY bad road conditions.

it's just foolish. if a person drives with reasonable care, a fwd vehicle will get them thru 95% of bad conditions as well as a 4wd/awd vehicle will.