YACT: need some guidance - do we have a lemon?

[KillyKillall]

My fiance purchased a 2005 Mazda 3 in December of 2004 - meaning the car is now approximately 17 months old.

The first summer - June time frame of 2005 we had the following problem:

First Problem

When the car would get to about 40-50 mph, it would start jerking and not go faster than this. It felt as if the gears were basically slipping, but we could tell that wasn't happening. After taking it to the Mazda dealership - they could not reproduce it. On the way home it happened again, so we took it right back. FINALLY on the 4th time taking it in over the month, they believed us when it happned on a test drive with them. (FYI - on the 3rd trip in they blamed bad spark plugs and replaced them). This time they change the oxygen sensor and told us that we should have any more problems.

Second Problem

Here we are in late May and the EXACT same issue is happening again. They immediately changed the oxygen sensor again and told us we won't have more problems.

My question

Why would this happen repeatedly? Could something else be wrong that is driving the oxygen sensor to mess up and will continue to do so until it is fixed? I'm wondering if they don't really know the root cause.

Arizona's lemon law states that it must have 4 failures within 2 years or 24k miles whichever comes first. If this is going to happen every summer - then we need to get this nipped in the bud now.

Thank you in advance.

Update

Edited to remove EGR valve talk. I was wrong about that with the Mazda - only on my truck.

Also - found a site where others are having a similar problem:

http://moncom.net/moncommazdamsgs.asp?topictoview=9

 

[jlee]

The o2 sensor(s) goes in the exhaust system -- it's separate from the EGR valve. I had to replace both on my truck (Tacoma), but the only reason I knew they were bad was the CEL.

 

[AnonymouseUser]

Doesn't sound bad enough to even consider it being a lemon. Take it to another dealer if you have any more problems.

BTW, which engine is this?

 

[RCN]

I have no idea. What I would do is buy an aftermarket O2 sensor and hope that ecu programming is not the problem. Maybe the oem sensors just can't take the heat even though it would seem unlikely.


LOL at the people insulted by the gas cap thing though. I can't tell you how many cars I've seen where that is in fact the problem......

Also.....is your check engine light coming on? May be worth investing in a reader..........

 

[KillyKillall]

Originally posted by: RCN
I have no idea. What I would do is buy an aftermarket O2 sensor and hope that ecu programming is not the problem. Maybe the oem sensors just can't take the heat even though it would seem unlikely.


LOL at the people insulted by the gas cap thing though. I can't tell you how many cars I've seen where that is in fact the problem......

Also.....is your check engine light coming on? May be worth investing in a reader..........

Yes, the light is coming on.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: RCN
I have no idea. What I would do is buy an aftermarket O2 sensor and hope that ecu programming is not the problem. Maybe the oem sensors just can't take the heat even though it would seem unlikely.


LOL at the people insulted by the gas cap thing though. I can't tell you how many cars I've seen where that is in fact the problem......

Also.....is your check engine light coming on? May be worth investing in a reader..........

Yes, the light is coming on.

Drop by autozone or another place that will check the code for free. If it is indeed the O2 sensor I would switch to aftermarket. Does it stop when they change the sensor?


Also you might want to dig around and see if there are any service bulletins on the issue..

 

[KillyKillall]

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: RCN
I have no idea. What I would do is buy an aftermarket O2 sensor and hope that ecu programming is not the problem. Maybe the oem sensors just can't take the heat even though it would seem unlikely.


LOL at the people insulted by the gas cap thing though. I can't tell you how many cars I've seen where that is in fact the problem......

Also.....is your check engine light coming on? May be worth investing in a reader..........

Yes, the light is coming on.

Drop by autozone or another place that will check the code for free. If it is indeed the O2 sensor I would switch to aftermarket. Does it stop when they change the sensor?


Also you might want to dig around and see if there are any service bulletins on the issue..

Why would I switch to aftermarket when the car is under warranty, less than 2 years old, and should work properly from them?

Yes, the code stops after they change the sensor because they reset the code.

 

[Sluggo]

http://www.lemonlawbasics.com/arizonalemonlaws.htm

Oops, after re-reading your OP it seems you already know how the law would be applied.

 

[RCN]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: RCN

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: RCN
I have no idea. What I would do is buy an aftermarket O2 sensor and hope that ecu programming is not the problem. Maybe the oem sensors just can't take the heat even though it would seem unlikely.


LOL at the people insulted by the gas cap thing though. I can't tell you how many cars I've seen where that is in fact the problem......

Also.....is your check engine light coming on? May be worth investing in a reader..........

Yes, the light is coming on.

Drop by autozone or another place that will check the code for free. If it is indeed the O2 sensor I would switch to aftermarket. Does it stop when they change the sensor?


Also you might want to dig around and see if there are any service bulletins on the issue..

Why would I switch to aftermarket when the car is under warranty, less than 2 years old, and should work properly from them?

Yes, the code stops after they change the sensor because they reset the code.

I don't mean the code. I mean the symptoms....

Why.....because it might work, its simple, its cheap, and I don't have to deal with the dealership.

 

[Shawn]

Sounds like it's not getting spark. My car is having the same problem and I've narrowed it down to a bad coil pack. Not sure if the mazda 3 has a coil pack or a distrubutor but I'd be willing to bet money that, that is the problem. When one of the coils are bad it will sometimes not create enough power to fire the spark plug. It's a bitch to diagnose because sometimes it will work fine and other times it won't. When the spark plug doesn't fire the engine dumps the unburned fuel into the exhaust. This would cause damage to the O2 sensor and would eventually ruin the cat converter too if it is not repaired.

 

[Rastus]

You could try a fuel filter.

 

[jagec]

I still find it amazing that people buy new cars because they "don't want to deal with the unreliability" of a used car.

The dealership isn't very good at diagnosis, though...if the O2 sensor fails once and a replacement fixes it, OK, but if it fails twice, obviously something is CAUSING it to fail. Both times they changed the sensor, the car ran fine for a while, yes?

 

[KillyKillall]

Originally posted by: jagec
I still find it amazing that people buy new cars because they "don't want to deal with the unreliability" of a used car.

The dealership isn't very good at diagnosis, though...if the O2 sensor fails once and a replacement fixes it, OK, but if it fails twice, obviously something is CAUSING it to fail. Both times they changed the sensor, the car ran fine for a while, yes?

Yes...first replacement was 10 months ago. Second replacement took place today. We're picking it up tomorrow.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: jagec
I still find it amazing that people buy new cars because they "don't want to deal with the unreliability" of a used car.

The dealership isn't very good at diagnosis, though...if the O2 sensor fails once and a replacement fixes it, OK, but if it fails twice, obviously something is CAUSING it to fail. Both times they changed the sensor, the car ran fine for a while, yes?

Yes...first replacement was 10 months ago. Second replacement took place today. We're picking it up tomorrow.

Your O2 sensor is failing because the car is running too rich. Have them fix the problem, not the damage it's causing!

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: jagec
I still find it amazing that people buy new cars because they "don't want to deal with the unreliability" of a used car.

The dealership isn't very good at diagnosis, though...if the O2 sensor fails once and a replacement fixes it, OK, but if it fails twice, obviously something is CAUSING it to fail. Both times they changed the sensor, the car ran fine for a while, yes?

Yes...first replacement was 10 months ago. Second replacement took place today. We're picking it up tomorrow.

Your O2 sensor is failing because the car is running too rich. Have them fix the problem, not the damage it's causing!

Exactly. Fixing the damage over and over, not the cause, makes the car seem a lot worse than it actually is.

 

[db]

Any additives or other chems being put into gas tank (ie,lead), or sprayed into throttle body?
Any restriction in air intake (ie, air filter need replacing). Has anybody checked the cat for restrictions?

 

[Viperoni]

Originally posted by: Shawn

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: jagec
I still find it amazing that people buy new cars because they "don't want to deal with the unreliability" of a used car.

The dealership isn't very good at diagnosis, though...if the O2 sensor fails once and a replacement fixes it, OK, but if it fails twice, obviously something is CAUSING it to fail. Both times they changed the sensor, the car ran fine for a while, yes?

Yes...first replacement was 10 months ago. Second replacement took place today. We're picking it up tomorrow.

Your O2 sensor is failing because the car is running too rich. Have them fix the problem, not the damage it's causing!

o2 sensors won't die because the engine's running too rich.
They won't even die because it's running too lean, but *could* because of the extra heat that is usually associated with a lean condition. I'm betting it's heat that's killing it, if that's actually the problem.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Take it to another dealership, those clowns obviously don't want to fix the real problem. Keep documentation of all your service visits. If another dealership doesn't want to help you, get on the line with Mazda Corporate or whatever they have. Keep this documented, you may be able to get an extended warranty from Mazda but I'd consider using the Lemon Law if they can't permanently solve this.