YACT: For all you Mopar peeps

[Toastedlightly]

The truck is almost road worthy. I am still having engine problems. I have one question: for those of you with 318s, what timing do you get at idle WITH the vacuum advance attached? My engine pings at a little above idle, and I don't want to retard it too much. Also, w/o the vacuum advance, the timing is at ~-3*. Just want my truck to run!

 

[Toastedlightly]

nobody :-(

 

[BadNewsBears]

retard the ignition! pinging at idle is bad. EIther way to lean or its too far advanced. Put it at like 2 BTDC and call it good.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Retard it. At idle (750rpm) your engine timing should be at TDC w/o VA..

Edit: I really wouldn't worry about specs. Retard it till it works.

Edit thought you were advanced. Didn't see the "-"

 

[iamwiz82]

Did you rebuild that 318? I'm wondering if the intake plenum gasket is shot?

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Did you rebuild that 318? I'm wondering if the intake plenum gasket is shot?

I am getting proper vacuum on the intake

I am using the intake (not the carburator) for hte vacuum, so it may be drawing a wee bit much. I was wondering if retarding it that far would hurt it. W/O VA, it would be at ~ -5- -10*

 

[speed01]

Sounds like you may be off a tooth on the dizzy, retard it until it works.. it won't hurt it, it'll just put it back where it wants to be.

Speed

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: speed01
Sounds like you may be off a tooth on the dizzy, retard it until it works.. it won't hurt it, it'll just put it back where it wants to be.

Speed

now you are speaking some crazy language 😉

The dizzy = distributor?

 

[JasonSix78]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: speed01
Sounds like you may be off a tooth on the dizzy, retard it until it works.. it won't hurt it, it'll just put it back where it wants to be.

Speed

now you are speaking some crazy language 😉

The dizzy = distributor?

I think he means the distributor.

-Jason

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: speed01
Sounds like you may be off a tooth on the dizzy, retard it until it works.. it won't hurt it, it'll just put it back where it wants to be.

Speed

now you are speaking some crazy language 😉

The dizzy = distributor?

I think he means the distributor.

-Jason

So, if it were off by a tooth, how could I re-set it? Is it being off a tooth bad for it? (supposedly this engien was re-built before I got it by a student at a car-tech place) I don't want to get new head gaskets, so hmm....

 

[Pacfanweb]

Yes, he means the distributor. It doesn't matter where you install the distributor if you know how to wire it up, but putting it in like the factory does sure makes it easier.

Move it until it runs right. Worry about the actual timing later.

I generally set my timing before I ever start the engine, and just check it after I get it running to make sure nothing got moved.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Yes, he means the distributor. It doesn't matter where you install the distributor if you know how to wire it up, but putting it in like the factory does sure makes it easier.

Move it until it runs right. Worry about the actual timing later.

I generally set my timing before I ever start the engine, and just check it after I get it running to make sure nothing got moved.

I set the timing by the book, but when I apply a strong vacuum (from the intake, not the carb) to the vacuum advance, I get some backfire and pinging. So retarding it a lot won't damage my engine?

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: speed01
Sounds like you may be off a tooth on the dizzy, retard it until it works.. it won't hurt it, it'll just put it back where it wants to be.

Speed

now you are speaking some crazy language 😉

The dizzy = distributor?

I think he means the distributor.

-Jason

So, if it were off by a tooth, how could I re-set it? Is it being off a tooth bad for it? (supposedly this engien was re-built before I got it by a student at a car-tech place) I don't want to get new head gaskets, so hmm....

You take it back out and put it like it is supposed to be if you can't get enough movement to make things right. Or you move all the plug wires to the next plug (don't do this)

The dizzy on my Z is currently a tooth off. Luckily I have enough swing to bring it into time. I got tired of trying to get it to mesh with the oil pump.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: JasonSix78

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: speed01
Sounds like you may be off a tooth on the dizzy, retard it until it works.. it won't hurt it, it'll just put it back where it wants to be.

Speed

now you are speaking some crazy language 😉

The dizzy = distributor?

I think he means the distributor.

-Jason

So, if it were off by a tooth, how could I re-set it? Is it being off a tooth bad for it? (supposedly this engien was re-built before I got it by a student at a car-tech place) I don't want to get new head gaskets, so hmm....

You take it back out and put it like it is supposed to be if you can't get enough movement to make things right. Or you move all the plug wires to the next plug (don't do this)

The dizzy on my Z is currently a tooth off. Luckily I have enough swing to bring it into time. I got tired of trying to get it to mesh with the oil pump.

yea, I have plenty of swing in it (I love big engines), so I can tune her down. But it won't damage the engine? (I am really, REALLY leary about hurting it)

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Yes, he means the distributor. It doesn't matter where you install the distributor if you know how to wire it up, but putting it in like the factory does sure makes it easier.

Move it until it runs right. Worry about the actual timing later.

I generally set my timing before I ever start the engine, and just check it after I get it running to make sure nothing got moved.

I set the timing by the book, but when I apply a strong vacuum (from the intake, not the carb) to the vacuum advance, I get some backfire and pinging. So retarding it a lot won't damage my engine?

No, if your timing is so advanced that it's pinging and backfiring, you'll be saving the engine by retarding it. I think you're probably making a mistake applying manifold vacuum to the distributor. It may need ported vacuum on that car.
What are the factory specs for timing on this vehicle?

 

[BadNewsBears]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Did you rebuild that 318? I'm wondering if the intake plenum gasket is shot?

I am getting proper vacuum on the intake

I am using the intake (not the carburator) for hte vacuum, so it may be drawing a wee bit much. I was wondering if retarding it that far would hurt it. W/O VA, it would be at ~ -5- -10*

You want ported vacuum, off the carb.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Yes, he means the distributor. It doesn't matter where you install the distributor if you know how to wire it up, but putting it in like the factory does sure makes it easier.

Move it until it runs right. Worry about the actual timing later.

I generally set my timing before I ever start the engine, and just check it after I get it running to make sure nothing got moved.

I set the timing by the book, but when I apply a strong vacuum (from the intake, not the carb) to the vacuum advance, I get some backfire and pinging. So retarding it a lot won't damage my engine?

No, if your timing is so advanced that it's pinging and backfiring, you'll be saving the engine by retarding it. I think you're probably making a mistake applying manifold vacuum to the distributor. It may need ported vacuum on that car.
What are the factory specs for timing on this vehicle?

Factory timing (no VA applied) is 0*. It doesnt' say anything about the vacuum advance (which works in tandem with the mechanical to give me more power at high speeds). It is a dodge truck, 1974. No comptuer, no nothing. Only source of vacuum is off the intake.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: BadNewsBears

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Did you rebuild that 318? I'm wondering if the intake plenum gasket is shot?

I am getting proper vacuum on the intake

I am using the intake (not the carburator) for hte vacuum, so it may be drawing a wee bit much. I was wondering if retarding it that far would hurt it. W/O VA, it would be at ~ -5- -10*

You want ported vacuum, off the carb.

He bought a carb with no vac I believe.

 

[winr]

My 1965 Ford FE 352 V8 gets it vaccum from the manifold.

I thought most 318s used the vaccum from the carb.

You set the mechanical timing without applying vaccum right?

Also, have you tried driving it with vaccum from the carb?

NOTE: I type real slow......................😱



🙂

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: winr
My 1965 Ford FE 352 V8 gets it vaccum from the manifold.

I thought most 318s used the vaccum from the carb.

You set the mechanical timing without applying vaccum right?

Also, have you tried driving it with vaccum from the carb?

NOTE: I type real slow......................😱



🙂

I have no source on this carb. It is an old Holley (model 4160). I only have that option. Mechanical timing w/o VA was set, and applying VA leads to backfiring (too much advance).

Havn't tried driving it, but I can hear the bad idle at 800 RPM (idle speed) and 1500 RPM (choke speed)

 

[cavemanmoron]

what year engine
what ignition

start at TDC at idle with the vacum unhooked plugged.

My 318 is at about 10@ idle/6-700 rpm in park,no vacum.

http://fox302.com/index.pl?s=vf&user=ca...on&category=cavemanmoron&file=6f40.jpg

I am using electronic ignition,circa 1973 Valiant.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

You really need ported vac. You are hearing it at idle and lower RPMs because manifold vac is at max at idle.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: winr
My 1965 Ford FE 352 V8 gets it vaccum from the manifold.

I thought most 318s used the vaccum from the carb.

You set the mechanical timing without applying vaccum right?

Also, have you tried driving it with vaccum from the carb?

NOTE: I type real slow......................😱



🙂

I have no source on this carb. It is an old Holley (model 4160). I only have that option. Mechanical timing w/o VA was set, and applying VA leads to backfiring (too much advance).

Havn't tried driving it, but I can hear the bad idle at 800 RPM (idle speed) and 1500 RPM (choke speed)

Well, you might be screwed. I'm nearly sure you need ported vacuum, but if you don't have that option, you'll have to set it basically by trial and error, e.g., how high can you set it w/o pinging, but low enough that it'll still start okay.

Forget manifold vacuum, that'll put it as full advance at idle. And you'll lose the advance as you accelerate....the exact opposite of what you want.

A good alternative, if you're stuck with that carb, would be to get an aftermarket distributor that has mechanical advance only. Usually, they have about 20 degrees of centrifugal advance, so you'll still get some more timing as your rpm's increase.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Originally posted by: winr
My 1965 Ford FE 352 V8 gets it vaccum from the manifold.

I thought most 318s used the vaccum from the carb.

You set the mechanical timing without applying vaccum right?

Also, have you tried driving it with vaccum from the carb?

NOTE: I type real slow......................😱



🙂

I have no source on this carb. It is an old Holley (model 4160). I only have that option. Mechanical timing w/o VA was set, and applying VA leads to backfiring (too much advance).

Havn't tried driving it, but I can hear the bad idle at 800 RPM (idle speed) and 1500 RPM (choke speed)

Well, you might be screwed. I'm nearly sure you need ported vacuum, but if you don't have that option, you'll have to set it basically by trial and error, e.g., how high can you set it w/o pinging, but low enough that it'll still start okay.

Forget manifold vacuum, that'll put it as full advance at idle. And you'll lose the advance as you accelerate....the exact opposite of what you want.

A good alternative, if you're stuck with that carb, would be to get an aftermarket distributor that has mechanical advance only. Usually, they have about 20 degrees of centrifugal advance, so you'll still get some more timing as your rpm's increase.

Where else would it be pulled off? What would happen if I just went w/o VA?

 

[sharkeeper]

I am using electronic ignition,circa 1973 Valiant.

:thumbsup: