YACT: Does using electrical accessories use more fuel?

[dawks]

This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

 

[FoBoT]

not enough to matter

 

[MikeMike]

it does use more gas as the alternator, a/c all put extra resistence on the engine due to it having to spin the extra pulley.

 

[wasssup]

42.105263157894736842105263157895 MPG...good stuff.

 

[Pepsi90919]

if the energy were free, then we would've found a better way to harness it.

 

[alphatarget1]

Yes. I guess it adds up in the long run but honestly it isn't that bad.

Turning off ALL electrical accessories that could be turned off does save fuel, try it.

 

[bleuiko]

Of course not, didn't you know that energy can come from nowhere?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

No. The energy is free. Usually the law of conservation of energy applies, but when there are a lot of belts and pulleys and stuff it gets confused and gives you limitless free energy. That's why purpetual motion machines work so well.

Oh wait, they don't.

Of course it burns more fuel. 746 watts = 1 HP.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

It's a diesel btw.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
not enough to matter

True in most cases. Add a killer sound system, you might notice.

It's also moer fuel efficient to use AC than keep your windows open. not BSing, it's actually been tested. The additional drag from open windows creates more energy loss from drag than the energy required to turn on the AC.

Oh, tailgate down on a truck, ya ... wind tunnel tests also show that as worse than having your tail gate up.

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

It's a diesel btw.

Why don't we get more specific and state that gas is the improper term for car fuel even though everyone calls it gas. Anal princess

 

[dawks]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
if the energy were free, then we would've found a better way to harness it.

Yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
it does use more gas as the alternator, a/c all put extra resistence on the engine due to it having to spin the extra pulley.

Again, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

No. The energy is free. Usually the law of conservation of energy applies, but when there are a lot of belts and pulleys and stuff it gets confused and gives you limitless free energy. That's why purpetual motion machines work so well.

Oh wait, they don't.

Of course it burns more fuel. 746 watts = 1 HP.

And once more, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Automobiles wouldnt work without an alternator. The question is does demanding more energy from the generator increase the load on the accessory belt?

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
if the energy were free, then we would've found a better way to harness it.

Yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
it does use more gas as the alternator, a/c all put extra resistence on the engine due to it having to spin the extra pulley.

Again, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

No. The energy is free. Usually the law of conservation of energy applies, but when there are a lot of belts and pulleys and stuff it gets confused and gives you limitless free energy. That's why purpetual motion machines work so well.

Oh wait, they don't.

Of course it burns more fuel. 746 watts = 1 HP.

And once more, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Automobiles wouldnt work without an alternator. The question is does demanding more energy from the generator increase the load on the accessory belt?

YES

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

It's a diesel btw.

Why don't we get more specific and state that gas is the improper term for car fuel even though everyone calls it gas. Anal princess

Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

 

[DVK916]

Thing is with the AC, rolling down your windows causes you to use even more fuel than your AC.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
if the energy were free, then we would've found a better way to harness it.

Yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
it does use more gas as the alternator, a/c all put extra resistence on the engine due to it having to spin the extra pulley.

Again, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

No. The energy is free. Usually the law of conservation of energy applies, but when there are a lot of belts and pulleys and stuff it gets confused and gives you limitless free energy. That's why purpetual motion machines work so well.

Oh wait, they don't.

Of course it burns more fuel. 746 watts = 1 HP.

And once more, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Automobiles wouldnt work without an alternator. The question is does demanding more energy from the generator increase the load on the accessory belt?

Try building a simple circuit with a light bulb and a motor. Turn it with the circuit shorted and then turn it with the circuit closed.

 

[feelingshorter]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: dawks

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
if the energy were free, then we would've found a better way to harness it.

Yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
it does use more gas as the alternator, a/c all put extra resistence on the engine due to it having to spin the extra pulley.

Again, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: dawks
This really comes down to the generator (alternator) on the engine. So does demanding more energy from the generator increase resistance within the alternator, which would lead to more fuel useage? Or is the amount of electricity that the generator puts out related to how fast its spun, and only that fact?

This is related to that video posted a few weeks back about the guy driving 800miles on a single 19 gallon tank of gas, in a turbo V8 Audi.. link

No. The energy is free. Usually the law of conservation of energy applies, but when there are a lot of belts and pulleys and stuff it gets confused and gives you limitless free energy. That's why purpetual motion machines work so well.

Oh wait, they don't.

Of course it burns more fuel. 746 watts = 1 HP.

And once more, yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

Automobiles wouldnt work without an alternator. The question is does demanding more energy from the generator increase the load on the accessory belt?

Try building a simple circuit with a light bulb and a motor. Turn it with the circuit shorted and then turn it with the circuit closed.

thats a good idea...most people will understand electricity a lot better after doing that experiment with the light bulvf

 

[boggsie]

The AC has a clutch. When you are not engaging the compressor, the clutch disengages and 'freewheels'.

This is NOT true for the alternator/generator. When the crankshaft is turning the belt, the alternator/generator is turning and thus, electric current results.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: FoBoT
not enough to matter

True in most cases. Add a killer sound system, you might notice.

It's also moer fuel efficient to use AC than keep your windows open. not BSing, it's actually been tested. The additional drag from open windows creates more energy loss from drag than the energy required to turn on the AC.

Oh, tailgate down on a truck, ya ... wind tunnel tests also show that as worse than having your tail gate up.

Source? I hope you're not referring to the mythbusters episode in regard to AC vs. windows open. Fortunately, they revisited that myth. Actually, it is dependent upon the car's speed. At lower speeds (city speeds) air resistance really isn't that significant, compared to all the other sources of resistance (rolling, etc.)

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: FoBoT
not enough to matter

True in most cases. Add a killer sound system, you might notice.

It's also moer fuel efficient to use AC than keep your windows open. not BSing, it's actually been tested. The additional drag from open windows creates more energy loss from drag than the energy required to turn on the AC.

Oh, tailgate down on a truck, ya ... wind tunnel tests also show that as worse than having your tail gate up.

Source? I hope you're not referring to the mythbusters episode in regard to AC vs. windows open. Fortunately, they revisited that myth. Actually, it is dependent upon the car's speed. At lower speeds (city speeds) air resistance really isn't that significant, compared to all the other sources of resistance (rolling, etc.)

From elementary fluid mechanics = drag force is proportional to the cubic of the speed.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: dawks


Yes, but the alternator is always there, always putting resistence on the engine. The question is, does turning accessories on increase the amount of resistence.

That is not true, at least the way you're saying it. The alternator does not always put the same resistance on the engine. If you're not drawing any power from it (except for the minimal amount needed for the engine's electrical system), then it's hardly giving any resistance at all. As you increase the load, though, it acts as a brake and puts MUCH more load on the engine.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

that and diesel fuel contains more BTUs per volume

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: boggsie
The AC has a clutch. When you are not engaging the compressor, the clutch disengages and 'freewheels'.

This is NOT true for the alternator/generator. When the crankshaft is turning the belt, the alternator/generator is turning and thus, electric current results.

No. It does not always work that way. You can make an alternator freewheel too, simply by cutting the current draw.

If you don't have a circuit, it's not flowing any current. It's just freewheeling for the most part.

For instance, try taking a small electric motor with the wires disconnected and spin the shaft. The motor will freely spin and coast to a stop. Now short circuit the wires by connecting them to each other. The motor no longer freely spins and is a bitch to turn.

 

[boggsie]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: boggsie
The AC has a clutch. When you are not engaging the compressor, the clutch disengages and 'freewheels'.

This is NOT true for the alternator/generator. When the crankshaft is turning the belt, the alternator/generator is turning and thus, electric current results.

No. It does not always work that way. You can make an alternator freewheel too, simply by cutting the power draw.

If you don't have a circuit, it's not flowing any current. It's just freewheeling for the most part.

For instance, try taking a small electric motor with the wires disconnected and spin the shaft. The motor will freely spin and coast to a stop. Now short circuit the wires by connecting them to each other. The motor no longer freely spins and is a bitch to turn.

OK, I have a bicycle. On the bicycle, I have one of those wheel-driven generators. My wheel driven generator is always riding on the wheel. I turn the light on and off with a switch, but the generator is always dragging the wheel.

The difference of drag when the light switch is on vs. off is negligible as the generator wheel is always being driven by the bicycle tire. I believe it is accurate to apply this analogy to the automobile alternator/generator situation. Yes, it takes some effort to generate the field, but by and large not enough to impact fuel economy more than 2%.

<edit>
or I could be absolutly full of crap text

Using the drag of an alternator / generator as a brake ... who knew. Oh, you did.
</edit>

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: boggsie

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: boggsie
The AC has a clutch. When you are not engaging the compressor, the clutch disengages and 'freewheels'.

This is NOT true for the alternator/generator. When the crankshaft is turning the belt, the alternator/generator is turning and thus, electric current results.

No. It does not always work that way. You can make an alternator freewheel too, simply by cutting the power draw.

If you don't have a circuit, it's not flowing any current. It's just freewheeling for the most part.

For instance, try taking a small electric motor with the wires disconnected and spin the shaft. The motor will freely spin and coast to a stop. Now short circuit the wires by connecting them to each other. The motor no longer freely spins and is a bitch to turn.

OK, I have a bicycle. On the bicycle, I have one of those wheel-driven generators. My wheel driven generator is always riding on the wheel. I turn the light on and off with a switch, but the generator is always dragging the wheel.

The difference of drag when the light switch is on vs. off is negligible as the generator wheel is always being driven by the bicycle tire. I believe it is accurate to apply this analogy to the automobile alternator/generator situation. Yes, it takes some effort to generate the field, but by and large not enough to impact fuel economy more than 2%.

<edit>
or I could be absolutly full of crap text

Using the drag of an alternator / generator as a brake ... who knew. Oh, you did.
</edit>

Youre not taking into account that there is almost always a good amount of electrical activity going on in the car, whether or not youve turned anything you can turn on. What youre saying might be true for a bike, where the only thing is the light.

On the car, its got to charge the battery, run the fans, computers, lights etc -

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the alternator will drag more when electrical accessories are working. But whether or not the amount is significant is another question - usually, it isnt. The amount of energy required to use lights and accessories pales in comparison to the amount of energy required to run the car.

As far as using the generator as a brake, thats what hybrids do.

With all of that being said, there is a MASSIVE amount of energy being wasted by your car. All that heat created by the engine is completely wasted. As far as I know theres no simple way to convert heat energy directly to electrical energy. Would prob be a decent chunk if they do.

Sure, theres always turbochargers which in essence do harness that energy, but they use it to compound the problem more than anything else.