YACT: carbon fiber?

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
what i wonder is what are the safety ramifications? normal hood is made to bend or crumple in impact. whats that carbon fiber going to do? sheer off go through the windshield and take off your head?

Composites usually are able to handle forces in one direction only. The almost random nature of crashes would mean that it would be very easy to engineer a weak carbon fiber hood. When you need a composite to be strong univerally, you usually layer it in various directions in much the same way as plywood is layered along perpendicular grains.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: swtethan
It will be a s2000, im buying it in the summer. I'm just asking some questions on what i can do... not really looking to be uncomfortable in a stripped car because it will be a daily driver.

Can you fit a turbo in one of those? Do they already have one?

With the high compression ratios, turbos don't do much in S2000s. You'd have to shorten the stroke and lower the static compression ratio in order to shove more boosted fuel+air in there. That's the only chance you stand for good power without the bottle.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreakOr you could just go with the usual exhaust & intake setup, but you won't get much out of it and will only reduce low-end drive-ability.

Spoon did some work on an S2000 and showed very good results with intake and exhaust alone.

 

[bootymac]

CF is for extremes. If you're not going to do anything else, then don't even waste your time with CF. Oh, and not all performance modifications alter the reliability of your car :roll:

Sounds like we got a ricer-to-be on our hands. 🙁

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: swtethan
It will be a s2000, im buying it in the summer. I'm just asking some questions on what i can do... not really looking to be uncomfortable in a stripped car because it will be a daily driver.

Can you fit a turbo in one of those? Do they already have one?

They have both turbo kits and supercharger kits.

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
Well, the S2000's trunk lid is tiny, so not much weight will be saved there. Nor is the hood very large.

One thing to note: large rims slow cars down. Large rims=heavy=lots of rotating mass.

Ummm, you can get rims that are bigger then stock as well as lighter.

Mass != angular inertia

That's very true. I hate it when people talk about mass alone. It's all about mass and the radius of gyration.

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: everman
Add some Type-R stickers, you get 50HP each!

Red gives you a 5hp bonus!

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Why don't people ever paint their CF hoods, and what is the hammer test?

/carnewb

Part 'A' - Unpainted Hood = status symbol, AKA: Show off.

Part 'B' - Hammer Test = Vandalism, breaking something that isn't yours, like a CF hood on a show-offs car.

well.. my guess is metal dents much easier than cf. 😉 give it a good bang and if a dent shows..its metal!

CF doesn't dent. It just rips. Have you ever seen a hole in a boat? Fiberglass composites aren't all that different from carbon fiber composites. They fail in a brittle manner. Carbon fiber's stiffness is its downfall here: the energy of the hammer coming down is absorbed in too short of a distance, causing it to break quickly and almost cleanly. A metal hood would just dent because it's pliable.

 

[doze]

If you like the way a CF hood looks buy one, on the right car they look good.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: mordantmonkey
Maybe i don't know crap about cars, but wouldn't the $1000 be better put towards a real performance upgrade instead of shaving a few pounds of your car weight? I mean, if your aim is to actually go faster, rather than just looking fast.

Yeah, I think you can get pretty nice useful engine parts for $1000. CF hood would be one of the last steps after you got all the good stuff.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Why don't people ever paint their CF hoods, and what is the hammer test?

/carnewb

Part 'A' - Unpainted Hood = status symbol, AKA: Show off.

Part 'B' - Hammer Test = Vandalism, breaking something that isn't yours, like a CF hood on a show-offs car.

well.. my guess is metal dents much easier than cf. 😉 give it a good bang and if a dent shows..its metal!

CF doesn't dent. It just rips. Have you ever seen a hole in a boat? Fiberglass composites aren't all that different from carbon fiber composites. They fail in a brittle manner. Carbon fiber's stiffness is its downfall here: the energy of the hammer coming down is absorbed in too short of a distance, causing it to break quickly and almost cleanly. A metal hood would just dent because it's pliable.

Actually, carbon fiber is very brittle. It just shatters into little pieces. Fiberglass is better at holding together even when it is compromised. Fiberglass is very heavy though compared to CF.

I think malleable would be a better description of what metal is rather than pliable. 😉

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Any retarded performance modifications = rice.

This includes carbon fiber anything.

Idiotic comments. I learned the hard way too that Anandtech = Car noobs

 

[NaOH]

You go from 50lbs to about 15lbs easily with a carbon fiber hood. Plus, depending on your car, you can easily nab one for under $1K....

 

[NaOH]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
CF looks sweet, thats what its for - looks, and not weight reduction.

Another example...

 

[MysticLlama]

Am I allowed to get a CF hood now, or am I gonna be made fun of too?

Removed A/C Compressor
Removed 2 A/C Condensers
Removed A/C Drier
Removed All A/C Hoses
Removed back seats and rear deck, carpeted
Replaced all carpet with lightweight carpet
Removed trunk carpet
Replaced door panels with lighter weight ones
Removed center console
Replaced catalytic converter with test pipe (car is smog exempt)
Replaced muffler with lightweight sport muffler
Replaced stock seats with Recaro fixed buckets (saves about 25lbs each)
Upgraded brakes, same weight for calipers/discs, much more power
Lightweight BBS 3pc wheels
Lightweight starter

Car weighs in the high 2400lb range with 1/2 tank of gas.

Still need to replace the battery, just haven't got to it, that'll save another 20lbs.

After that it's mostly fiberglass and CF as my options.

I would probably paint it eventually, car is dark blue.

So if I can get away with CF, then the OP has a nice list of what to do first now. 😉


Edit: I don't consider the car completely gutted, I still have carpet, a stereo that isn't too heavy, door panels, nice seats, etc.

 

[mwmorph]

CF hoods do shave off weight butthe S200 hood isnt all that heavy. On something with a big heavy hood like MY SC300, It shaves a little more than 40lbs average(The hood is ~60 some lbs, cf would weigh ~15-20)

Nto worth it though too much $$$, too little gain. Hood+trunk+paint(so its not complete rice) is a lot of money. Pain will cost a bit*h for a proper factory quality paint job(DONT GO TO MACCO)

As for larger wheels, skinner tires destroy ride quality no point. Get to a point of moderation. My car can fit 20"s fine but I do 17s(Supra gen 4 Twin Turbo Wheels). faster acceleration and more oem, non rice/gangster look.

Tested by motortrend
Brabus K8 E55(formerly AMG)
530 bhp(crank)
572 lb-ft
8.5Jx19 front and 9.5Jx19 rear(yes they're lighter according to Brabus)
0-60 4.3
1/4 mile 12.5

E55AMG

469 bhp(crank)
516 lb-ft
8.0J x 18 front and 9.0J x 18 rear
0-60 4.2
1/4 mile 12.4

Its a combination of rotational inertia and percentage of weight distribution at what point.

Brabus K8 E55
255/35 ZR 19 in front and 285/30 ZR 19 Rear
(25.705882352941176470588235294118" tire diameter total)

E55 AMG
245/40ZR-18 Front 275/35ZR-18 rear
(25.549019607843137254901960784314" diameter total)

The brabus wheels are lighter by 2-3 lbs.

The Brabus takes 61 more hp, 56tq to go .1 second slower. Stock, it would be a lot more. Thats the point. It's not apple to apples. The weight of the cars themselves are equal(the power is from a pully change so the stock AMG supercharger will pump more boost).


Race cars run 14s all the time. 24 hours at lemans, racecars usually run 14s , sometimes i think either 13s or 15s. The bigger the wheel, the more weight at the outer edges, the more inertia created, the longer your stops and slower your accelerations. Nascar uses 14s or 15s. The reason peopel cant go smaller is because the brakes have to fit somewhere...

I can have a 15lb 20" and a 17lb 17" and I'll go for the 17" every time unless I have brakes too big to fit in tthe 17s. Most mass is on the outer edge. Larger diameter=larger circumfrence. Larger circumference=larger surface area. Larger surface area=larger volume to be covered by metal. Larger volume on the outside edges of a wheel=larger rotational inetia. Larger rotational inertia=more resistance to slow down or speed up.Physics 101. Newton's 3 laws of physics.

 

[LordMorpheus]

Carbon fiber hoods are way light - I picked one up in a shop and almost nailed myself in the chin because it didn't weight anything.

Hood and trunk, you could save 20-50 pounds, depending on how much material you are replacing. It's just a guess.

You are also taking weight out of the top of the car, so the COG should move down a tad. s2000 is a good ride, congrats.

All this said, if it was my car I wouldn't bother.

 

[jlbenedict]

Originally posted by: everman
Add some Type-R stickers, you get 50HP each!

thank god there is nobody here at work today..
I almost caught myself laughing out fvcking loud.. but I held back 🙂

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Why don't people ever paint their CF hoods, and what is the hammer test?

/carnewb

Part 'A' - Unpainted Hood = status symbol, AKA: Show off.

Part 'B' - Hammer Test = Vandalism, breaking something that isn't yours, like a CF hood on a show-offs car.

Not quite. Give it a good bang and if it shatters, then it really was carbon fiber.

actually, you'd just get fractures around where you hit it, it wouldn't shatter like a pane of glass, but it's still unrepairable.

well.. my guess is metal dents much easier than cf. 😉 give it a good bang and if a dent shows..its metal!

 

[essasin]

Don't get a carbon fiber hood unless you have the "go" to match.

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: MysticLlama
Am I allowed to get a CF hood now, or am I gonna be made fun of too?

Do you race in regulated competition, or just cruise around on public roads?

If it's just for public roads, prepare to be mocked. It's complete tard-dom to race on public streets.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: Suture
The amount of misinformation and assumptions in this thread is apalling. Head over to www.s2ki.com for S2000-specific answers.

True the website has S2000 specific answers, but there are also fairly obvious and general answers, eg: (from a thread at that forum):
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=163143

The spare tire, jack and tool kit is around 30-lbs.
Tires/wheels is the first place I'd start if you're serious about losing weight.
The battery weight can be shaved (see s2ki.com marketplace), you can replace the seats with 12-lb racing seats, etc.
A titanium dual can drop another 35-40-lbs off the OEM system (52-lbs) or for even bigger weight gains, go with a single Ti exhaust.
I replaced my mirrors (fairly heavy...about 5-lbs each) and steering wheel (that air bag assembly is heavy) with a carbon fiber D-wheel.
Changing the OEM air box with an AEM, INJEN, etc. can save a few more lbs as well.
Then again, you're talking $2-3K if you add all this up (wheels/tires, cf mirrors, cf steering wheel, intake, exhaust, etc).

Bolded what I already mentioned and they are general (and relatively obvious) weight reduction tips.
The rest is more S2000 specific.

Be aware that replacing an airbag steering wheel with a non-airbag wheel is illegal and will very likely void your personal injury insurance if you are injured in an automobile accident.

ZV

 

[MysticLlama]

Originally posted by: Nyati13

Originally posted by: MysticLlama
Am I allowed to get a CF hood now, or am I gonna be made fun of too?

Do you race in regulated competition, or just cruise around on public roads?

If it's just for public roads, prepare to be mocked. It's complete tard-dom to race on public streets.

Track, but not regulated competition except maybe an occasional autocross. Just open lapping days. Drive it on the weekends and such, but don't race anyone. There are plenty of nice roads with 55mph speed limits and 25-30mph corners that offer plenty of fun for an older lightened sports car without breaking the speed limit.

 

[NaOH]

autox ftw

 

[wheresmybacon]

I like the guys with carbon fiber hoods that also have 300lbs of amps, enclosures, and speakers in the trunk.

good thinking

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Why don't people ever paint their CF hoods, and what is the hammer test?

/carnewb

Part 'A' - Unpainted Hood = status symbol, AKA: Show off.

Part 'B' - Hammer Test = Vandalism, breaking something that isn't yours, like a CF hood on a show-offs car.

well.. my guess is metal dents much easier than cf. 😉 give it a good bang and if a dent shows..its metal!

CF doesn't dent. It just rips. Have you ever seen a hole in a boat? Fiberglass composites aren't all that different from carbon fiber composites. They fail in a brittle manner. Carbon fiber's stiffness is its downfall here: the energy of the hammer coming down is absorbed in too short of a distance, causing it to break quickly and almost cleanly. A metal hood would just dent because it's pliable.

Actually, carbon fiber is very brittle. It just shatters into little pieces. Fiberglass is better at holding together even when it is compromised. Fiberglass is very heavy though compared to CF.

I think malleable would be a better description of what metal is rather than pliable. 😉

In mechanical engineering we always just call it ductile, but there's a slight difference between malleable and ductile if you really want to get anal. ("Ductile" is used when you're talking about the intrinsic material property without regard to a specific manufacturing process, so that's why I like to use it more often.) I was trying my hand at speaking layman's terms, so I figured "pliable" would be more appropriate. This isn't Highly Techincal, and I've found that the average car nut isn't exactly a geek.