YACT: Car having starting trouble and other issues

[alexjohnson16]

Car is the 1.5 four cylinder.

Car won't turn over at all when tried to start alone, but if its being jumped, it starts up immediately.

While running, power is intermittent. The engine always stays running and has no problems, but the electrical is screwed up.

Tach and speedometer randomly come in and out (while just driving they are random, they don't work at all if I use something else ie: turn signal, brakes, etc.).

Alternator?

BUMP: Took battery to Autozone, they said it was bad. Replaced battery, car worked good for about 30 hours (low driving, maybe 12 miles total?), started good every time, etc. Just came home from my friends house and same symptoms started happening (electrical stuff started failing, lights, radio, tach., speedometer, etc.) and it died after the maybe 1.5 mile drive to my house and now when I turn the key it doesn't even sound like the car is attempting to start. Me and my brother have pulled the alternator (it tested good at Autozone) but nothing else. The battery is brand new. What could this be?

 

[zoiks]

Is it a Honda?

oh ok. just saw its a protege.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Take it to autozone and have them test the battery and alternator.

 

[funboy6942]

Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT. If not, you have one hell of an electrical problem, start with blown fuses, and go from there, but be prepaired for hell.

Pray your alt is the problem

 

[alexjohnson16]

Just because someone upstairs loves me, my alternator is fine.

Took it to Autozone and passed. Next step I guess is to take the battery out and get it checked (because I'm the idiot that didn't get it checked with the alternator).

 

[alexjohnson16]

TO THE TOP! Help ME!

 

[Auggie]

Sounds fishy. Get another opinion on the alternator.

When you use jumper cables and jump off another vehicle, does the starter sound exactly like it usually did before the problems began? My thinking is that it's got to be either the alternator or the starter system, but the starter sounds like it's fine if it starts up strong with a jump. Throw in there the dimming lights (obvious indicator of low battery power), and it seems like it is probably something with the alternator.

Is it possible that something could affect the starter motor to where it would need to draw significantly more juice to turn over? That might give you the dimming lights/low power problem. /shrug

I hate old cars. Which sucks because I'm still in school and on my own financially, so that's exactly what my car is.

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: alexjohnson16
TO THE TOP! Help ME!

Did you do what I said to do? That is one for sure way, no ifs, ands, or buts if your alt is the problem or not because once the cable is removed if your car dies the alt is not working at all.

With how you are describing it it sounds as if your car is running on what little bit is left in the battery which is just barely enough to keep the car running, and would cause all your electricals to act funky because of the low voltage is not enough to allow them to operate properly.

And again, if you remove the cable and the car still runs then you have an electrical problem, there isnt a person on here that can help you, it now becomes HELL, and I mean HELL, for you have to trace down each and every wire looking for the one that is shorting out, grounding out, disconnected, or what have you, and there is not a mechanic in the world that likes to do that kind of work, and it will cost you a arm and a leg in shop time for them to trace it down for there are thousands of wires in your car.

The only thing I can say at that point is PRAY you have a blown fuse either under the dash, or under the hood, that is tripping the computer out from lack of communications from what ever sensor that blown circuit was telling the computer it was doing, and if all your fuses are good, sorry to say this but, your fvcked. You have a wire problem or a computer problem, and between the both it will prolly cost the same for computer for the car are not cheap, unless you go to the junk yard, and then you have to be sure you get the right one for your car.

 

[DrPizza]

weird... I had the exact same symptoms a year ago. Bought a new battery, and it was fine... for a few days. Checked the alternator - it was fine also. But, after a few days, it was completely dead again. Tried to charge the new battery, but it wouldn't take a charge. Returned the battery - sure enough, they tested it and the new battery was bad. (I wonder if something in the car made the battery go bad??! That doesn't make much sense though). 3rd battery: gave the car to my son; "have fun." There was a cascade of problems... a couple of bad fuses and most importantly:

The grounding wire from the battery!

When you jumped the car, did you connect to both terminals on the battery? Or, did you connect to the positive terminal of the battery and to the frame of the vehicle (like you're supposed to when jumping?) That would explain your problem and how jumping it works just fine..

Good luck on finding the problem. Hint: if your charging system checks out okay, and your battery is okay, then something else is draining the battery. Why not pull every fuse in the vehicle when it's off, and using a multimeter that can handle the current, simply use your multimeter in place of the fuse to check for the circuit that's actually drawing current when your car is turned off (besides those that should be drawing a bit of current: clock, alarm, remote entry/start, etc.)

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: alexjohnson16
TO THE TOP! Help ME!

Did you do what I said to do? That is one for sure way, no ifs, ands, or buts if your alt is the problem or not because once the cable is removed if your car dies the alt is not working at all.

With how you are describing it it sounds as if your car is running on what little bit is left in the battery which is just barely enough to keep the car running, and would cause all your electricals to act funky because of the low voltage is not enough to allow them to operate properly.

And again, if you remove the cable and the car still runs then you have an electrical problem, there isnt a person on here that can help you, it now becomes HELL, and I mean HELL, for you have to trace down each and every wire looking for the one that is shorting out, grounding out, disconnected, or what have you, and there is not a mechanic in the world that likes to do that kind of work, and it will cost you a arm and a leg in shop time for them to trace it down for there are thousands of wires in your car.

The only thing I can say at that point is PRAY you have a blown fuse either under the dash, or under the hood, that is tripping the computer out from lack of communications from what ever sensor that blown circuit was telling the computer it was doing, and if all your fuses are good, sorry to say this but, your fvcked. You have a wire problem or a computer problem, and between the both it will prolly cost the same for computer for the car are not cheap, unless you go to the junk yard, and then you have to be sure you get the right one for your car.

This is the best advice...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: funboy42
Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT. If not, you have one hell of an electrical problem, start with blown fuses, and go from there, but be prepaired for hell.

Pray your alt is the problem

DO NOT DO THIS!

It is NOT an acceptable method for testing the alternator on a modern car and it is possible to ruin the engine/transmission control computers by doing this on a modern car (it's a very, VERY small possibility, but it's there). This worked back in the 1950's, but it's not a good idea today.

It sounds to me like you have a pretty severe short somewhere in the system that is draining the battery completely. If the batter goes completely flat, it can affect other systems as well. Since the car worked fine with the new battery for a while, the issue is connected to the battery getting discharged. Find out what's draining your battery and that's your problem. Get a second opinion on the alternator first though. It's the easiest of the possible repairs.

ZV

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: funboy42
Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT. If not, you have one hell of an electrical problem, start with blown fuses, and go from there, but be prepaired for hell.

Pray your alt is the problem

DO NOT DO THIS!

It is NOT an acceptable method for testing the alternator on a modern car and it is possible to ruin the engine/transmission control computers by doing this on a modern car (it's a very, VERY small possibility, but it's there). This worked back in the 1950's, but it's not a good idea today.

It sounds to me like you have a pretty severe short somewhere in the system that is draining the battery completely. If the batter goes completely flat, it can affect other systems as well. Since the car worked fine with the new battery for a while, the issue is connected to the battery getting discharged. Find out what's draining your battery and that's your problem. Get a second opinion on the alternator first though. It's the easiest of the possible repairs.

ZV

:thumbsup:
(IIRC, I think it was Zenmervolt who originally suggested the ground cable to me, which turned out to be part of my problem.)

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: funboy42
Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT. If not, you have one hell of an electrical problem, start with blown fuses, and go from there, but be prepaired for hell.

Pray your alt is the problem

DO NOT DO THIS!

It is NOT an acceptable method for testing the alternator on a modern car and it is possible to ruin the engine/transmission control computers by doing this on a modern car (it's a very, VERY small possibility, but it's there). This worked back in the 1950's, but it's not a good idea today.

It sounds to me like you have a pretty severe short somewhere in the system that is draining the battery completely. If the batter goes completely flat, it can affect other systems as well. Since the car worked fine with the new battery for a while, the issue is connected to the battery getting discharged. Find out what's draining your battery and that's your problem. Get a second opinion on the alternator first though. It's the easiest of the possible repairs.

ZV

Well like you said its a very very small chance it would happen, I have never had it happen ever myself, on any car I have owned or shop I have worked at, but to each their own.

OH and I have to edit, it is the negative cable you remove, not the positive, the negative, sorry combination of drugs and brain fart. If you so chose brave enough to remove the cable.

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: funboy42
Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT.

I dunno about that. Had both batteries die on my ram 2500. Jump started it, but the instant I tried to use anything electrical (radio, lights, even turn signals), the engine would die. You would think that a diesel of all engines would be able to run off just the alternator, but it didn't.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Battery terminals or battery cables.

 

[alexjohnson16]

I think my brother had the cable off hte battery the other day and it ran, so I don't think its the alternator.

I don't even know if I want to mess with this.

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: alexjohnson16
I think my brother had the cable off hte battery the other day and it ran, so I don't think its the alternator.

I don't even know if I want to mess with this.

Yeah, if it ran, the alt is working then, you got a short somewhere in there, enough to drain the battery, but not pop a fuse.

Things you can do:
1st check again like I said under the hood and under the dash and each and every fuse and breaker to make sure its not popped or burnt.

2nd, charge your battery back up and remove a fuse for each of the systems each night till you pull one and the next day, or few days, the battery doesn't go dead. If you have the fuse pulled and the battery doesnt go dead that means somewhere in that part of the system is your problem, time to figure out what is running off that fuse block and track down your short.

3rd, say fvck it, charge up the battery really good and go trade it in on another car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: funboy42
Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT. If not, you have one hell of an electrical problem, start with blown fuses, and go from there, but be prepaired for hell.

Pray your alt is the problem

DO NOT DO THIS!

It is NOT an acceptable method for testing the alternator on a modern car and it is possible to ruin the engine/transmission control computers by doing this on a modern car (it's a very, VERY small possibility, but it's there). This worked back in the 1950's, but it's not a good idea today.

It sounds to me like you have a pretty severe short somewhere in the system that is draining the battery completely. If the batter goes completely flat, it can affect other systems as well. Since the car worked fine with the new battery for a while, the issue is connected to the battery getting discharged. Find out what's draining your battery and that's your problem. Get a second opinion on the alternator first though. It's the easiest of the possible repairs.

ZV

Well like you said its a very very small chance it would happen, I have never had it happen ever myself, on any car I have owned or shop I have worked at, but to each their own.

It's still a risk that seems silly to open ones-self to. And some cars ECUs will detect a missing battery and shut down on purpose even if the alternator is putting out sufficient current.

Basically I see it as a potential risk that ultimately won't really prove anything.

ZV

 

[nweaver]

Bad ground/battery leads, or voltage regulator. I have seen both cause these symptoms.

 

[teckmaster]

both my parents cars have had the same problem in the past year. they had both the battery and alternator replaced and both vehicles are running fine

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: drnickriviera

Originally posted by: funboy42
Id say ALT is bad and it is just barely running on what is left in the battery. Can always start it, remove the pos cable from the battery and if the engine dies right away then it is for sure your ALT.

I dunno about that. Had both batteries die on my ram 2500. Jump started it, but the instant I tried to use anything electrical (radio, lights, even turn signals), the engine would die. You would think that a diesel of all engines would be able to run off just the alternator, but it didn't.

they have some sort of dead man switch for electrical problems that kills the fuel pump...

 

[DarkThinker]

Back when I was in high school I had a 1995 Neon that had the same exact issue, the battery wasn't the issue and neither the alternator, I totaled the car before I could figure what was going on, and thank God I did, the car was driving me crazy, I couldn't figure how fast I was going, engine started to make weird noise, and lights were flickering along with the speedometer, it was a nightmare!

 

[alexjohnson16]

All the fuses have been checked and in working condition.

 

[Tsaico]

I vote for the short also. That sort of thing can cause similar behavior.

 

[91TTZ]

Sounds like a short to me.