YACT: Automatic Transmission Cooler (Poll added)

[Jeff7181]

I put one in my car a long time ago when I replaced the transmission with one build pretty stout, and a torque converter with a higher stall. It already had a built in cooler in the radiator like most, so I added another one inline. I installed it BEFORE the existing one, because I know that it's not only a cooler, but a warmer for winter months since a cold transmission isn't any better than a hot one. I've seen it installed that way on my high school teacher's race car, my neighbor's '68 Chevelle, my friend's '77 Firebird, and my other friend's '92 Mustang.

Just today I bought a transmission cooler for my dad's new car, a '96 Intrepid which is known for having transmission problems mostly due to overheating. The instructions say to install it AFTER the existing one for maximum cooling. Why would they recommend this when everything else I've been told or read or seen has an additional cooler installed BEFORE the existing one so it doesn't take a lot longer for the transmission to warm up in cold weather?

 

[NutBucket]

My guess would be that if you install before its possible that the stock cooler would heat it up more rather then cool it more.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
My guess would be that if you install before its possible that the stock cooler would heat it up more rather then cool it more.

Well it wouldn't get any hotter than the radiator... and it's not the engine that's overheating in these cars, it's just the transmission. Apparently Dodge didn't design the cooler with the ability to properly cool down the fluid. If the fluid coming into the cooler has already been cooled down considerably, it shouldn't have a problem.

At least... that's my thinking based on what I was taught at the University of Northwestern-Ohio

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: NutBucket
My guess would be that if you install before its possible that the stock cooler would heat it up more rather then cool it more.

Well it wouldn't get any hotter than the radiator... and it's not the engine that's overheating in these cars, it's just the transmission. Apparently Dodge didn't design the cooler with the ability to properly cool down the fluid. If the fluid coming into the cooler has already been cooled down considerably, it shouldn't have a problem.

At least... that's my thinking based on what I was taught at the University of Northwestern-Ohio

But the stock cooler can only cool down as much as water temp. The aftermarket cooler will obviously do better then that. So it seems that by installing it before the stock on you may be decreasing its usefulness.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: NutBucket
My guess would be that if you install before its possible that the stock cooler would heat it up more rather then cool it more.

Well it wouldn't get any hotter than the radiator... and it's not the engine that's overheating in these cars, it's just the transmission. Apparently Dodge didn't design the cooler with the ability to properly cool down the fluid. If the fluid coming into the cooler has already been cooled down considerably, it shouldn't have a problem.

At least... that's my thinking based on what I was taught at the University of Northwestern-Ohio

But the stock cooler can only cool down as much as water temp. The aftermarket cooler will obviously do better then that. So it seems that by installing it before the stock on you may be decreasing its usefulness.

Right, but I live in Michigan, and when it's 0 degrees F outside it's going to take quite a bit longer for the transmission fluid to warm up when it's starting out at 0, and being cooled by 0 degree F air. A stone cold transmission isn't much better than a hot as hell transmission

I could be wrong though... and that would mean my instructors at college are also wrong. But I know that sometimes "theories" about how things work best are different from what actually goes on in the real world... which is why I'm looking for Roger's input since he has experience as a tech.

 

[Jeff7181]

More input from anyone?

 

[JC]

I know that it's not only a cooler, but a warmer for winter months since a cold transmission isn't any better than a hot one.

I agree with you completely here. The cooler in the rad is also known as a 'regulator', since it's designed to keep the ATF close to operating temp, not cool it as much as possible.


JC

 

[thedarkwolf]

My van only has an external cooler and it came that way from the factory.

 

[flyfish]

Your ATF will be just fine at 0F. Most ATF has pour point -30F or much less.
If you are really worried about it...get a B&M cooler.

B&M's SuperCooler low pressure drop coolers reduce the risk of lube system failure. A controlled amount of ATF is allowed to bypass the stacked plate core, passing through a self-regulating orifice which monitors resistance to flow. Controlled by viscosity, the thicker ATF is returned directly to lube through two open bypass openings in the stacked plate core. As operating temperatures increase, more of the ATF flow is directed through the core. Resulting in a highly efficient cooling technology that combines improved protection against lube system failure with the required levels of optimal heat transfer.

 

[Jeff7181]

The pour point isn't what I'm concerned about. What I'm concerned about is proper operation of the transmission. As I said, too cold isn't much better than too hot.
That B&M one sounds like a good idea... but as I said, I've already purchased a cooler, I was just surprised how the instructions say to install it, so I wanted people's opinion.

 

[Pepsi90919]

i don't know where you're reading 'before' the radiator cooler, i have never, ever seen that. it's always after the radiator cooler, because if you put it before then the ATF is probably going to heat up again in the radiator since it's probably warmer.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
i don't know where you're reading 'before' the radiator cooler, i have never, ever seen that. it's always after the radiator cooler, because if you put it before then the ATF is probably going to heat up again in the radiator since it's probably warmer.

Did you read the whole post with the reasoning behind it?

 

[Twerpzilla]

Dude, your making this way to complicated....the stock cooler doesent sufficently cool, the ATF coming out of it is to hot. So send the too hot ATF throught the aftermarket cooler to further reduce the temp. No big deal, really.

As far as the cold ATF in the winter, that can be a real problem. I have been told that using synthetic ATF is the solution to the problem, but you need to do a total flush and fill to remove the organic ATF. No personal experiance, but have been told that by two tranny shops here in Michigan.

Best of luck...

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Twerpzilla
Dude, your making this way to complicated....the stock cooler doesent sufficently cool, the ATF coming out of it is to hot. So send the too hot ATF throught the aftermarket cooler to further reduce the temp. No big deal, really.

As far as the cold ATF in the winter, that can be a real problem. I have been told that using synthetic ATF is the solution to the problem, but you need to do a total flush and fill to remove the organic ATF. No personal experiance, but have been told that by two tranny shops here in Michigan.

Best of luck...

Apparently it's more complicated than you think since you can't seem to decide whether it's "no big deal" or "a real problem."

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Twerpzilla
Dude, your making this way to complicated....the stock cooler doesent sufficently cool, the ATF coming out of it is to hot. So send the too hot ATF throught the aftermarket cooler to further reduce the temp. No big deal, really.

As far as the cold ATF in the winter, that can be a real problem. I have been told that using synthetic ATF is the solution to the problem, but you need to do a total flush and fill to remove the organic ATF. No personal experiance, but have been told that by two tranny shops here in Michigan.

Best of luck...

Apparently it's more complicated than you think since you can't seem to decide whether it's "no big deal" or "a real problem."

He's right though.

The aftermarket cooler will cool the ATF better. What is the point of sending it through the aftermarket cooler, to be cooled to let's say.. 180ºF.. only to be sent to the stock cooler where it is reheated to 215ºF?


That isn't that hard to understand. It is decreasing the efficiency of the aftermarket cooler.

As for the whole winter warmup thing.. either you make that sacrifice and install it after, or you don't because of your particular environment.

Actually, the ideal solution would be to use synthetic ATF and install it after, as someone mentioned.

 

[AmericasTeam]

In my old car I use only a B&M Supercooler. Their largest. I run synthetic mobil 5w-30 oil in the transmission. I live in Cali, so cold weather isn't a problem.

In your situation I would run the cooler after the stock (in radiator) cooler. Don't worry about the oil getting too cold in the winter. It won't happen.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: AmericasTeam
In my old car I use only a B&M Supercooler. Their largest. I run synthetic mobil 5w-30 oil in the transmission. I live in Cali, so cold weather isn't a problem.

In your situation I would run the cooler after the stock (in radiator) cooler. Don't worry about the oil getting too cold in the winter. It won't happen.

You run engine oil in an automatic transmission? I don't think so

 

[Twerpzilla]

Jeff, your attitud esucks. Sorry I tried to gudie you down a simple path. Forget what I said, go back to school, get more educated, than see if you can figure out a simple problem for yourself.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Twerpzilla
Jeff, your attitud esucks. Sorry I tried to gudie you down a simple path. Forget what I said, go back to school, get more educated, than see if you can figure out a simple problem for yourself.

So you're mad at me because you can't make up your mind whether it's no big deal or a real problem?

 

[JC]

According to Ron Sessions, author of the Turbo Hydra-Matic 350 Handbook (HP Books), the ideal operating temperature for transmission fluid is between 175 and 225 degrees Fahrenheit.

I think this pretty much answers it. Given that coolant typically runs at 180-220F, running the ATF through the auxiliary cooler first and then through the radiator cooler will keep the ATF closer to its ideal operating temperature. Furthermore, using the auxiliary trans cooler to shed the bulk of the heat first will keep the engine cooler, as the radiator trans cooler will not be transferring so much heat into the engine coolant.


JC

I can't believe that Roger hasn't lent his knowledge to this thread yet....

 

[Evadman]

with very few exceptions:
Trans --> Aux Cooler --> Radiator --> additonal filter --> trans

I usually install an additional filter if it will flow enough for the trans (remote single or dual filter based on flow) as the stock filters leave much to be desired.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Evadman
with very few exceptions:
Trans --> Aux Cooler --> Radiator --> additonal filter --> trans

I usually install an additional filter if it will flow enough for the trans (remote single or dual filter based on flow) as the stock filters leave much to be desired.

So you're saying to install it before the stock cooler?

Wow, this is quite the controversial subject. lol

 

[Jeff7181]

Call me a dork, but I called a few of my college friends who went on to a career in the automotive field unlike myself. Two of them (one works at a Dodge dealership, the other at a GM dealership and avid drag racer) said they'd install it BEFORE the stock cooler. The other, a Jiffy lube employee, said he'd install it AFTER.

Too bad I don't care enough to try installing it both ways and install a temp guage to see if one way cools significantly better, and if one way helps it warm up significantly better.

At this point I think I'll be installing it BEFORE the stock cooler... that is... unless Roger chimes in soon with more wisdom than my two friends who probably don't have as much experience combined as Roger

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Evadman
with very few exceptions:
Trans --> Aux Cooler --> Radiator --> additonal filter --> trans

I usually install an additional filter if it will flow enough for the trans (remote single or dual filter based on flow) as the stock filters leave much to be desired.

I've seen a few kits that make use of the popular (and cheap) Ford oil filter (I believe FL1A is the model numer)... would an oil filter like that flow enough?

 

[Evadman]

if you are in a cold cimate, ALWAYS run though the aux first, then the regular one.