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YACT: Are these repair estimate right for a '94 Altima? They seem high!

C

cjchaps

Diamond Member
So my parents '94 Nissan Altima is dying when you step on the gas. Here is what happened: One day my dad started the car, and out of no where it stalled. So he started the car again, and he noticed anytime that he starts to drive it, it sounds like the engine wants to die. He drove back home at about 20 MPH, because anything above that the car would die. He dropped it off at a individual shop, and they did engine diagnostics, and hooked up the car to a computer, and it doesn't say anything is wrong with it. No CEL or anything. The mechanic did say they voltage to the plugs was a little low, and it might need a new coil. The mechanic said it would be best to take it to the nissan dealer, because they would probably be able to handle the problem better. So we take the car to the dealer, and here is they estimate:
$515 - Replace Knock Sensor - 4 hours Labor
$677 - Replace Crank Angle Sensor - 2 hours Labor
$139 - Drive Belts Cracked
$486 - Need tensioner for upper timing chain

First off, it all seems super-high, but it is a dealer, so who knows. Secondly, why didn't the check engine light come on if those sensors were bad? What do you guys think?
 
Originally posted by: cjchaps
So my parents '94 Nissan Altima is dying when you step on the gas. Here is what happened: One day my dad started the car, and out of no where it stalled. So he started the car again, and he noticed anytime that he starts to drive it, it sounds like the engine wants to die. He drove back home at about 20 MPH, because anything above that the car would die. He dropped it off at a individual shop, and they did engine diagnostics, and hooked up the car to a computer, and it doesn't say anything is wrong with it. No CEL or anything. The mechanic did say they voltage to the plugs was a little low, and it might need a new coil. The mechanic said it would be best to take it to the nissan dealer, because they would probably be able to handle the problem better. So we take the car to the dealer, and here is they estimate:
$515 - Replace Knock Sensor - 4 hours Labor
$677 - Replace Crank Angle Sensor - 2 hours Labor
$139 - Drive Belts Cracked
$486 - Need tensioner for upper timing chain

First off, it all seems super-high, but it is a dealer, so who knows. Secondly, why didn't the check engine light come on if those sensors were bad? What do you guys think?
Click to expand...


Seems like they are guessing, some of those parts have nothing in common.

I need some info. How many miles and it has the 2.0L 4cyl right? Also when is the last time it had a full 30K service(the 30,60,90K)
Anything been done lately?

 
It's about about 75000 miles on it. It has the 2.4(or 2.5) cylinder engine in it if I remember correctly. We have had regular tune-up and oil changes, but nothing major. My buddy just did a tune-up about 15000 miles ago. We did plugs, wires, the distributor, air filter, and I think that's it...
 
Go to another dealer - or better yet, an import shop.

I *know* the timing chain issue is real. Those Alty's had some big timing chain issues. Also, they are really getting you with the labor.... to do some of that work, the other are easily done.
 
oh, and my comment about teh timing chain. Its not the cause of your problem, but it still should be taken care of.
 
Originally posted by: cjchaps
It's about about 75000 miles on it. It has the 2.4(or 2.5) cylinder engine in it if I remember correctly. We have had regular tune-up and oil changes, but nothing major. My buddy just did a tune-up about 15000 miles ago. We did plugs, wires, the distributor, air filter, and I think that's it...
Click to expand...


When is the last time you did a Fuel Filter?

Also how does it run, does it run kinda smooth just will not go fast and feals like it is choked up, or does it have a miss and shakes more than usuall?

Next thing is you need to find out what is causing it. Check fuel pressure, then check spark. Then is those are good, take out the plugs and see if they are all the same. If one plug is bad then you make have a bad Cyl. like Fuel injector, burnt valve, etc. If all the plugs look the same then check you Cat. Converter to make sure it is not clogged up, or to make sure something is not in the exhust restricting it.

 
500 bux to replace KS?
KS is just a little donut shaped thingy that is screwed on to the outside of the engine.
Here is procedure for changing it on 240sx, which has same engine pretty much as altima except RWD, so manifold might be different. Try to look for the knock sensor, or maybe get a repair manual for the Altima. Even if you don't use it to do work yourself, it will give you an idea of what amount of labor is necessary.
Link
KS itself should be around $100, and it's a little hard to reach it, but not 4 hours, IMO. If a mechanic is that incompetent that it takes him 4 hours, try to find another one.
 
It idles smoothly, but when you put it in gear and step on the gas, it gets rough, and then dies. It's not smooth at all when you give it gas. The first mechanic checked the fuel pressure, and he said that it was normal. I didn't check the exhaust ever... It sounds like the dealer be guessing at what's wrong?
 
The knock sensor and crank angle sensor are 2 totaly unrelated things. A bad knock sensor may be the cause as a bad one can change the air/fuel ratio so much that the car will stall. If the crank sensor was bad, road speed would have little impact on the car stalling.

The knock sensor is just threaded into a core plug (AFAIK, not a nissan expert) if that is true, then it would take very little time to change, and cost maybe $150 for the part. ( the one on my jimmy was $40. Replaced it once in the defunct 2.8)

The crank sensor just tells the computer where the piston is, and when to fire the spark plugs. This would not make the voltage to the plugs lower ( if you are thinking that) it would just fire them at the wrong time, leading to stalling and rough running. I do not know where the sender is located on a nissan, so I have no clue how hard it would be to change.

Both sensors can cause what you are experencing, and I would assume that the dealer is taking no chances and is just going to replace them both.

As for the drive belts and the tensioner, get them changed. The drive belt, assuming it is the timing chain belt, have them do. If it is the accessory belt, do it yourself. it would take about 10 minutes.

Since I have not heard your car run, I can only guess at things, but my guess is leaning towards a few things:

Plugged or restricted exaust
Bad TPS sensor (or nissan's equivelent)
Bad knock sensor
Bad timing sensor (although this is a streach)

Does the car die when it is in neutral and you give it gas? Or only when the engine is loaded?
 
That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard from the dealer...

To replace the tensioner, you need to basically pull apart everything in the front of the engine which means the drive belts, timing chain, tensioners, and crank angle sensor has to all come off (along with other parts).

And I'll bet that your engine will STILL be in the same condition as it was after that work is done. Since your car works fine at speeds lower than 20mph and has trouble running any faster, I'm guessing either

1) Your fuel filter is clogged.
2) Your fuel pump is dying.

Both of which are relatively easy and should take less than an hour to replace.

Originally posted by: cjchaps
So my parents '94 Nissan Altima is dying when you step on the gas. Here is what happened: One day my dad started the car, and out of no where it stalled. So he started the car again, and he noticed anytime that he starts to drive it, it sounds like the engine wants to die. He drove back home at about 20 MPH, because anything above that the car would die. He dropped it off at a individual shop, and they did engine diagnostics, and hooked up the car to a computer, and it doesn't say anything is wrong with it. No CEL or anything. The mechanic did say they voltage to the plugs was a little low, and it might need a new coil. The mechanic said it would be best to take it to the nissan dealer, because they would probably be able to handle the problem better. So we take the car to the dealer, and here is they estimate:
$515 - Replace Knock Sensor - 4 hours Labor
$677 - Replace Crank Angle Sensor - 2 hours Labor
$139 - Drive Belts Cracked
$486 - Need tensioner for upper timing chain

First off, it all seems super-high, but it is a dealer, so who knows. Secondly, why didn't the check engine light come on if those sensors were bad? What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

 
<< Does the car die when it is in neutral and you give it gas? Or only when the engine is loaded? >>
Yea, once you isolate and pinpoint the problems and know what parts you need. I can give you a free fairly accurate "parts and labor" estimate so that you won't get ripped off from the dealer nor independent shops.
 
1) Your fuel filter is clogged.
2) Your fuel pump is dying.
Click to expand...

If the pump is in the tank it will probably take a regular persom more than an hour to change. A mechanic, an hour is about right. Both of those can cause your problems as well. Have someone do a pressure and volume test on the fuel system.

 
If the car is in park then you can crank the engine up, although it doesn't sound completely normal. It's only when the car is under a load(in drive) that it really starts giving him trouble. Anyone know any good places in Chicago to take the car?
 
If check engine light is not on, open the distributor cap and check if there is oil inside the distributor. If there is, then, that's the problem. Replace it with a rebuilt distributor should cost you around $150 (parts only) + 0.8 hr of labor. This is a general problem among Nissan vehicles.
 
Originally posted by: cjchaps
If the car is in park then you can crank the engine up, although it doesn't sound completely normal. It's only when the car is under a load(in drive) that it really starts giving him trouble.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a fuel delivery problem.
Anyone know any good places in Chicago to take the car?
Click to expand...
My driveway.

<---- lives in Bartlett.
 
Look you're getting some bad info....from the dealer and from some of the posts here.

The crank angle sensor is built into the distributor on this altima. It has a history of failure on these early models. The symptoms are varied, but generally match what you have described.

Tell the dealer you'll buy the crank-angle sensor only if it fixes the problem..if not you want your money back. The other stuff will NOT fix the problem. Get it running good first before replacing anything else. Those crank-angle sensors are expensive, but usually only take an hour or less to replace...easy job, but hard to diagnose.
 
Originally posted by: Bluefront
Look you're getting some bad info....from the dealer and from some of the posts here.

The crank angle sensor is built into the distributor on this altima. It has a history of failure on these early models. The symptoms are varied, but generally match what you have described.

Tell the dealer you'll buy the crank-angle sensor only if it fixes the problem..if not you want your money back. The other stuff will NOT fix the problem. Get it running good first before replacing anything else. Those crank-angle sensors are expensive, but usually only take an hour or less to replace...easy job, but hard to diagnose.
Click to expand...
I thought that it was called camshaft position sensor, which is located in the distributor, monitors engine speed and piston position.
😕
 
The mechanic said it would be best to take it to the nissan dealer, because they would probably be able to handle the problem better.
Click to expand...

You don't hear that very often.

Good luck, there are several possibilities it seems...
I usually try and let a little intuition play a role in it all. Either that or I trick myself.
 
The names of these various parts vary from brand to brand. A "camshaft position sensor" on Nissans is a small sensor, usually found on the front of the motor, on some engines with camchains......such as a new Maxima, or a new Sentra. Then there is a "crankshaft position sensor"......early Altimas have this part, a small sensor located on the front of the transmission, by the engine block. Then there is the "crank-angle sensor", located inside the distributor on early Altimas. This part is the one that usually fails........Independent shops have a tough time keeping up with terminology, as does everyone else.
 
A crank angle sensor and crankshaft position sensor are the same thing. <-- I just replaced one on my GTP.

A camshaft whatever sensor is NOT the same as a crank whatever sensor.

People get them confused but they are not the same and do not measure the same data.

 
Are the knock sensor and crank sensor considered emissions parts? If so, then there should be a longer warranty on emissions parts (e.g. - 80,000 miles or 100,000 miles) vs. the 3 yr./36,000 mile standard warranty.
 
At any rate, if any of those sensors (they control emission) had gone bad, the check engine light should have come on. Since he didn't mention anything about the check engine light, I'd suggest him to remove the distributor to check if there is any oil spot on the rotor plate. Oil leaks through the distributor into the cap is a common problem among Nissan cars. Since he said the car has about 75,000 mi on it, it's possible that the o-ring/seal has gone bad at this stage and I seriously doubt that the Altima would have exhaust and emission control related problems at this low mileage. They usually don't show up until after the car hits 100k mi. JMHO.
 
Look....What nissan calls a crank-angle sensor is not the same thing as what they call a crank position sensor...believe me. While they do similar things, they are not the same. That 94 Altima has both sensors. And these parts, particularly the crank-angle sensor (or distributor as you can call it) do fail before 100k miles quite frequently.

The knock sensor on Nissan cars, will not cause any running problems....nor will it turn on a CEL by itself. The car will run perfectly fine if you unplug the thing. So don't let anyone sell you one hoping to cure a running problem.

I hope when this car is finally fixed, cjchaps will tell us all what was really wrong....and I also hope they don't buy a bunch of un-necessary parts.

One more thing...A failing crank-angle sensor on a Nissan, does not always turn on the CEL...sometimes, but not always.
 
Originally posted by: cjchaps
If the car is in park then you can crank the engine up, although it doesn't sound completely normal. It's only when the car is under a load(in drive) that it really starts giving him trouble. Anyone know any good places in Chicago to take the car?
Click to expand...

I know a good place in Glenview.
 
Originally posted by: Bluefront
Look....What nissan calls a crank-angle sensor is not the same thing as what they call a crank position sensor...believe me. While they do similar things, they are not the same. That 94 Altima has both sensors. And these parts, particularly the crank-angle sensor (or distributor as you can call it) do fail before 100k miles quite frequently.

The knock sensor on Nissan cars, will not cause any running problems....nor will it turn on a CEL by itself. The car will run perfectly fine if you unplug the thing. So don't let anyone sell you one hoping to cure a running problem.

I hope when this car is finally fixed, cjchaps will tell us all what was really wrong....and I also hope they don't buy a bunch of un-necessary parts.

One more thing...A failing crank-angle sensor on a Nissan, does not always turn on the CEL...sometimes, but not always.
Click to expand...
That's what I have been telling him the entire time to check the distributor. 🙂
By the way, ALLDATA calls it camshaft position sensor (located in the distributor). Strange... 😕
 
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