YACT: A/C self repair?

[djheater]

Manual '00 Dodge Neon. Worked last summer without issue, I'm guessing I just need a refrigerant refill? Not making any strange noises, just not blowing cold.

Never messed with the system before, is it painful?

 

[natto fire]

Not too bad. The problem is you will have to keep refilling it, as there is a leak somewhere. You can take it to a shop and have them fill the system with a dyed refrigerant to find the leak, repair as necessary or pay the minuscule amount to refill it yourself, and hope it keeps over the summer. Seeing as how it is a Neon, I would go for the latter, at least R-134a is not nearly as hazardous to the environment.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Just get a kit with a guage so you don't over fill the system. Some kits come with it and some don't.

 

[Minjin]

I really don't recommend that amateurs mess with A/C. It can be tricky enough for the professionals. One of the problems with following the above advice is that the oil will actually leave through a leak before the refrigerant does. This means that the longer you try to play the refill and drive game, the greater your chance of wearing down and screwing up your compressor, which could cause debris to be scattered throughout the whole system. A/C was much easier in the R12 days when tubes were larger and the oil molecules were larger. With R134a, you should take it to a shop.

 

[edro]

Chances are, you have a leak. Once a leak is in the system, it's very difficult to find.
With R134A, when there is a leak in the system, your system pressure will read higher than normal (counter intuitive).

 

[djheater]

So, is that two for and two against then?

Man :|

 

[EagleKeeper]

For $50+ you can get it checked to determine if there is a leak and where.

If there is no leak - you are charged and cooled off.


If there is a leak, then you know it, have a cost estimate to repair and have not wasted any refrigerant.

 

[nonameo]

Roll down the windows FTW.

 

[AgentJean]

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Not too bad. The problem is you will have to keep refilling it, as there is a leak somewhere. You can take it to a shop and have them fill the system with a dyed refrigerant to find the leak, repair as necessary or pay the minuscule amount to refill it yourself, and hope it keeps over the summer. Seeing as how it is a Neon, I would go for the latter, at least R-134a is not nearly as hazardous to the environment.

That is incorrect. R-134a is bad for the enviroment. It's illegal to vent R-134a into the atmosphere. Why would it be illegal if it wasn't bad?

 

[edro]

Originally posted by: AgentJean

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Not too bad. The problem is you will have to keep refilling it, as there is a leak somewhere. You can take it to a shop and have them fill the system with a dyed refrigerant to find the leak, repair as necessary or pay the minuscule amount to refill it yourself, and hope it keeps over the summer. Seeing as how it is a Neon, I would go for the latter, at least R-134a is not nearly as hazardous to the environment.

That is incorrect. R-134a is bad for the enviroment. It's illegal to vent R-134a into the atmosphere. Why would it be illegal if it wasn't bad?

Um... R134A is used in canned air for dusting your computer. I don't think they would sell it as an "air duster" if it was illegal to spray into the air.

 

[911paramedic]

There is a kit with a gauge, refrigerant including the oil, and an instructional CD. I used it last year on my Expedition and it worked great. Make sure to watch the video because it points out a few things that I would NOT have done. (like having the A/C and car running at full while filling, etc.)

I picked it up at a store like autozone for about $50, last time I had it filled by a mechanic it cost $200.

 

[911paramedic]

P.S. Make sure to find out how many pounds you car needs before filling!

 

[sao123]

DIY AC is easy...

Fill the system with

1 Can AC Leak Dye
3-4 Cans (check your mfr book) of R134A with leak stop.

Run system at night on max ac & check for leaks with a UV lamp.

No leak? Problem fixed...
See dye? Replace defective part...

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: AgentJean

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Not too bad. The problem is you will have to keep refilling it, as there is a leak somewhere. You can take it to a shop and have them fill the system with a dyed refrigerant to find the leak, repair as necessary or pay the minuscule amount to refill it yourself, and hope it keeps over the summer. Seeing as how it is a Neon, I would go for the latter, at least R-134a is not nearly as hazardous to the environment.

That is incorrect. R-134a is bad for the enviroment. It's illegal to vent R-134a into the atmosphere. Why would it be illegal if it wasn't bad?

Wrong. It's illegalt to vent any refrigerant from an A/C system into the atmosphere.

Do you know what's in those cans of "canned air" that you use to blow out a computer? R-134a. Yes, the exact same R-134a that is used in automotive A/C systems.

Because of vaguely-written EPA laws, the same substance that is legally released into the atmosphere from millions of cans of "canned air" each year is illegal to release from an automotive A/C system. Have to love the government.

R-134a has several undesireable qualities as a refrigerant though. Not the least of which is the fact that it's more flamable than hydrocarbon blends, runs much higher system pressures, and does not carry lubricant nearly as well as R-12. We would have been much better off using R-22, but that's also being phased out by the enviro-nazis. If it weren't technically illegal, I would recommend using a hydrocarbon blend like Duracool. Believe it or not, the flash point for hydrocarbon blends is higher than the flash point for R-134a, so the supposedly "safe" R-134a is actually more prone to igniting.

HC blends like Duracool have several advantages; they run lower pressures (lower than both R-134a and R-12), they provide superior cooling, they carry lubricants well, and they are the most environmentally-friendly refrigerants. Unfortunately people who are unfamiliar with the specific hydrocarbon blends used as refrigerants freaked out thinking that they would be a fire risk and got hydrocarbon refrigerants banned for automotive use.

As for the oil escaping, not very much will. The majority of the oil stays settled out in the compressor itself. It generally takes a severe leak to cause the system to lose a significant amount of oil. That said, I would highly suggest having the system tested for a leak anyway, because simply refilling it is a pain and you will eventually have other problems with the A/C since the leak will allow moisture into the system and slowly corrode the A/C lines from the inside out. Have a shop evacuate the system and test it for leaks.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: sao123
DIY AC is easy...

Fill the system with

1 Can AC Leak Dye
3-4 Cans (check your mfr book) of R134A with leak stop.

NO! You should never, under any circumstances use any "leak stop" product. Never. Period.

The products have congealing properties to stop leaks and they will clog the system. A "leak stop" can of R-134a may work for a little while, but it will gum up your compressor and eventually cause problems.

Fix it right.

ZV

 

[AgentJean]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: AgentJean

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Not too bad. The problem is you will have to keep refilling it, as there is a leak somewhere. You can take it to a shop and have them fill the system with a dyed refrigerant to find the leak, repair as necessary or pay the minuscule amount to refill it yourself, and hope it keeps over the summer. Seeing as how it is a Neon, I would go for the latter, at least R-134a is not nearly as hazardous to the environment.

That is incorrect. R-134a is bad for the enviroment. It's illegal to vent R-134a into the atmosphere. Why would it be illegal if it wasn't bad?

Wrong. It's illegalt to vent any refrigerant from an A/C system into the atmosphere.

Do you know what's in those cans of "canned air" that you use to blow out a computer? R-134a. Yes, the exact same R-134a that is used in automotive A/C systems.

Because of vaguely-written EPA laws, the same substance that is legally released into the atmosphere from millions of cans of "canned air" each year is illegal to release from an automotive A/C system. Have to love the government.

Wrong again.
I have 2 cans of air on my desk. One is Falcon "Dust-off" another is Memorex "Air Duster"
both contain Difluoroethane AKA R-152A.

R-134a is Tetrafluoroethane. It has been some time since tetrafluoroethane has been used in canned air. If there are still brands using R-134a the companies should be sued because Tetrafluoroethane is a greenhouse gas over a thousand times worse than CO2 and creates acid rain :Q

You are right about the messed up EPA laws. It's illegal to vent R-290(propane) if used as a refrigerant, but it totally fine for millions of grills to burn that substance as fuel. The EPA needs a total clean house and then reformed for more logical people and not eco-NAZIs

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: sao123
DIY AC is easy...

Fill the system with

1 Can AC Leak Dye
3-4 Cans (check your mfr book) of R134A with leak stop.

NO! You should never, under any circumstances use any "leak stop" product. Never. Period.

The products have congealing properties to stop leaks and they will clog the system. A "leak stop" can of R-134a may work for a little while, but it will gum up your compressor and eventually cause problems.

Fix it right.

ZV

All FUD...
Leak stop will not harm any component of your AC unless there is water inside your system... and if there is, you have bigger problems than leak stop will fix.

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: AgentJean

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: AgentJean

Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Not too bad. The problem is you will have to keep refilling it, as there is a leak somewhere. You can take it to a shop and have them fill the system with a dyed refrigerant to find the leak, repair as necessary or pay the minuscule amount to refill it yourself, and hope it keeps over the summer. Seeing as how it is a Neon, I would go for the latter, at least R-134a is not nearly as hazardous to the environment.

That is incorrect. R-134a is bad for the enviroment. It's illegal to vent R-134a into the atmosphere. Why would it be illegal if it wasn't bad?

Wrong. It's illegalt to vent any refrigerant from an A/C system into the atmosphere.

Do you know what's in those cans of "canned air" that you use to blow out a computer? R-134a. Yes, the exact same R-134a that is used in automotive A/C systems.

Because of vaguely-written EPA laws, the same substance that is legally released into the atmosphere from millions of cans of "canned air" each year is illegal to release from an automotive A/C system. Have to love the government.

Wrong again.
I have 2 cans of air on my desk. One is Falcon "Dust-off" another is Memorex "Air Duster"
both contain Difluoroethane AKA R-152A.

R-134a is Tetrafluoroethane. It has been some time since tetrafluoroethane has been used in canned air. If there are still brands using R-134a the companies should be sued because Tetrafluoroethane is a greenhouse gas over a thousand times worse than CO2 and creates acid rain :Q

You are right about the messed up EPA laws. It's illegal to vent R-290(propane) if used as a refrigerant, but it totally fine for millions of grills to burn that substance as fuel. The EPA needs a total clean house and then reformed for more logical people and not eco-NAZIs

Either way, you missed the point I was trying to make that R12 is more hazardous that R134a. Notice the use of the word "not nearly as hazardous", naturally you misconstrued the meaning of this and claimed I said it was not hazardous.

Originally posted by: AgentJean
Why would it be illegal if it wasn't bad?

That is so freaking funny, because I actually think you believe that. Does that mean things that are legal are good?

Also, in your propane example, the propane used in a grill is almost completely burned so it is not the same as releasing pure propane into the air. (All unburned hydrocarbons are technically bad for the atmosphere)

 

[lightpants]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: sao123
DIY AC is easy...

Fill the system with

1 Can AC Leak Dye
3-4 Cans (check your mfr book) of R134A with leak stop.

NO! You should never, under any circumstances use any "leak stop" product. Never. Period.

The products have congealing properties to stop leaks and they will clog the system. A "leak stop" can of R-134a may work for a little while, but it will gum up your compressor and eventually cause problems.

Fix it right.

ZV

All FUD...
Leak stop will not harm any component of your AC unless there is water inside your system... and if there is, you have bigger problems than leak stop will fix.

FUD?
If your freon has leaked out of the car and there is air in the system, then there is moisture in there.
If you put leak stop in your a/c system most shops will refuse to work on it. The properties of the leak stop will clog their recovery equipment.

Additionally, there are other things that can stop your car's a/c from cooling. There are pressure switches and most modern cars climate control systems are controlled by the computer.

One thing that is 100% true - a car does not "use" refrigerant, it does not need to be "topped off" like engine oil or fuel. If the refrigerant is low, it went somewhere that means that there is a leak. It might be a slow leak and be cost prohibitive to fix, but it is a leak.

Take it to a shop and have it checked out. Some things are great for DYI, but this is not one of them.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: lightpants

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: sao123
DIY AC is easy...

Fill the system with

1 Can AC Leak Dye
3-4 Cans (check your mfr book) of R134A with leak stop.

NO! You should never, under any circumstances use any "leak stop" product. Never. Period.

The products have congealing properties to stop leaks and they will clog the system. A "leak stop" can of R-134a may work for a little while, but it will gum up your compressor and eventually cause problems.

Fix it right.

ZV

All FUD...
Leak stop will not harm any component of your AC unless there is water inside your system... and if there is, you have bigger problems than leak stop will fix.

FUD?
If your freon has leaked out of the car and there is air in the system, then there is moisture in there.
If you put leak stop in your a/c system most shops will refuse to work on it. The properties of the leak stop will clog their recovery equipment.

Additionally, there are other things that can stop your car's a/c from cooling. There are pressure switches and most modern cars climate control systems are controlled by the computer.

One thing that is 100% true - a car does not "use" refrigerant, it does not need to be "topped off" like engine oil or fuel. If the refrigerant is low, it went somewhere that means that there is a leak. It might be a slow leak and be cost prohibitive to fix, but it is a leak.

Take it to a shop and have it checked out. Some things are great for DIY, but this is not one of them.

Thanks.

I'll take it in, I don't have the time,tools or proficiency to check for a leak, and pull out what needs to be fixed.

:thumbsup: good info in this thread.