YACT: a big problem and a small question.

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
First off you don't have a blown headgasket. You have a rusty coolant because the old coolant was left in the engine too long and turned into an acid and dissolved the cast iron to rust. There isn't much hope to stopping the rust inside your engine once it starts. I have tried over the years for several different customers with limited success.

I would recommend back flushing the entire engine and removing the engine block drain plugs. If you feel comfortable you can use a chemical cleaner too. But some local laws might prohibit this so I could capture the wastewater.

Secondly, I would recommend the fuel filter you feel comfortable with. Cheaper filters are cheaper because they are made that way. I use OEM or Wix brands on the vehicles I work on because I don't know how often the customer is planning on changing their filter.

BUT when the engine is running he mentions Milky tea like. That is oil mixing with water. Then when he shuts the car off it is clear. For sure oil with water because if it was just rust the water wouldnt change with the engine running or not.

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
First off you don't have a blown headgasket. You have a rusty coolant because the old coolant was left in the engine too long and turned into an acid and dissolved the cast iron to rust. There isn't much hope to stopping the rust inside your engine once it starts. I have tried over the years for several different customers with limited success.

I would recommend back flushing the entire engine and removing the engine block drain plugs. If you feel comfortable you can use a chemical cleaner too. But some local laws might prohibit this so I could capture the wastewater.

Secondly, I would recommend the fuel filter you feel comfortable with. Cheaper filters are cheaper because they are made that way. I use OEM or Wix brands on the vehicles I work on because I don't know how often the customer is planning on changing their filter.

After looking at the fluid, that ain't oil it is rust.

 

[StageLeft]

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

Has he mentioned what car he drives yet? I know with my 93 sentra the drain plugs in the engine were easy to remove. In my maximas they are fvcking ridiculous and nobody does it!

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: Quixfire
First off you don't have a blown headgasket. You have a rusty coolant because the old coolant was left in the engine too long and turned into an acid and dissolved the cast iron to rust. There isn't much hope to stopping the rust inside your engine once it starts. I have tried over the years for several different customers with limited success.

I would recommend back flushing the entire engine and removing the engine block drain plugs. If you feel comfortable you can use a chemical cleaner too. But some local laws might prohibit this so I could capture the wastewater.

Secondly, I would recommend the fuel filter you feel comfortable with. Cheaper filters are cheaper because they are made that way. I use OEM or Wix brands on the vehicles I work on because I don't know how often the customer is planning on changing their filter.

BUT when the engine is running he mentions Milky tea like. That is oil mixing with water. Then when he shuts the car off it is clear. For sure oil with water because if it was just rust the water wouldnt change with the engine running or not.

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

Because when the engine is running the water pump is turning circulating the water through the engine block. Stop the engine the water only flows through the radiator.

I also stated to remove the engine block drain plugs, not the freeze plugs. I'm glad you know what a freeze plug is but if you don't know the difference between a freeze plug and a drain plug I would suggest you not try this method of flushing yourself.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Where is this "milky" substance?

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

Has he mentioned what car he drives yet? I know with my 93 sentra the drain plugs in the engine were easy to remove. In my maximas they are fvcking ridiculous and nobody does it!

Try it on a 20 year old Corvette. :roll:

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

Has he mentioned what car he drives yet? I know with my 93 sentra the drain plugs in the engine were easy to remove. In my maximas they are fvcking ridiculous and nobody does it!

It is a 96 Toyota Celica

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
You have a rusty coolant because the old coolant was left in the engine too long and turned into an acid and dissolved the cast iron to rust. There isn't much hope to stopping the rust inside your engine once it starts. I have tried over the years for several different customers with limited success.

yes, the old coolant was there since... since 2 years and 30,000 miles ago. maybe longer.

I would recommend back flushing the entire engine and removing the engine block drain plugs.

well, in my first attempt few days ago, I first drain coolant out from the radiator only, and ran water from the top until it became clear. Now correct me if I am wrong, the thermo stat was shut so coolant from the block and heater coil is not drained. So, I started the engine and let it idle with the drain plug detached. More milky Coolant then gushed out. I continue to run water from the top till it became clear. Then, keeping the engine running at idle, I took the water hose away temporarily till it seems like there's no water left in the system. I put the water hose back on the radiator and rich milky stuff came out again. This is similar to what happen to me on my second attempt yesterday. but the coolant was JUST the radiator is not as rich and concentrated compare to the 1st attempt.
So in effect, did I successfully "back flushing the entire engine"?

If you feel comfortable you can use a chemical cleaner too.

oh no, i'm not that level....

Originally posted by: TechnoKid
sort of. the silicates and/or ethylene glycol in your coolant does not mix with the bearings of the crankshaft as far as I know.

well, I didn't put anymore anti-freeze into the radiator, I am using just tap water for now.

A surefire way to tell if it really is a blown HG is to do a Used Oil Analysis (UOA) coolant chemistry will show up in the oil.

how and where can I do that? a shop I suppose right?

Originally posted by: Skoorb
If he kept dumping his coolant out fairly often and refilling it with cheapy crap from walmart his cooling would be fine, so is it really bad that the engine is throwing oil into the coolant?

well, since I am forseeing that I will be draining the radiator more often now, I didn't put any anti-freeze so I don't have to waste them (and the hassle of capturing and depositing the drainage) It is just tap water for now.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe
Where is this "milky" substance?

in the pics. Is that considered milky to you? It was more like coffee.


and I used the drain plug on the Radiator... I will have to find the one on the block later tomorrow morning.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Has he mentioned what car he drives yet? I know with my 93 sentra the drain plugs in the engine were easy to remove. In my maximas they are fvcking ridiculous and nobody does it!

It is a 96 Toyota Celica[/quote]

 

[TechnoKid]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ does UOAs

 

[Quixfire]

well, in my first attempt few days ago, I first drain coolant out from the radiator only, and ran water from the top until it became clear. Now correct me if I am wrong, the thermo stat was shut so coolant from the block and heater coil is not drained. So, I started the engine and let it idle with the drain plug detached. More milky Coolant then gushed out. I continue to run water from the top till it became clear. Then, keeping the engine running at idle, I took the water hose away temporarily till it seems like there's no water left in the system. I put the water hose back on the radiator and rich milky stuff came out again. This is similar to what happen to me on my second attempt yesterday. but the coolant was JUST the radiator is not as rich and concentrated compare to the 1st attempt.
So in effect, did I successfully "back flushing the entire engine"?

Not really. I would disconnect a heater hose that runs to the intake manifold and connect your gardan hose there. Removed the radiator drain plug and run the water until clear. This would be the best way to flush it if you not comfortable with pulling the block drain plug(s). I really would take it anywhere to be chemicaly flushed because with a rusty block there is no garrantee that they will ever get it clean.

You might have to flush the cooling system several times to get most of the rust out. Once you are satified with the results I would use a mixture of 60% coolant to 40% water and change it at least every two years.

 

[Eli]

You most likely have a head gasket leak.

 

[V00DOO]

Sounds like a rusty radiator. When was the last time you flush the coolant? Go to your local autoparts store and get a bottle of radiator flush. After you done with the radiator flush put a running water hose inside the top of the radiator and remove the radiator drain plug with the engine running and header on until the water become clear. Don't use tab water to refill. Either buy the pre-mixed 50/50 coolant or mix coolant with distilled water. Good luck.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: Eli
You most likely have a head gasket leak.

wait, HG Leak != HG blown right?

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: Quixfire
Not really. I would disconnect a heater hose that runs to the intake manifold and connect your gardan hose there. Removed the radiator drain plug and run the water until clear. This would be the best way to flush it if you not comfortable with pulling the block drain plug(s).

wouldn't the shut thermo stat block the water from flowing to the radiator? so I need to start the engine and keep it running right?

Originally posted by: V00DOO
Sounds like a rusty radiator. When was the last time you flush the coolant? Go to your local autoparts store and get a bottle of radiator flush. After you done with the radiator flush put a running water hose inside the top of the radiator and remove the radiator drain plug with the engine running and header on until the water become clear. Don't use tab water to refill. Either buy the pre-mixed 50/50 coolant or mix coolant with distilled water. Good luck.

it was a looong time ago, I never took care of the coolant, but I had an accident two/three years ago and the shop replaced the radiator, so I supposed they change the coolant as well. otherwise, it was at least 6 years and 100k miles that the coolant was ever changed. anyways, with the bottle of radiator flush, do I
1) pour it in the radiator (with the drain plug attached)and let it run in the system for a while, or
2) I just pour it in and let it come out from the drain plug?
or, there's instruction on the bottle huh?

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: Quixfire
First off you don't have a blown headgasket. You have a rusty coolant because the old coolant was left in the engine too long and turned into an acid and dissolved the cast iron to rust. There isn't much hope to stopping the rust inside your engine once it starts. I have tried over the years for several different customers with limited success.

I would recommend back flushing the entire engine and removing the engine block drain plugs. If you feel comfortable you can use a chemical cleaner too. But some local laws might prohibit this so I could capture the wastewater.

Secondly, I would recommend the fuel filter you feel comfortable with. Cheaper filters are cheaper because they are made that way. I use OEM or Wix brands on the vehicles I work on because I don't know how often the customer is planning on changing their filter.

BUT when the engine is running he mentions Milky tea like. That is oil mixing with water. Then when he shuts the car off it is clear. For sure oil with water because if it was just rust the water wouldnt change with the engine running or not.

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

Because when the engine is running the water pump is turning circulating the water through the engine block. Stop the engine the water only flows through the radiator.

I also stated to remove the engine block drain plugs, not the freeze plugs. I'm glad you know what a freeze plug is but if you don't know the difference between a freeze plug and a drain plug I would suggest you not try this method of flushing yourself.

Engine block drain plugs? What car did you have that had a engine block drain plug? All I am aware of is the petcock on the lower part of the radiator and the oil plug. In my years of being a mechanic have I never heard of a engine block drain plug. Unless you talking about the little valve near the thermo housing you use to make sure all the air is out of the system. Please do elaberate on a drain plug for the coolant for I have been out of it for a bit and maybe this is new on cars and I am willing to learn.

 

[TwoBills]

The way I always backflushed an engine:
- first remove the T-stat and reinstall the goose neck (doesn't have to be leak proof).
- Turn the heater control lever to hot.
-Disconnect the radiator hose, at the radiator, that runs to the T-stat.
- Disconnect the other radiator hose.
-Stick the water hose in the T-stat hose, stuff a rag around it, and pump a lot of water thru that sucker. That way you don't contaminate the radiator w/block crud.
- After it runs clear reconnect the non T-stat hose, open the petcock and pump some more water thru.

Get a new T-stat and reinstall. Fill w/a 50/50 mix of af and dist. water.

If you want to be anal about it, like me, then I would get about 10 gallons of distilled water, about $8 at Wal-mart, and run this thru it after I was done flushing and before I did the T-stat and 50/50 mix. Dump it down the disconnected rad. hose and fill the radiator a couple of times. Gets that hose water out.

Consider a new water pump.

 

[Quixfire]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: Quixfire
First off you don't have a blown headgasket. You have a rusty coolant because the old coolant was left in the engine too long and turned into an acid and dissolved the cast iron to rust. There isn't much hope to stopping the rust inside your engine once it starts. I have tried over the years for several different customers with limited success.

I would recommend back flushing the entire engine and removing the engine block drain plugs. If you feel comfortable you can use a chemical cleaner too. But some local laws might prohibit this so I could capture the wastewater.

Secondly, I would recommend the fuel filter you feel comfortable with. Cheaper filters are cheaper because they are made that way. I use OEM or Wix brands on the vehicles I work on because I don't know how often the customer is planning on changing their filter.

BUT when the engine is running he mentions Milky tea like. That is oil mixing with water. Then when he shuts the car off it is clear. For sure oil with water because if it was just rust the water wouldnt change with the engine running or not.

And your talking of pulling the water plugs out? I highly do not reccomend that at all. Thoes are called freeze plugs and they are only there from the casting of the block and if the water freezed they will pop out before it is supposed to crack the block. Also the guy is having trouble with a fuel filter there is no way he is going to get to the freeze plugs and depending on the engine will have to tear it all down to get to them.

Because when the engine is running the water pump is turning circulating the water through the engine block. Stop the engine the water only flows through the radiator.

I also stated to remove the engine block drain plugs, not the freeze plugs. I'm glad you know what a freeze plug is but if you don't know the difference between a freeze plug and a drain plug I would suggest you not try this method of flushing yourself.

Engine block drain plugs? What car did you have that had a engine block drain plug? All I am aware of is the petcock on the lower part of the radiator and the oil plug. In my years of being a mechanic have I never heard of a engine block drain plug. Unless you talking about the little valve near the thermo housing you use to make sure all the air is out of the system. Please do elaberate on a drain plug for the coolant for I have been out of it for a bit and maybe this is new on cars and I am willing to learn.

Most engine, if not all, have a threaded drain plug in the block from the factory. It's primary function is to help flush the casting sand out of the coolant passages after casting. But they also can be used to drain the coolant from an engine block. Next time you under an engine look around for a threaded plug in the coolant jacket of the engine block. Be mindful these plugs are usually corroded and difficult to remove with out heating them first.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: Quixfire

Most engine, if not all, have a threaded drain plug in the block from the factory. It's primary function is to help flush the casting sand out of the coolant passages after casting. But they also can be used to drain the coolant from an engine block. Next time you under an engine look around for a threaded plug in the coolant jacket of the engine block. Be mindful these plugs are usually corroded and difficult to remove with out heating them first.[/quote]

yaeh, there's one and it is next to the oil filter. I don't plan to remove it anyways.

 

[funboy6942]

WOW I been a mechanich for over 10 years, went to 4 schools, 1 trade school, and this is a first for me. I was told the freeze plugs were there not ofnly for the freezing part but to let the sand out when they made the block.
Next time I am under a car (haha) I will have to take another look because as many times as I have been under several I never noticed such a thing either.