Yeah. That's a really helpful website. Statistics tend to come out of the woodwork in these type of threads, so I was just looking for where he's getting his information from so we can take some info as fact...
Yeah. That's a really helpful website. Statistics tend to come out of the woodwork in these type of threads, so I was just looking for where he's getting his information from so we can take some info as fact...
Amused
Elite Member
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Originally posted by: Amused
Hey, it's GOOD to be CRITICAL of what you hear. If only the OP was, we wouldn't have to go through all this.
This is true... Its also hard to ask for sources because sometimes people take offense!
(good sources, BTW :beer: )
Amused
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Originally posted by: PabloMartinez
Originally posted by: Amused
Hey, it's GOOD to be CRITICAL of what you hear. If only the OP was, we wouldn't have to go through all this.
This is true... Its also hard to ask for sources because sometimes people take offense!
(good sources, BTW :beer
Taking offense is NOT a valid argument. They then, by default, lose the debate.
NEVER hesitate to ask for sources. BUT, at the same time, you cannot argue against the source they present, only the information therein. Unless, of course, the debate is about the source.
Debate rules are pretty strict.
Do you understand how insurance works? If you're young, you're more at risk. Yes, I know that racial profiling is technically illegal, but if blacks are more likely to wreck, then they SHOULD pay more. If you prove that you're not a threat, then at some point your rates will go down. Numbers aren't racist, and they don't lie. I don't know the specifics, but if indeed there is a statistically significant difference between the accident rate of whites and blacks, then the rates should be higher. The insurance company isn't TRYING to be racist, they're just trying to make a profit.
If I were black, I wouldn't like it, I'll admit that. But at the same time, can you logically say it's wrong? I don't like a lot of the ways insurance companies use to find out what rate to charge a person, but at the same time, if being young means you have a higher chance of having a wreck, then race should be no different than any other criteria.
Imagine you're selling insurance to some people. It's just you. There's no company. You don't have a lot of money, but you happen to have enough that you might be able to cover a wreck or two. You don't know these people personally at all. You don't have time to ride with them all the time to see how they drive, and you wouldn't trust them to drive in their normal manner if you did. So how do you know who's more of a risk? This is YOUR money we're talking about. Now if 15% of whites have accidents and 17% of blacks do, I don't know that you could use that for much, but if 15% of whites have accidents in an average year vs. 22% of blacks, I guarantee you'd charge the black person more - assuming the law isn't a factor. Maybe morally you'd feel bad about it, but again, all you have are statistics. The important thing would be to rule out factors such as poverty and geography. If the increase in accident rate in the black community was equal to what you would expect because of the higher poverty rate (or any other factor for that matter, like % living in "bad" neighborhoods), then you ignore race and look instead to these other factors.
If they could predict who would have accidents, then they could charge everyone accordingly, but if not, then they have to (and should) use every other means necessary to determine the propensity for you to get in an accident.
Please don't tell me you believe some conspiracy theory that drugs were introduced to keep blacks down. Please tell me that isn't the case.
Wow, I wondered who all the people are that support Jesse Jackson. FYI, Jackson is one of the most racist men alive today. He's a liar, a conniver, a hypocrite and pretty much an all around problem. The world will be better when the day comes that he shuts up and gets out of the spotlight.
I'm afraid I COMPLETELY disagree with you.
A) AA IS a problem, and it does cause serious racism. One of my uncles lost his farm because of a big industry that came in. It cost more to feed his hogs than he got form selling them. Anyway, he then went to get a job in a factory that another uncle of mine worked in. He was denied because of AA, and my other uncle knew it but said there was nothing he could do. His family needed that money desperately, and he was only denied because of AA. If you don't think he - and much of the rest of my family - HATES blacks solely because of AA, you're kidding yourself. That guy came in and missed all kinds of days of work and basically was terrible, but they couldn't let him go because they had to meet their quota. So uncle #2 saw all of this and it only fed the hate. I CERTAINLY am not saying it's right to blame a whole race for this one guy (or a government program), but it's more of a problem than you think.
B) The problem isn't that racism isn't around - because most clear-thinking Americans know it is. The problem is that too many blacks use that card as their scapegoat and blame their problems on racism instead of jsut workign to better themselves and get past it. People like Jesse Jackson profit from making these claims, so the breed more hatred and create more problems in order to make a quick buck. If blacks would wake up and denounce him (I know some do, but there needs to be a movement against his hate), it would help quite a bit.
C) Women are BARELY at a disadvantage. I know it's a little OT (but, then again, this is the OT forum), but even some women will tell you that it's infrequent. When women take time off for pregnancy, they may miss a job opportunity or a promotion. This contributes GREATLY to the disparity in wages. At my work, all four of my bosses have been women, and many of my bosses' bosses have been women as well, and they're all paid quite nicely, I assure you. Again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it's very minimal now.
The more important point here is what women did once given the chance. They capitalized and made great strides in the workplace. There's discrimination there as well, but the women that I know have just dealt with it, not used it as an excuse for failure.
Hey, Amused, speaking of people who sling around the title "racist", then refuse to back up their accusations... did you get an apology? I didnt.
Amused
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The main problem with parts of AA is that it perpetuates the self loathing that blacks have. These issues only teach blacks that they cannot succeed unless they have an unfair leg up given to them by the government. AA and welfare have returned the black community to slavery. Only now, they are slaves to poverty and the myth that they need unfair advantages to succeed.
Amused
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A very good article by a black man who gets it right:
http://www.csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/aol/2004/0720/p09s01-coop.html
He takes a while to get there, but when he does, he cuts straight to the heart of the matter:
When a young black person fails to earn a high school diploma, cannot speak standard English, has gold designer teeth, and adopts prison-style clothing, that person is actively working to guarantee that employability and economic security elude him.
Misguided people like this are foiled by their own ignorance, inarticulateness, and aberrant appearance. They're not upholding some venerable inner-city culture, but are working hand in glove with racism and discrimination to secure their place on the margins of life. Moreover, the black community has become comfortable with such terms as "my baby's Mama" and "my baby's Daddy," and is more alarmed at the prospect of same-sex marriage than at the fact that as many as 70 percent of black American children are born outside the bonds of matrimony.
http://www.csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/aol/2004/0720/p09s01-coop.html
He takes a while to get there, but when he does, he cuts straight to the heart of the matter:
When a young black person fails to earn a high school diploma, cannot speak standard English, has gold designer teeth, and adopts prison-style clothing, that person is actively working to guarantee that employability and economic security elude him.
Misguided people like this are foiled by their own ignorance, inarticulateness, and aberrant appearance. They're not upholding some venerable inner-city culture, but are working hand in glove with racism and discrimination to secure their place on the margins of life. Moreover, the black community has become comfortable with such terms as "my baby's Mama" and "my baby's Daddy," and is more alarmed at the prospect of same-sex marriage than at the fact that as many as 70 percent of black American children are born outside the bonds of matrimony.
that's meaningless. you need to compare percentages in the prison population to percentages of total population.
personally i think we do have some damaging negative stereotypes that can create self-fufilling prophecies. but those stereotypes perpetuate themselves because black men DO commit more crimes per capita than other races. if they can break out of the cycle they allow themselves to be put in, where the culture glamorizes crime and they don't see any alternative for their future, then the stereotypes will quickly erode.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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because black men DO commit more crimes per capita than other races.
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Sounds to me they get caught more. Have to be caught to make the stats no? No way I believe they break the law any more or less than whites or any other race. Then prosecution is another story where poor poeple don't stand a chance in our courts compared to those with means to plea and/or really defend. IE whites and OJ.
Difference is, i think, I have FOP stickers on my cars and truck so they let me walk usually
edit spelling is horrendous this moring.
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Sounds to me they get caught more. Have to be caught to make the stats no? No way I believe they break the law any more or less than whites or any other race. Then prosecution is another story where poor poeple don't stand a chance in our courts compared to those with means to plea and/or really defend. IE whites and OJ.
Difference is, i think, I have FOP stickers on my cars and truck so they let me walk usually
edit spelling is horrendous this moring.
- Feb 1, 2003
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3chordcharlie
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There's no conclusive evidence about this - the most likely current reality is that black people both commit more crime per cpaita, AND are prosecuted and convicted at a higher rate than is justified by the larger base-rate for committing crime. Ergo the system has problems, but so does the black community.
Edit: And by 'no conclusive evidence' I mean only that there is no way to be certain all crime are reported equally in all communities; there actually isn't much doubt that black people currently commit more than their 'fair share' of some types of crime, and are also disproportionately prosecuted for doing so.
White, teenaged, male high schoolers with pipe bombs and automatic weapons scare the crap out of me...
Why are all black men always portrayed as criminals?
The same reason asian men are always portrayed as martial artists and geeks!
Stereotypes are not indicative of all members of a population, but they are often based in truth.
The same reason asian men are always portrayed as martial artists and geeks!
Stereotypes are not indicative of all members of a population, but they are often based in truth.
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