XP-90 w/ 80mm fan or Freezer Pro 64?

[Navid]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Um...you can mount a 92mm fan on the XP-90 also; you are not restricted to 80mm

That may be true. The question is, how will it cool at the same noise level?

I personally have no experience with either. The reason I have ordered the freezer is the good reviews on it and that it mounts the same as the stock AMD cooler does. So, I will not need to get a back plate for my motherboard for it. Also, it comes with the fan. So, I don't have to pay more for a fan.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Um...you can mount a 92mm fan on the XP-90 also; you are not restricted to 80mm

Did you not read the OP?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Howard
I believe the FP64 performs better than the XP-90 at equivalent noise levels, but I'm not too sure.

Then Howard states-- Either my English skills are poor, or you just can't comprehend what I'm saying. Fan noise does have something to do with how a fan cools the CPU.

Let's assume that the F64P is the same as the XP-90 (it's difficult to measure how readily each heat sink increases in performance as airflow increases and vice versa). The 92mm fan on the F64P will obviously flow more than the 80mm fan at the same noise level. Therefore the F64P will perform better at the same noise level. However, if you increase the flow of the 80mm fan on the XP-90 to above the levels of the 92mm fan on the F64P, then the XP-90 will perform better. But since the 80mm fan produces more noise for any given level of flow than the 92mm, it will sound louder... significantly louder.

You may be wondering why I keep saying "at the same noise level". If you don't constrain yourself to some sort of measure, how can you compare the two coolers at all?
What does equivelant noise levels have to do with cooling???

Or did yuo mean to say with identical fans.....etc..etc

I never knew that if a fan was noisy verses a fan that is quiet the noisy fan wouldn`t cool as well....hmmmmmm

OK, let's see you try to compare an FP64P with an XP-90 /w 80mm fan.

... What fan does the XP-90 use? With a fan that produces about as much noise as the FP64P at 100%, the FP64P will probably win. But if you put a Delta TFB0812UHE on the XP-90, it would definitely perform better, and sound like a hurricane while doing so.

Ok...so you admit that fan NOISE has nothing to do with how a fan cools the CPU!!
Thast what I thought!! Thx

Cooling is done by a cooler (heat sink + fan). You can place an identical fan (if possible) on two sinks and they do not necessarily perform the same or sound the same. An efficient sink makes much better heat transfer and this has nothing to do with the fan. A fan is an important part of a cooler, but it is not the only part.

Some sinks allow the fan to be installed sort of inside the sink (Zalman) so the centrifugal effect is taken advantage of. Then, the same fan cools better.
Some coolers have the fan mounted with flexible material (Freezer) to provide noise dampening. Then, the same fan will be quieter.
Some sinks resonate because of their structure. Then, the same fan will be noisier.

It makes sense to compare the cooling performance of coolers at the same noise level since there is a trade off between low noise and cooling and these are the two qualities of coolers that matter to most.
Alternatively, you can compare the noise of two coolers at the same cooling level.

*************************************************
You are so totaly wrong!!
There is no trade off between noise and cooling!!

How noisy a fan is does not equate to how well a fan cools!!
Thats just not scientific or logical!!

You might be able to say that a noisy fan appears to possibly be not as efficient at cooling-- but still I see no links proving that out.

Most people don`t change fans due to them not working properly!
Most people change fans at least on these forums becuase they don`t wan`t all the noise that is associated with some brands of fans!!

You attempt to talk as if you know what you are talking about.
But the facts are how noisy a fan is only relates to the noise issue.

How much air a fan pushes many times effects the cooling capacity of a given heatsink.
Yet we also know that anything over between 40cfm and - 50 cfm you start to see deminishing returns infact you will see no better temps from the fan that is on the heatsink.

I wish somebody could tell me what part NOISE has in cooling a partcular CPU?
The only part noise plays is just that......damn that fan is noisr or...damn that fan is quiet.

It is absursd and quite frankly not intelliegnt to assume to becuase a fan is noisy it doesn`t perform as well or cool as well as other fans.

YES-- we can ssume that becuase a fan is noisy it might not be built as well , due to the use of different bearings and all but to say that your cooling is affected becuase of noise is just plain ludicrous!!

Have a nice day!!

 

[Navid]

You can use a fan controller to control the voltage across a fan. This lets you control the RPM (revolution speed) of the fan. Then, you can reduce the speed, which in turn reduces the noise.
But, reducing the RPM of the fan also reduces its cooling. That is what I mean by trade-off.
An increase in fan RPM improves cooling but increases noise.
A decrease in fan RPM reduces noise but degrades cooling.

Back to what Howard was saying, the point is that if you have a cheap heat sink, you may need a lot more air flow to achieve the same cooling compared to a better heat sink (same cooling, different noise).

If you are a noise fanatic, on the other hand, you will run the fan at low RPM. Then, your system with the cheap sink runs hotter than the one with the good sink (same noise, different temperatures).

Life is too short. Don't get too excited.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Howard
I believe the FP64 performs better than the XP-90 at equivalent noise levels, but I'm not too sure.

Then Howard states-- Either my English skills are poor, or you just can't comprehend what I'm saying. Fan noise does have something to do with how a fan cools the CPU.

Let's assume that the F64P is the same as the XP-90 (it's difficult to measure how readily each heat sink increases in performance as airflow increases and vice versa). The 92mm fan on the F64P will obviously flow more than the 80mm fan at the same noise level. Therefore the F64P will perform better at the same noise level. However, if you increase the flow of the 80mm fan on the XP-90 to above the levels of the 92mm fan on the F64P, then the XP-90 will perform better. But since the 80mm fan produces more noise for any given level of flow than the 92mm, it will sound louder... significantly louder.

You may be wondering why I keep saying "at the same noise level". If you don't constrain yourself to some sort of measure, how can you compare the two coolers at all?
What does equivelant noise levels have to do with cooling???

Or did yuo mean to say with identical fans.....etc..etc

I never knew that if a fan was noisy verses a fan that is quiet the noisy fan wouldn`t cool as well....hmmmmmm

OK, let's see you try to compare an FP64P with an XP-90 /w 80mm fan.

... What fan does the XP-90 use? With a fan that produces about as much noise as the FP64P at 100%, the FP64P will probably win. But if you put a Delta TFB0812UHE on the XP-90, it would definitely perform better, and sound like a hurricane while doing so.

Ok...so you admit that fan NOISE has nothing to do with how a fan cools the CPU!!
Thast what I thought!! Thx

Cooling is done by a cooler (heat sink + fan). You can place an identical fan (if possible) on two sinks and they do not necessarily perform the same or sound the same. An efficient sink makes much better heat transfer and this has nothing to do with the fan. A fan is an important part of a cooler, but it is not the only part.

Some sinks allow the fan to be installed sort of inside the sink (Zalman) so the centrifugal effect is taken advantage of. Then, the same fan cools better.
Some coolers have the fan mounted with flexible material (Freezer) to provide noise dampening. Then, the same fan will be quieter.
Some sinks resonate because of their structure. Then, the same fan will be noisier.

It makes sense to compare the cooling performance of coolers at the same noise level since there is a trade off between low noise and cooling and these are the two qualities of coolers that matter to most.
Alternatively, you can compare the noise of two coolers at the same cooling level.

*************************************************
You are so totaly wrong!!
There is no trade off between noise and cooling!!

How noisy a fan is does not equate to how well a fan cools!!
Thats just not scientific or logical!!

You might be able to say that a noisy fan appears to possibly be not as efficient at cooling-- but still I see no links proving that out.

Most people don`t change fans due to them not working properly!
Most people change fans at least on these forums becuase they don`t wan`t all the noise that is associated with some brands of fans!!

You attempt to talk as if you know what you are talking about.
But the facts are how noisy a fan is only relates to the noise issue.

How much air a fan pushes many times effects the cooling capacity of a given heatsink.
Yet we also know that anything over between 40cfm and - 50 cfm you start to see deminishing returns infact you will see no better temps from the fan that is on the heatsink.

I wish somebody could tell me what part NOISE has in cooling a partcular CPU?
The only part noise plays is just that......damn that fan is noisr or...damn that fan is quiet.

It is absursd and quite frankly not intelliegnt to assume to becuase a fan is noisy it doesn`t perform as well or cool as well as other fans.

YES-- we can ssume that becuase a fan is noisy it might not be built as well , due to the use of different bearings and all but to say that your cooling is affected becuase of noise is just plain ludicrous!!

Have a nice day!!

Arteries popping in your forehead yet? Given the same equipment in the same environment, cooling ability is proportional to noise.

Tell me something. Given that you had two HSF test setups with an SI-120 on each, and a different 120mm fan on each SI-120: if one of the fans produced 50dB (relative to the [low] ambient SPL) while spinning, and the other fan produced 30dB, which setup do you think would report the lower temperatures? Keep in mind that you don't know what brand/model the fans are - the only thing you know is the SPL.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Arteries popping in your forehead yet? Given the same equipment in the same environment, cooling ability is proportional to noise.

Tell me something. Given that you had two HSF test setups with an SI-120 on each, and a different 120mm fan on each SI-120: if one of the fans produced 50dB (relative to the [low] ambient SPL) while spinning, and the other fan produced 30dB, which setup do you think would report the lower temperatures? Keep in mind that you don't know what brand/model the fans are - the only thing you know is the SPL.

The above is totally different....

I even said so in my post!!

Noise has nothing whatsoever to do with cooling!!!

Show me a link that say a certain fan was noisy..thus it did not cool as well.

You can`t!!

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Arteries popping in your forehead yet? Given the same equipment in the same environment, cooling ability is proportional to noise.

Tell me something. Given that you had two HSF test setups with an SI-120 on each, and a different 120mm fan on each SI-120: if one of the fans produced 50dB (relative to the [low] ambient SPL) while spinning, and the other fan produced 30dB, which setup do you think would report the lower temperatures? Keep in mind that you don't know what brand/model the fans are - the only thing you know is the SPL.

The above is totally different....

I even said so in my post!!

Noise has nothing whatsoever to do with cooling!!!

Show me a link that say a certain fan was noisy..thus it did not cool as well.

You can`t!!

I'm saying that noisier fans generally cool better.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So let make sure I am getting this correct...
Mind you this is just for discussions sake...

Say I have 2 fans both different brands but both have the exact same CFM.
One of the 2 fans is alot louder than the other fan.
So If I am correct then what you are telling me is that if I were to put those fans one at a time on the same heatsink.
That the louder of the 2 fans would not cool as well.
Plus if I were to measure the temps - that the louder fan would not be as effective because it is louder.....hmmmmmm
I don`t believe there has ever been any proof to substantiate the above statement!

If I am wrong plz enlighten me.....thx

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Say I have 2 fans both different brands but both have the exact same CFM.

In my opinion, same CFM mounted tha same way on the same heat sink will give you same cooling. I hope I never said otherwise!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Say I have 2 fans both different brands but both have the exact same CFM.

In my opinion, same CFM mounted tha same way on the same heat sink will give you same cooling. I hope I never said otherwise!

Thats also my opinion...but...

If you read closely some peeps are saying that the noise the fan makes also has something to do with cooling---which just is NOT true!!
A noisy fan will cool just as well as a quiet fan...given the exact same specs except for dba......the only difference will be that one fan is louder than the other...duh...lol

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
So let make sure I am getting this correct...
Mind you this is just for discussions sake...

Say I have 2 fans both different brands but both have the exact same CFM.
One of the 2 fans is alot louder than the other fan.
So If I am correct then what you are telling me is that if I were to put those fans one at a time on the same heatsink.
That the louder of the 2 fans would not cool as well.
Plus if I were to measure the temps - that the louder fan would not be as effective because it is louder.....hmmmmmm
I don`t believe there has ever been any proof to substantiate the above statement!

If I am wrong plz enlighten me.....thx

Ah, herein lies the confusion. I'm saying that the louder fan will generally perform BETTER than the quieter fan, because the higher noise level is probably due to a higher RPM, which in turn means a higher flow rate.

Sorry for the confusion, though I don't see where in my posts you could have read the opposite of what I had intended.

EDIT: Oh, I didn't notice where you specified that they flowed the same CFM. In that case, they would probably perform equally as well, depending on the impedance of the HS fins, and I would obviously choose the quieter one.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Navid
In my opinion, same CFM mounted tha same way on the same heat sink will give you same cooling.

I think there can be other variables that affect cooling. Example that I've personally observed:

Same heatsink (think it was a Thermalright SLK800 or something, 80mm fan with alu fins and copper core).

One fan was a YS Tech with high rated CFM. Fan blades were rounded. Really did put out lots of air but air was more "cone" shaped based on how it felt holding my hand in front of fan running in free air. Also strangely air seemed to blow more on one side than the rest of the "cone."

Second fan was a Panaflo 12m with lower rated CFM. Fan blades were shaped different, ending in sharp points. Holding my hand in front of it, felt like it was moving less air (and at lower noise) than the YS Tech which really moved the air. However, the Panaflo seemed to push more air straight rather than outwards in a cone shape, plus airflow was more even.

Panaflo beat the YS Tech by around 3-5ºC lower temperatures at lower noise levels, even though YS Tech did move more air.

Testing as a case exhaust fan the YS Tech did move more air than the Panaflo, though I didn't take temps. So, YS Tech fan stayed as case fan and Panaflo stayed as CPU fan.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Navid
In my opinion, same CFM mounted tha same way on the same heat sink will give you same cooling.

I think there can be other variables that affect cooling. Example that I've personally observed:

Same heatsink (think it was a Thermalright SLK800 or something, 80mm fan with alu fins and copper core).

One fan was a YS Tech with high rated CFM. Fan blades were rounded. Really did put out lots of air but air was more "cone" shaped based on how it felt holding my hand in front of fan running in free air. Also strangely air seemed to blow more on one side than the rest of the "cone."

Second fan was a Panaflo 12m with lower rated CFM. Fan blades were shaped different, ending in sharp points. Holding my hand in front of it, felt like it was moving less air (and at lower noise) than the YS Tech which really moved the air. However, the Panaflo seemed to push more air straight rather than outwards in a cone shape, plus airflow was more even.

Panaflo beat the YS Tech by around 3-5ºC lower temperatures at lower noise levels, even though YS Tech did move more air.

Testing as a case exhaust fan the YS Tech did move more air than the Panaflo, though I didn't take temps. So, YS Tech fan stayed as case fan and Panaflo stayed as CPU fan.

Interesting. I had never considered the flow pattern before... adds a whole new dimension of complexity to thorough and accurate fan testing. 🙁 😀

 

[JEDIYoda]

thx for the clarification!!
YES...there are so many fans on the maket...
what with different blade shapes and even differing amount of blades...
also you have different types of bearings and such...

I do agree with you on the direction and which manner the air is pushed in does make a difference.....providing everything is not equal.

Anyways all good discussions!!🙂