XFX loses lawsuit for bait n switch operation

[T_Yamamoto]

Most people dont care.

I think it was the price. Since this card was ~600. He wanted a 600$ equivalent card?

But if he was to sell that card in 09. He wouldn't have been able to sell it at the original price. Or Anything close for that matter.

 

[taltamir]

how was he being unreasonable? he was doing what was in his self interest. the new card wouldn't have meshed up with the watercooling he had and he would have been out of pocked upgrading that kit

1. He only mentioned his watercooling and SLI situation after I had made my post.

2. The replacement card was superior in every single way including resale value.

Remaking his SLI / water-cooling solution (something he had to do regardless) was not going to cost him more, it was going to take some time but he would have turned a profit as a result.

He could have either sold the remaining 8800 and gotten a second GTX260, costs more but he gets superior setup.
Or he could have sold the GTX260, bought a replacement 8800, and pocketed the difference.

3. A murderer or a rapist is also acting in their self interest. Acting in your own self interest is not what makes one reasonable. (to make it clear, I am not comparing him to such criminals. I am merely refuting your statement that reasonable = self interest)

 

[Ferzerp]

1. He only mentioned his watercooling and SLI situation after I had made my post.

2. The replacement card was superior in every single way including resale value.

Remaking his SLI / water-cooling solution (something he had to do regardless) was not going to cost him more, it was going to take some time but he would have turned a profit as a result.

He could have either sold the remaining 8800 and gotten a second GTX260, costs more but he gets superior setup.
Or he could have sold the GTX260, bought a replacement 8800, and pocketed the difference.
.

Doesn't make a bit of difference. If you promise to give me X, and I want X, and we have a contract that you provide me with X (and specifically X), if you give me Y without my agreeing to any sort of contract amendment, regardless of whether or not Y is better than X, legally, you're in an actionable situation.

 

[guskline]

Doesn't make a bit of difference. If you promise to give me X, and I want X, and we have a contract that you provide me with X, if you give me Y without my agreeing to any sort of contract amendment, regardless of whether or not Y is better than X, legally, you're in an actionable situation.

Someone studied law?

 

[3DVagabond]

Cry me a river. Its unrealistic for a company to keep backstock on super old SKUs especially when they did not deal with nvidia anymore, i'm still not on your side on this.

This is actually a fairly new phenomenon. You realize you can still by parts from Ford for a 1940's engine. It's not because they still work with the current models, either. There was a time that companies legally had to maintain spares for an Item for a time that they would reasonably be needed. If you have a washing machine that is 2 or 3 years old and you can't get it repaired, the company will be in legal trouble (In most places in the world.). Unless the trouble with the card was specifically the GPU they could have likely easily found a spare part to repair the card. That's not the way these companies work today. They want you to throw stuff away and buy another one from them, instead.

Each time the OP posts there's more added. So, now we have an SLI setup that would no longer work with the replacement card.

In a situation like this, I think XFX should have tried to work out an acceptable solution for the OP. Unless there's more info to come, which with this OP is very likely , I can understand the judge finding in the OP's behalf.

Lifetime warranties are very complex legally.

 

[ViRGE]

The cost of one card over the other or the performance of one over the other or the architecture of one vs the other has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

Ultimately it should. The problem is that what you wanted would be impossible to provide. Most failed high-end video cards can't be repaired (it's typically a GPU failure) and it would be impossible to replace an 8800U in 2009. The 8800U was produced in such low numbers that the typical reserve ratio for RMA purposes for a company the size of XFX would have only been 1-2 cards, and with so few cards they may not have kept any in reserve at all.

I totally understand why you wanted another 8800U. But if you buy something that rare, you're going to have to deal with the fact that replacements will be equally rare. There's nothing XFX could have done to make you whole again. The best they could have done is to get you a pair of 260s.

 

[Ferzerp]

The problem is that what you wanted would be impossible to provide

I think more the problem is that XFX agreed to provide something that when the time came, they could not, wouldn't you?

 

[ViRGE]

I think more the problem is that XFX agreed to provide something that when the time came, they could not, wouldn't you?

Eh, not really. So long as XFX put away a reserve stock then they took all reasonable and necessary measures. If they had such a stockpile and it was exhausted, then the fact that more 8800Us failed than NVIDIA predicted is not something that can reasonably be prepared for.

It would be nice if they were able to make him whole, but there's only so much you can do with a product that rare. XFX's only real failing here is that they should have offered another GTX 260, though from the OP's posts it's not entirely clear if that happened or not.

 

[HurleyBird]

OP, can you provide a link to the original warranty that states that they need to send you the exact same card?

 

[arkcom]

OP, can you provide a link to the original warranty that states that they need to send you the exact same card?

I've already asked for one. He doesn't wish to prove he was wronged.

 

[Ferzerp]

Eh, not really. So long as XFX put away a reserve stock then they took all reasonable and necessary measures. If they had such a stockpile and it was exhausted, then the fact that more 8800Us failed than NVIDIA predicted is not something that can reasonably be prepared for.

It would be nice if they were able to make him whole, but there's only so much you can do with a product that rare. XFX's only real failing here is that they should have offered another GTX 260, though from the OP's posts it's not entirely clear if that happened or not.

The rarity of the part doesn't really excuse them from their contractual obligations. At minimum, if an agreement can't be made, he should get a refund (which it appears he did). I can't really grasp why you're making the argument that breaching the contract is ok because the part was hard/impossible to source.

 

[SickBeast]

TBH both the OP and XFX are in the wrong for not being able to settle this out of court. Both sides were obviously difficult and they should have reached a reasonable compromise, like a more powerful single card or else a pair of 260s.

 

[taltamir]

Doesn't make a bit of difference. If you promise to give me X, and I want X, and we have a contract that you provide me with X (and specifically X), if you give me Y without my agreeing to any sort of contract amendment, regardless of whether or not Y is better than X, legally, you're in an actionable situation.

Which part of "I think he was being unreasonable in refusing a free upgrade (trying to fish for even more profit), but then they committed fraud and he was legally in the right" did you not understand when you wrote this?

 

[GluteusMaximus]

The best they could have done is to get you a pair of 260s.

I might have accepted two water cooled 260's (216 core) or two air cooled 280's and given my good 8800Ultra back to them so they could use it for some other RMA. That would have been a better deal, for them and myself, than for XFX to issue a full refund of $750.00 They would have still earned a profit while keeping a loyal customer.

Outside of that, I'd rather have had my water cooled 8800ultra back. It over clocked well and scaled wonderfully in SLI configuration. Plus, I already had the water blocks for them.

They insisted that they had fulfilled their obligations according to the (new)warranty and washed their hands of it. I got so sick of the run around that I knew the only way to get their attention would be a lawsuit. Given the opportunity to find some compromise, they refused to even consider the matter.

@arkcom and HurlyBird...

XFX pulled the copy of the original warranty from their website. If you look up the current warranty for the 8800Ultra, you'll see that the warranty they now provide has descriptions of graphic cards that didn't exist when the 8800Ultra was being sold. They deliberately pulled the original warranty from their website and put in its place a document that serves to benefit XFX financially. That is the document that they tried to pass off as being original during trial.

The relevant portion of the original warranty is:

"XFX's liability under the Double Lifetime Protection is limited to the repair, or, at XFX's discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship."

 

[blackened23]

I might have accepted two water cooled 260's (216 core) or two air cooled 280's and given my good 8800Ultra back to them so they could use it for some other RMA.

lol

 

[SickBeast]

I might have accepted two water cooled 260's (216 core) or two air cooled 280's and given my good 8800Ultra back to them so they could use it for some other RMA.

See now you're being unreasonable and this attitude is why you wound up in court. I can only imagine how your phone calls went with XFX.

Was your 8800GTX water cooled?

A pair of 260s would have been more than fair.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

A pair of 260s would have been more than fair.

I'd rather have my water cooled 685mhz 8800Ultra's than two air cooled 260's, any day.

btw, I didn't "end up in court", they did. I was at home on the telephone.

 

[arkcom]

The relevant portion of the original warranty is:

"XFX's liability under the Double Lifetime Protection is limited to the repair, or, at XFX's discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship."

Where does that say "identical replacement"?

 

[SickBeast]

I'd rather have my water cooled 685mhz 8800Ultra's than two air cooled 260's, any day.

btw, I didn't "end up in court", they did. I was at home on the telephone.

You both did.

I don't know what to tell you. You got your money. I just really think that there should have been a better way to resolve this. I can't really blame you either because I wasn't there; I don't know the ins and outs of what went down. You do come across as somewhat fussy/unreasonable though, saying you wouldn't even have taken a pair of 260s.

 

[Ferzerp]

Where does that say "identical replacement"?

The guy won his case. Are you really trying to argue the interpretation of the warranty?

 

[HurleyBird]

"XFX's liability under the Double Lifetime Protection is limited to the repair, or, at XFX's discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship."

And that's completely open to interpretation. It doesn't explicitly state that they cannot send you a superior replacement card, but it doesn't explicitly state that they can either. The only thing that XFX is guilty of seems to be ambiguous wording. At the time I guess they didn't suspect that people like you existed

The guy won his case. Are you really trying to argue the interpretation of the warranty?

Based on the quoted passage, you're probably looking at a 50/50 chance for any given court to interpret the warranty either way.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

You do come across as somewhat fussy/unreasonable though, saying you wouldn't even have taken a pair of 260s.

Two air cooled 260's were inferior to two water cooled 8800's. It would have been a downgrade.

 

[SickBeast]

Two air cooled 260's were inferior to two water cooled 8800's. It would have been a downgrade.

I disagree, and even if it was 10% slower sometimes you need to take your lumps. It's called being reasonable.

 

[blackened23]

I'd rather have my water cooled 685mhz 8800Ultra's than two air cooled 260's, any day.

btw, I didn't "end up in court", they did. I was at home on the telephone.

You certainly seem intent on boasting non stop about this, truth is corporations probably have to deal with small claims from people like you all the time. Most of the time they don't show and i'd imagine you'd have to do a real lawsuit for non payment of a small claim in that event. I think you are ridiculous for reasons already outlined.

But its nice to know XFX could have pleased you with 2 280s.

 

[arkcom]

The guy won his case. Are you really trying to argue the interpretation of the warranty?

Did xfx even show up in court? I can't tell from the op.