XFX loses lawsuit for bait n switch operation

[.Root]

Lawsuits make the world go round

 

[Imp]

The cost of one card over the other or the performance of one over the other or the architecture of one vs the other has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

Well that's because you're taking a literal, take no prisoners approach and interpretation to the warranty and ignoring everything else.

I'm more curious as to what your approach was when making your RMA claim. You took them to small claims court, then came to a forum, and started a new account to brag...

 

[GluteusMaximus]

I'm more curious as to what your approach was when making your RMA claim.

My approach was to send in my defective card and receive a repaired card or replacement according to our contractual terms that they made money from. I don't think that's asking too much of them.

 

[blackened23]

My approach was to send in my defective card and receive a repaired card or replacement according to our contractual terms that they made money from. I don't think that's asking too much of them.

The warranty doesn't state that they're required to replace it with the absolute same card or SKU. It is actually pretty common to replace old cards with upgrades, eventually this practice cost too much and that is why lifetime warranties are a thing of the past.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

The warranty doesn't state that they're required to replace it with the absolute same card or SKU.

The warranty stated exactly, in legal language, what their choices in remedy were.

 

[taltamir]

The warranty doesn't state that they're required to replace it with the absolute same card or SKU.

Actually it DID, that is why he WON the case. As he said, they CHANGED that to clarify that they MAY give out an equivalent/upgrade. But he bought that card before they made that changed, so he got it under the old warranty which required them to give an exact replacement or a refund (court ruled for him to get the refund for 585$). If you buy a card today from XFX then the warranty will include allotment for them to send you an upgrade rather then an exact replacement or a refund.

He was using the letter of a poorly written contract to squeeze them, while morally objectionable it was legally within his rights; but not something one should take pride of.

Calling them a bait and switch operation is absurd though. Bait and switch is when 1st revision is high quality, gets reviewed (the bait), and then they stop production and release a second revision which is cheap quality under the same name (the switch).

Warranty is not related to bait and switch.

 

[blackened23]

Actually it DID, that is why he WON the case. As he said, they CHANGED that to clarify that they MAY give out an equivalent/upgrade. But he bought that card before they made that changed, so he got it under the old warranty which required them to give an exact replacement or a refund (court ruled for him to get the refund for 585$). If you buy a card today from XFX then the warranty will include allotment for them to send you an upgrade rather then an exact replacement or a refund.

He was using the letter of a poorly written contract to squeeze them, while morally objectionable it was legally within his rights; but not something one should take pride of.

Calling them a bait and switch operation is absurd though. Bait and switch is when 1st revision is high quality, gets reviewed (the bait), and then they stop production and release a second revision which is cheap quality under the same name (the switch).

Warranty is not related to bait and switch.

I see. Wasn't aware of that being stated explicitly.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

...Bait and switch is when 1st revision is high quality, gets reviewed (the original warranty), and then they stop production and release a second revision which is cheap quality under the same name (the new warranty).

Fixed

 

[MrK6]

I disagree, they knew the terms of their warranty and failed to honor it. I do not understand your rage against the OP. Is it really wrong for him to expect them to honor a warranty that THEY WROTE?

You all are funny people. Just because he got a 260 does not mean that he should have to settle for it. They promised him in writing they would replace his card.

If they were smart they would have offered him two brand new 460s and cut a deal with him. Instead it sounds like they tried to strong arm him into a used card. I am glad he won his case - because he was in the right.

There's no rage. I made a true and simple statement (as did others). Why are you so upset?

 

[arkcom]

Do you have a copy of this contract that no one has ever heard of?

You didn't seem to mind using the 260 for a few years till you needed an upgrade.

 

[arkcom]

460s weren't even out in 2009.

I disagree, they knew the terms of their warranty and failed to honor it. I do not understand your rage against the OP. Is it really wrong for him to expect them to honor a warranty that THEY WROTE?

You all are funny people. Just because he got a 260 does not mean that he should have to settle for it. They promised him in writing they would replace his card.

If they were smart they would have offered him two brand new 460s and cut a deal with him. Instead it sounds like they tried to strong arm him into a used card. I am glad he won his case - because he was in the right.

 

[Qbah]

I don't get it... they offered you a faster and more efficient card as replacement. Who cares that it was cheaper? You wouldn't spend anything for it anyway... And you'd have a noticeably better gaming experience with the replacement, for free...

The price of a card is meaningless anyway, because the moment you buy it, it already looses its value.

 

[Destiny]

My approach was to send in my defective card and receive a repaired card or replacement according to our contractual terms that they made money from. I don't think that's asking too much of them.

The warranty stated exactly, in legal language, what their choices in remedy were.

Okay... prefectly understandable... Kudos for you winning the case :thumbsup:... @OP, please be clearer with the situation and clearer with your title - ATOT members can be brutal... trust me, I got raged over for finding out that my CPU was not defective but due to misleading printing on mobo box (I needed to update the BIOS, but box stated it supports PCI-E 3.0/Ivy Bridge out of the box)..

Then this thread should be XFS screwing up their warranty and customer service.

Its XFS' fault for not understanding or properly writing their warranty contracts for the their product in the past.

That is why electronics company maybe re-writing or re-stating their warranty services. As far as I know "Lifetime Warranty" applies to life of the product (product life) or life of the company (never a human's life). Also they can repair it or replace it with an equal or better product - but it does not have to be new (it doesn't have to be the same product)...

 

[taltamir]

I don't get it... they offered you a faster and more efficient card as replacement.

Whats there not to get? He noticed that he can shaft them over a technicality for nearly 600$, so he did.
Its that simple. Story over.

Fixed

No, not fixed.
Modifying a legally binding document (the warranty) without the consent of both parties for the purpose of gain is fraud, not bait-and-switch (which is a type of fraud).
all bait and switch is fraud, not all fraud is bait and switch.

XFX real mistake was where they tried to commit fraud. (according to your story, I believe 2 separate and different types of fraud supposedly committed by their "customer support" according to your story)

It only triggered because you were being unreasonable and exploitative... but they shouldn't have responded with fraud attempts. And in retrospect the fact that they did means you deserved to win and be proud of it.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

Do you have a copy of this contract that no one has ever heard of?

Yes, and so does the Judge.

You didn't seem to mind using the 260 for a few years till you needed an upgrade.

I didn't use the 260. I had no water block for it plus it exhausts out the rear, which would have heated my radiator, plus it doesn't play well with the other 8800 Ultra in SLI. It was completely useless to me.

 

[Bman123]

The 8800ultra was super expensive when it came out. If he bought it at the new price and got a card back that was hundreds of dollars cheaper then yeah I would be pissed too.

Kudos to you sir, I sued pizza hut this year and won also. Good job

 

[Qbah]

(...) I didn't use the 260. I had no water block for it plus it exhausts out the rear, which would have heated my radiator, plus it doesn't play well with the other 8800 Ultra in SLI. It was completely useless to me.

You could have mentioned that a bit earlier, you know... It kinda changes the picture... It didn't matter for you that the replacement card was faster, because you were running SLI and needed an exact same one.

All a matter of perspective and I understand now why you needed an exact same model.

 

[arkcom]

Yes, and so does the Judge.

Show us a copy.

I didn't use the 260. I had no water block for it plus it exhausts out the rear, which would have heated my radiator, plus it doesn't play well with the other 8800 Ultra in SLI. It was completely useless to me.

And yet you sat on it for 2-3 years without doing anything about it.

 

[GluteusMaximus]

Show us a copy.

Go find one.

And yet you sat on it for 2-3 years without doing anything about it.

No, I went round and round on the telephone with them. I went round and round with them through the BBB complaint system. I went round and round with them through their online RMA Ticket system, I contacted their company officers through their address registered with the Secretary of State..., I even sent them an Intent To Sue letter.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

Go find one.


No, I went round and round on the telephone with them. I went round and round with them through the BBB complaint system. I went round and round with them through their online RMA Ticket system, I contacted their company officers through their address registered with the Secretary of State..., I even sent them an Intent To Sue letter.

You're being a complete butt hole fyi. Lol.

No wonder everyone is pulling their lifetime warranties

 

[tommo123]

Whats there not to get? He noticed that he can shaft them over a technicality for nearly 600$, so he did.
Its that simple. Story over.



No, not fixed.
Modifying a legally binding document (the warranty) without the consent of both parties for the purpose of gain is fraud, not bait-and-switch (which is a type of fraud).
all bait and switch is fraud, not all fraud is bait and switch.

XFX real mistake was where they tried to commit fraud. (according to your story, I believe 2 separate and different types of fraud supposedly committed by their "customer support" according to your story)

It only triggered because you were being unreasonable and exploitative... but they shouldn't have responded with fraud attempts. And in retrospect the fact that they did means you deserved to win and be proud of it.

how was he being unreasonable? he was doing what was in his self interest. the new card wouldn't have meshed up with the watercooling he had and he would have been out of pocked upgrading that kit. plus his other 8800 would have been useless (dont think you could SLI those 2 together) and he had every right to be pissed.

companies use the letter of your contracts to screw you all the time. what the hell is so wrong about him reversing this around and making them give what they promised in the 1st damn place.

honestly, some people on this forum seem to have a favourite hardware company and think they can do no wrong.

 

[tommo123]

You're being a complete butt hole fyi. Lol.

No wonder everyone is pulling their lifetime warranties

you mean the lifetime warranty he had but turned out to be fraudulent as they wouldn't honour it? what good is a warranty that isn't honoured? all that's changed is these companies are now showing what warranty you'll actually get as opposed to lying their asses off just to get you to buy their product but not actually delivering on their promise

 

[guskline]

I love how everyone throws around legal terms such as fraud or bait and switch and most likely don't have a clue as to what they really mean. GluteusMaximus is gloating but has a sound legal basis. In addition, when reading his specs (8800Ultras in SLI) one can understand why he went to the trouble he did. He should not be blamed for enforcing his legal rights. I wonder if XFX had offered him a new GTX 680 instead of a GTX 260 whether he would have settled ?

 

[Ferzerp]

Assuming that the OP has accurately represented the details of this matter, everyone trying to dogpile him is just being silly.

Regardless of whether or not what he got was better, they weren't legally allowed to make the substitution under the terms that the original card was sold to him (and apparently the court agreed with the OP).

Honestly, a lot of manufacturers play a rather fast and loose game with the "upgrades" they throw out in order to provide working product. If you bought a product, with warranty, for a specific application, and the warranty terms suggest that any replacement will be suitable for that specific application, regardless of whether or not the replacement is "better", should you object to the different product if it does not work in the original application, they're no longer acting in good faith to follow the binding agreement they had made.

Would I have gone as far as the OP? No, that amount isn't worth the trouble. Criticizing him for doing it though, is silly.

 

[guskline]

Assuming that the OP has accurately represented the details of this matter, everyone trying to dogpile him is just being silly.

Regardless of whether or not what he got was better, they weren't legally allowed to make the substitution under the terms that the original card was sold to him (and apparently the court agreed with the OP).

Honestly, a lot of manufacturers play a rather fast and loose game with the "upgrades" they throw out in order to provide working product. If you bought a product, with warranty, for a specific application, and the warranty terms suggest that any replacement will be suitable for that specific application, regardless of whether or not the replacement is "better", should you object to the different product if it does not work in the original application, they're no longer acting in good faith to follow the binding agreement they had made.

Would I have gone as far as the OP? No, that amount isn't worth the trouble. Criticizing him for doing it though, it silly.

I agree.